MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[FindHG]

I know. I didn't mean to sound harsh but it immediately reminded me of this case while reading. I guess I mixed up my causes of death but either way hard to imagine.


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Agreed, dear monster, I never doubted your intent. You've been a great help and impetus in every way both here and for Chelsea. Some things are tough to fathom and my heart breaks for what the loved ones continue to live with and have to heal from somehow in the absence of answers or justice, as it may take so long.

 

[Trojan1966]

Let's talk about the computers in the Turnquist household. LE has two of them but there seems to be some discrepancies concerning a possible third computer or often called a “missing” computer.

1. There was an older laptop computer (Computer #1) which usually stayed in the house and evidently was used by many people. When I visited them and stayed in their house, I would use it to primarily print my airline boarding pass as this computer was connected to their printer. This computer was there for many years even before Julia's murder. I believe that JT used this system for billing and scheduling of the cleaning business as well as financial records for this business for many years (just my opinion).
2. Just prior to Julia's murder, she and her sister had decided to get JT a new laptop computer (Computer #2) so he could use it for his cleaning business. Julia put this computer on layaway at the Walmart store she worked at. After her death, Walmart paid off the layaway and I believe Kim or Jennifer picked up all the items Julia had on layaway. This new laptop was then wrapped and given to JT as a Christmas present at their Christmas gathering. This unwrapping was done at JT's mother-in-law's house with plenty of witnesses there to this event.
3. In December 2014, LE had a search warrant for a computer that was in the Turnquist household. I am somewhat confused by what exactly happened that day as KT & JT say they "gave" the computer (Computer #1) to LE voluntarily. Either way, LE now had the computer and this is the one that was originally found on.
4. JT and KT "complained" to LE that he needed the computer back because it had his business information - financial, scheduling, etc. He said he would need the computer to do his income taxes too as it contained all his business financial documentation.
5. LE was not going to release this computer (Computer #1) as the computer forensics people were continuing to investigate the possible child . Because of this, I have been lead to believe that JT purchased a "new" laptop (Computer #3) to replace Computer #1. This purchase (Computer #3) would have been made after the December 2014 search warrant date and that would be very easy for LE to verify.
6. In February 2015, Monroe County presented a search warrant at the Turnquist home for all electronic devices. They seized a laptop computer, video camera, phones and possibly other devices.
7. Now, here’s the confusion factor…. Evidently this second computer seized had been purchased within the last few months prior to the February 2015 search warrant and after the December 2014 incident. Was this Computer #3? This is what we have been led to believe. If so, where is Computer #2 that was a gift for JT at Christmas 2012? My daughter has maintained that LE has all their computers. If this is true, and LE knows the age of the computers they have, then where is the computer given as a gift in December 2012? I’m sure LE already knows the age and date purchased of all the computers. Monroe County LE is not really talking and they seem to believe that there could be a “missing” computer (Computer #2).
Like anything else, time will tell. If you are now confused, imagine how I feel!

 

[Trojan1966]

As I stated earlier, I am totally confused concerning the computers. If there really is a missing computer I hope it will eventually be found. Maybe there is one and maybe there isn't. Anything that will assist LE's investigation into Julia's murder is what I really want. Again I ask that my daughter and JT start fully cooperating with Ypsilanti LE to help solve Julia's murder. I wish everyone would stop this feeling that this whole thing is a "game". I have lost a grand daughter that I loved so much and now all I really want is to find out exactly who and what really happened that terrible night. I know my children have been able to read all the posts on this site and I just hope and pray that this will be solved soon. I hope they realize that I am not "against" them but merely trying to push for true Justice for Julia. They are my children and my grand children and I will always love them.

 

[georgiasblu]

I had never heard of such of thing and as soon as I read it I thought of her case!! Not sure why anyone would sit on the chest except to not leave marks then put in bathroom so it looks "staged"? Like she passed out getting into the tub? Wonder if that's why the room was a bit tore up. The struggle?


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Wait, according to Aynias post above where she quotes Bessie, Julia was asphyxiated prior to being put into the bathtub.

 

[georgiasblu]

Why would an agency jeopardize their investigation into an unrelated case (at this point) in the eyes of the law and courts? Its obvious the two cases are being treated differently as Trojan is unable to gather any information regarding the case.

Applause. Thank you Psyquester. We have spent the last month or two dancing around the elephant in the room and I'm totally frustrated. I'm frustrated with JT who has the nerve to request people come forward to give information regarding Julia's murder when he himself won't cooperate. I'm frustrated with the Mother of this lovely girl who acts like a 15 year old in court. This is crazy. A young woman with promise was murdered. WTH is wrong with these people?

 

[monster12]

Wait, according to Aynias post above where she quotes Bessie, Julia was asphyxiated prior to being put into the bathtub.

With so many posts and everyone going back and forth, I couldn't remember what I read. When I did a news search it said asphyxiated prior to drowning which is why I thought of my post. I thought I read their wasn't evidence of an actual drowning. I've read so many posts over the months I can't remember what is supposed to be accurate so forgive me. Just wanted to post bc it caught my attention and never heard of it before.


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[bessie]

Wait, according to Aynias post above where she quotes Bessie, Julia was asphyxiated prior to being put into the bathtub.

Don't quote "bessie"; quote the Ypsilanti investigator, per the ME's report.

---

Yuhas said the medical examiner's report shows Niswender died as a result of asphyxiation associated with drowning, but he confirmed the asphyxiation occurred prior to her being placed in the bathtub...

"We don't know how she was asphyxiated," Yuhas said, after indicating it could have been done in a number of ways.

[...]
According to the Mayo Clinic, vasovagal syncope, one of the most common causes of fainting, occurs when a person's body overreacts to certain triggers, such as the sight of blood or extreme emotional distress.

The trigger causes a sudden drop in an individual's heart rate and blood pressure, leading to a reduced blood flow to the brain, which results in a brief loss of consciousness.

Yuhas said investigators were aware of the medical condition, which was ruled out as a cause of death.

"It has absolutely been ruled out," Yuhas said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender.html

 

[4ist]

That sounds horrible, I wish I had never seen that, in the context of Julia, as there is no way to know and it seems gratuitously painful to her loved ones to take such gruesome guesses. Sorry monster, I know you present it to consider what is possible and with good intent and to help.

She did not die of suffocation but drowning, so it may stand to reason that she would have lost her breath close to the bathtub, not having had a chance to regain her breath before being drowned. She did not drown by her own will nor with a chance to put up much of a fight it seems, from the ME report. And she was known to stand up for herself.

I keep remembering that she had been planning to study that night, so whatever happened to Julia must have seemed so out of the blue to her. What ideas were in her head from her studying that night; how far had she gotten in her studying for her next exam; and what class was it she was studying for? I don't know why, just trying to imagine, going from studying for a college class then all of sudden for her to confront her death. Did she have a chance to scream? Did she have a conversation with her killer? Will it forever be unknown? Did she plead to live? Did she know she would die as she felt her breath forced out?

See monster, this path of conjecture leaves these questions that only the killer can come close to answering and it hurts to think about them, and I'm a complete stranger to Julia.

FindHG, It breaks our heart to read some of the posts in here.... but I know or hope that we all just want the same thing. We want to find out who took Julia's life.
It is very interesting, never heard of BURKING before. Not sure that it will apply to Julia's case. I personally believe that who ever took her life, knew exactly what they were doing, that it was not an accident and that it was planned. IMO Julia didn't take baths.... she took showers. Remember she was found in the tub in an 'unnatural position'.
There has been a lot of attention on JT on this site, but really I think only since his arrest for Child in Feb. 2015. What amazes me, by looking at other cases, typically they rule out the male friends, people she dated or the ones that wanted to date her....In Julia's case there were quite a few Male acquaintances to rule out. Then LE concentrates on the victims immediate family. What I want to know is why didn't that happen, why did it take until late 2014 for YPSI LE to finally start investigating the family? And since JT, KT and JN met up with investigators in Dec. 2014, was when they decided finally to get the Turnquist Computer. WHY did they only get one computer, if KT and JT and JN where at the house and they KNEW that it might help in the investigation. Why did they NOT help by turning over ALL their computers? We had gotten a phone call from KT when a detective came to their house, she was so upset that they took their computer, darn right pi$$ed, saying that JT was VERY mad, and told her that she better get the computer back. So she evidently did go up to YPSI to get the computer back, and they wouldn't give it to her, and she demanded to see the warrant .... they showed her that they did have a warrant for the computer. THAT 1st. computer that they took in Dec. 2014, was not returned to them. I'm a parent, I would have probably asked the detectives very early on in the investigation if they wanted to visit my home, inspect my car, take anything from my home, and definitely turn over my computers when THEY knew early on that KT's MOM (RN) turned hers over to LE. I guess that's the part that really gets me... WHY, would they NOT want to cooperate?

 

[georgiasblu]

Monster, I appreciate you posting about Burking. It sure gives a plausible explanation as to what possibly occurred. It already appears as if whoever took her life likely had knowledge of her medical condition.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

FindHG, It breaks our heart to read some of the posts in here.... but I know or hope that we all just want the same thing. We want to find out who took Julia's life.
It is very interesting, never heard of BURKING before. Not sure that it will apply to Julia's case. I personally believe that who ever took her life, knew exactly what they were doing, that it was not an accident and that it was planned. IMO Julia didn't take baths.... she took showers. Remember she was found in the tub in an 'unnatural position'.
There has been a lot of attention on JT on this site, but really I think only since his arrest for Child in Feb. 2015. What amazes me, by looking at other cases, typically they rule out the male friends, people she dated or the ones that wanted to date her....In Julia's case there were quite a few Male acquaintances to rule out. Then LE concentrates on the victims immediate family. What I want to know is why didn't that happen, why did it take until late 2014 for YPSI LE to finally start investigating the family? And since JT, KT and JN met up with investigators in Dec. 2014, was when they decided finally to get the Turnquist Computer. WHY did they only get one computer, if KT and JT and JN where at the house and they KNEW that it might help in the investigation. Why did they NOT help by turning over ALL their computers? We had gotten a phone call from KT when a detective came to their house, she was so upset that they took their computer, darn right pi$$ed, saying that JT was VERY mad, and told her that she better get the computer back. So she evidently did go up to YPSI to get the computer back, and they wouldn't give it to her, and she demanded to see the warrant .... they showed her that they did have a warrant for the computer. THAT 1st. computer that they took in Dec. 2014, was not returned to them. I'm a parent, I would have probably asked the detectives very early on in the investigation if they wanted to visit my home, inspect my car, take anything from my home, and definitely turn over my computers when THEY knew early on that KT's MOM (RN) turned hers over to LE. I guess that's the part that really gets me... WHY, would they NOT want to cooperate?

JMO...

1. I'm going to speculate that YPD saw the Turnquist home as the 3rd home of the investigation since: the 1st home was Julia's YPSI apartment with 2 roommates, the 2nd home was Julia's grandmother's home in Monroe where she lived, when not at school. Agreed, December 2014 seems to be a long time after December 2012 for immediate family to be fully investigated and cleared, or not. Especially since it's been said YPD had suspicions of JT early on. Not sure if JT lawyering up could have delayed the Turnquist household from being investigated earlier. I'm sure someone was probably saying: Why is YPD looking at us when the killer is out there....

2. Maybe YPD asked to collect the 1st computer because it was in the family possession and operational on and before December 2012. It was probably the first step in investigating the 3rd house's electronics. For some reason they wanted to come back for more.

3. Maybe the Turquist's were in contact with YPD giving them information about other people they thought might be responsible for the crime, keeping YPD quite busy for a time since Julia knew a lot of people from school, work and back home (Monroe).

 

[4ist]

Applause. Thank you Psyquester. We have spent the last month or two dancing around the elephant in the room and I'm totally frustrated. I'm frustrated with JT who has the nerve to request people come forward to give information regarding Julia's murder when he himself won't cooperate. I'm frustrated with the Mother of this lovely girl who acts like a 15 year old in court. This is crazy. A young woman with promise was murdered. WTH is wrong with these people?

Thanks to Psyquestor, Georgiasblu, and all those in here that are sharing their thoughts and opinions to help get Justice for Julia. It has been very frustrating, worrisome and disturbing for us as grandparents to not see this investigation move quicker. They are stuck on unfortunately JT. We have been told by YPD that the case is an active case, but at this time there is only one person of interest, that is JT!!! We pray daily for the truth to come out & that KT, JT, & JN be even more cooperative and honest in this investigation. For this case to move on, we must get past the step father JT. Hoping and praying for our 12 year old grand daughters sake that he is NOT guilty of taking Julia's life.

 

[georgiasblu]

41st, I feel for all of Julias's loved ones. It's my hope that after the current issue is finished JT and his lawyer will sit down with YPD and answer some questions.
I can't remember, did JT ever offer to adopt the girls?

 

[4ist]

41st, I feel for all of Julias's loved ones. It's my hope that after the current issue is finished JT and his lawyer will sit down with YPD and answer some questions.
I can't remember, did JT ever offer to adopt the girls?

Georgiasblu, I am hoping the exact same thing. YPD detective has tried to get JT with his atty. to meet with them, and according to The dectictves the atty. says that's not going to happen, and refused to set up a meeting. So will it ever happen is my question?
As for if JT if he ever tried to Or wanted to adopt the twins, if he did, we never heard about it, and the proff is in the pudding so to speak, for he didn't!

 

[FindHG]

Georgiasblu, I am hoping the exact same thing. YPD detective has tried to get JT with his atty. to meet with them, and according to The dectictves the atty. says that's not going to happen, and refused to set up a meeting. So will it ever happen is my question?
As for if JT if he ever tried to Or wanted to adopt the twins, if he did, we never heard about it, and the proff is in the pudding so to speak, for he didn't!

Would kids have a say in their adoption? Maybe Gitana can set us straight on this. If Turnquist, in adopting the twins, would he have invited scrutiny of his child abuse investigation begun through Julia's school, while she was a child in grade school, IIRC? So it may have been an awkward step for him to take perhaps, and he seems to like to play things very close to the chest.

Thank you 4ist, your persistence is inspiring.

 

[black_squirrel]

JMO...

1. I'm going to speculate that YPD saw the Turnquist home as the 3rd home of the investigation since: the 1st home was Julia's YPSI apartment with 2 roommates, the 2nd home was Julia's grandmother's home in Monroe where she lived, when not at school. Agreed, December 2014 seems to be a long time after December 2012 for immediate family to be fully investigated and cleared, or not. Especially since it's been said YPD had suspicions of JT early on. Not sure if JT lawyering up could have delayed the Turnquist household from being investigated earlier. I'm sure someone was probably saying: Why is YPD looking at us when the killer is out there....

Indeed, the Turnquist home is probably considered to be the "3rd house".
Grandma Rose had suspicions towards JT early on and probably expressed those to LE. 4ist wrote on the forum before that she was wondering whether JT was involved soon after Julia's death. With some extended families having concerns, it is natural that the Ypsi police was suspicious of JT early on. When asked to provide a polygraph, JT got a lawyer. According to the lawyer, JT was cleared after passing a polygraph. So the reason for YPD not investigating JT further early on is probably because he passed the polygraph test. Then, a bit before December 2014, LE had another look at JT after the lead investigator was changed. Also, around that time YPD had run out of leads.

2. Maybe YPD asked to collect the 1st computer because it was in the family possession and operational on and before December 2012. It was probably the first step in investigating the 3rd house's electronics. For some reason they wanted to come back for more.

I am not sure if it was a first step towards investigating the 3rd house electronics. As far as I know, the YPD never investigated any other electronics in the 3rd house. (The Monroe PD did in relation to the charges.)

 

[black_squirrel]

Let's talk about the computers in the Turnquist household. LE has two of them but there seems to be some discrepancies concerning a possible third computer or often called a “missing” computer.

1. There was an older laptop computer (Computer #1) which usually stayed in the house and evidently was used by many people. When I visited them and stayed in their house, I would use it to primarily print my airline boarding pass as this computer was connected to their printer. This computer was there for many years even before Julia's murder. I believe that JT used this system for billing and scheduling of the cleaning business as well as financial records for this business for many years (just my opinion).
2. Just prior to Julia's murder, she and her sister had decided to get JT a new laptop computer (Computer #2) so he could use it for his cleaning business. Julia put this computer on layaway at the Walmart store she worked at. After her death, Walmart paid off the layaway and I believe Kim or Jennifer picked up all the items Julia had on layaway. This new laptop was then wrapped and given to JT as a Christmas present at their Christmas gathering. This unwrapping was done at JT's mother-in-law's house with plenty of witnesses there to this event.
3. In December 2014, LE had a search warrant for a computer that was in the Turnquist household. I am somewhat confused by what exactly happened that day as KT & JT say they "gave" the computer (Computer #1) to LE voluntarily. Either way, LE now had the computer and this is the one that was originally found on.
4. JT and KT "complained" to LE that he needed the computer back because it had his business information - financial, scheduling, etc. He said he would need the computer to do his income taxes too as it contained all his business financial documentation.
5. LE was not going to release this computer (Computer #1) as the computer forensics people were continuing to investigate the possible child . Because of this, I have been lead to believe that JT purchased a "new" laptop (Computer #3) to replace Computer #1. This purchase (Computer #3) would have been made after the December 2014 search warrant date and that would be very easy for LE to verify.
6. In February 2015, Monroe County presented a search warrant at the Turnquist home for all electronic devices. They seized a laptop computer, video camera, phones and possibly other devices.
7. Now, here’s the confusion factor…. Evidently this second computer seized had been purchased within the last few months prior to the February 2015 search warrant and after the December 2014 incident. Was this Computer #3? This is what we have been led to believe. If so, where is Computer #2 that was a gift for JT at Christmas 2012? My daughter has maintained that LE has all their computers. If this is true, and LE knows the age of the computers they have, then where is the computer given as a gift in December 2012? I’m sure LE already knows the age and date purchased of all the computers. Monroe County LE is not really talking and they seem to believe that there could be a “missing” computer (Computer #2).
Like anything else, time will tell. If you are now confused, imagine how I feel!

I think the simplest explanation is that there is no Computer #3, and that Computer #2 was the one seized in Feb 2015. What makes you believe that JT bought a 3rd computer? Why do you say that evidently the second computer seized had been purchased within the last few months prior to the Feb 2015 search? What is the evidence?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

JMO...
In regards the 1st computer that "everyone" in the Turnquist household used and LE asked for in December 2014, I'm shocked they didn't quietly replace this computer with a newer version before December 2014!!

Why, you might ask?

Well, If someone in my immediate family is mysteriously murder and I've been at home cruising questionable sites, leaving a trail of 300,000 sketchy images on the computer, even if I had nothing to do with the murdered, I would still be concerned LE may want to investigate all family members. Especially a step-parent/child relationship. Replacing a computer that old wouldn't have even looked suspicious since operating systems and software seems to update every three years or so.

I wonder if LE told immediate family members not to remove any electronics from their homes because they may be needed as part of the investigation?

 

[black_squirrel]

JMO...
In regards the 1st computer that "everyone" in the Turnquist household used and LE asked for in December 2014, I'm shocked they didn't quietly replace this computer with a newer version before December 2014!!

Why, you might ask?

Well, If someone in my immediate family is mysteriously murder and I've been at home cruising questionable sites, leaving a trail of 300,000 sketchy images on the computer, even if I had nothing to do with the murdered, I would still be concerned LE may want to investigate all family members. Especially a step-parent/child relationship. Replacing a computer that old wouldn't have even looked suspicious since operating systems and software seems to update every three years or so.

I wonder if LE told immediate family members not to remove any electronics from their homes because they may be needed as part of the investigation?

The fact that they did not replace or erase the computer indicates perhaps that they were not aware of anything illegal on the computer. I domt believe that there could have been 300,000 images on the computer. I think JTs lawyer probably misspoke. But the lawyers point was that pnly 7 or 8 (at the time) of the 300,000 images were questionable. I think that possibly people wereusing the computer to surf mainstream sites, which is not illegal.

 

[psyquestor]

The fact that they did not replace or erase the computer indicates perhaps that they were not aware of anything illegal on the computer. I domt believe that there could have been 300,000 images on the computer. I think JTs lawyer probably misspoke. But the lawyers point was that pnly 7 or 8 (at the time) of the 300,000 images were questionable. I think that possibly people wereusing the computer to surf mainstream sites, which is not illegal.

Opinion stated as fact? You don't personally know what they did, regarding data and deletion do you? Regarding the number of computers; we have verified family members with first hand accounts concerning how many (and what types) of computers were in the home when they were *personally there.*
Now if you'd like to find a link to MSM or get KT or JT to directly post, I'd be willing to discuss it. But for now, this is jus tyour opinion being stated as fact.

Going back a few posts you stated JT had passed a lie detector test "according to his lawyer." Okay, that's all well and good but LE hasn't said that JT passed, have they? TIA

IMHOO

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Opinion stated as fact? You don't personally know what they did, regarding data and deletion do you? Regarding the number of computers; we have verified family members with first hand accounts concerning how many (and what types) of computers were in the home when they were *personally there.*
Now if you'd like to find a link to MSM or get KT or JT to directly post, I'd be willing to discuss it. But for now, this is jus tyour opinion being stated as fact.

Going back a few posts you stated JT had passed a lie detector test "according to his lawyer." Okay, that's all well and good but LE hasn't said that JT passed, have they? TIA

IMHOO

With these verified family members living over a 1000 miles away and not visiting regularly, it's hard to know exactly what they do know other than what comes down to he said/she said.