MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[Trojan1966]

The initial interview was on Dec 14, 2012. Then the statements were recanted in another interview on Feb 15, 2013. There is not a lot of time in between. Did the friend get married and change her story within these two months?

I don't know the exact date she got married. I just believe she was influenced to recant her statement. It will be interesting to see what she would say if she is put on the witness stand in a court setting......

 

[Spellbound]

I believe the best friend is LL, and she was married in June 2015, according to the Monroe Florist's FB website.

She may very well have felt loyalty, and perhaps felt intimidated (not sure if that is the right word) by her friendship with the family (sisters, parents, maybe other relatives closely tied) and was afraid to upset them. Recanting saved her standing in the family friends list. Just a thought, I don't really know any other reason to recant.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I believe the best friend is LL, and she was married in June 2015, according to the Monroe Florist's FB website.

She may very well have felt loyalty, and perhaps felt intimidated (not sure if that is the right word) by her friendship with the family (sisters, parents, maybe other relatives closely tied) and was afraid to upset them. Recanting saved her standing in the family friends list. Just a thought, I don't really know any other reason to recant.

It's too bad Julia's friend felt pressured to recant her statement, if this is the reason she did. There may come a time where she could be called to testify, even if she recanted. It seems some family and friends want to come and go in dealings with LE. If in the future someone is charged with the said event, the state will call on who they wish, under oath to prove their case.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

My guess is, that LE is interested in the days prior because if JT did it, he would have prepared for it. He might have bought certain items, such as rope. He would have gotten the gloves with someone else's DNA somewhere. The glove is perhaps the most important physical evidence. It is nearly certain that the perp put it there, deliberately or accidentally.
It has either the DNA of the perp, or of someone that comes into contact with the perp. IF JT did it, and LE knows where he was the days prior, then they might know where he got the gloves from. In that case they might match the DNA with that person connected to JT. That would not necessarily prove that JT did it. But the list of possible suspects would be drastically reduced.

Agreed, planning was involved here, probably in the days prior. This was a premeditated murder by someone who knew Julia. Yes, the gloves could very well be the 'smoking gun' in this case. If LE can find the DNA donor to the gloves, this will lead them directly to the killer.

Also, I wonder if LE has run the DNA found on the gloves into the national criminal DNA database. In some states, not sure about all states, when someone is released from prison they are required to keep a sample of their DNA on file with LE. A few cold cases have already been solved with the use of this database.

 

[hockeymom4]

I recall similar support for Jason Fleury from his family and others in the Jaimee Mendez case, as was the case with the perp accused of murdering Hannah Graham.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-25-Swampscott-6-November-2014-2-***ARREST***

This isn't JTs family supporting him though, it's Julia's family. Her blood. It is very common for the person being accused of murder, kidnapping, etc to have their blood say they are innocent even after conviction. I have to say that I don't know if I have seen the innocent victim families saying the person is 100% innocent.

That would have been in Jaimee Mendez's case, if her family said Jason was 100% innocent, and that they didn't do.

 

[FindHG]

This isn't JTs family supporting him though, it's Julia's family. Her blood. It is very common for the person being accused of murder, kidnapping, etc to have their blood say they are innocent even after conviction. I have to say that I don't know if I have seen the innocent victim families saying the person is 100% innocent.

That would have been in Jaimee Mendez's case, if her family said Jason was 100% innocent, and that they didn't do.

Yes, Julia did seem to be moving on, not staying within the fold or mindset, based on the tensions mentioned on thread by family insiders. You may be onto something, hockeymom4.

Why would her own family mind her not staying within the mindset? What could her moving away from them threaten, as I don't think Julia intended to hurt anyone with revelations? Could it have been something material, like what seemed to have been searched for, or something emotional, like control, pride, status, or anger, do you suppose?

The way she was killed seems controlling to me, most of all, don't you think? Not just to end her life, there seems so much more to the way she was left, an avenging quality to it, for some reason.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Yes, Julia did seem to be moving on, not staying within the fold or mindset, based on the tensions mentioned on thread by family insiders. You may be onto something, hockeymom4.

Why would her own family mind her not staying within the mindset? What could her moving away from them threaten, as I don't think Julia intended to hurt anyone with revelations? Could it have been something material, like what seemed to have been searched for, or something emotional, like control, pride, status, or anger, do you suppose?

The way she was killed seems controlling to me, most of all, don't you think? Not just to end her life, there seems so much more to the way she was left, an avenging quality to it, for some reason.

I too, wondered if the pert. was searching for a material item. The way Julia's room was ransacked, with dresser drawers opened, clothing found on the floor and the contents of her purse dumped onto the bed. But what? Nothing of true value was taken. The only missing item was Julia's key.

I think some family members in Monroe are supportive of JT because he has what appears to be a solid alibi for the Sunday night, when it is presumed the said event occurred. Maybe they asked around and the neighbors said they saw him home or saw his vehicle in the driveway. By all accounts, that Sunday at the Turnquist household has been described as normal.

Also, Ypsi doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to crime. It's a college town, next to another college town and every now and again we hear of a theft, assault, and (rarely) a murder. I'm sure Monroe has it's problems, but by most accounts JT was/is described as a family man, teaching martial arts and operating a cleaning business. Not a person you would normally think of as being the main POI of a murder case.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Snipped

The way she was killed seems controlling to me, most of all, don't you think? Not just to end her life, there seems so much more to the way she was left, an avenging quality to it, for some reason.

I've considered a vengeance too JT may have toward Julia. But once Julia was away from the Turnquist household, living with her grandmother and then moving to Ypsi for school, it would seem JT would cool down in an out of sight out of mind way, so to speak. Also, if JT was so ticked at Julia, why would he have her working with him at cleaning jobs? Most people try to avoid others they don't get along with. He would have to see her at family events, but could easily find an excuse not to have her work in the business, like "thanks, but I've got enough help right now" or "I cannot pay you what you're worth." Seems like he wouldn't go out of his way to stay in communication with Julia.

Wild speculation here, but could it be that JT didn't have a problem with Julia per say, he just wanted her to see things his way. He wasn't willing to go up against the Grandmother when Julia stayed with her, but couldn't resist keeping in contact once Julia had a place of her own. By Julia working with him occasionally, he could stop by, when in the area, possibly unannounced to discuss a change in work plans or to drop off a paycheck etc..

 

[Spellbound]

Thinking aloud here: Another possibility is that Julia was the only one picked for the target of any abuse -- physical? sexual?) through the years, so other family members may not have been very aware of exactly what had occurred. Because it was not seen, family may not have believed it happened if she did not speak up or felt she would not be believed. Particularly if Julia was not prone to sharing such things with family or friends. She may have finally started putting a stop to any alleged abuses, and was met with anger/frustration for disobeying what was expected.

Could she have been targeted that night for an encounter that went way out of line? The missing panties ... could they have been taken for a trophy/momento, or because they had too much on them that might track the perp? Blood, semen, etc. Why the need to hunt down and take the key(s) except to return surreptitiously (for what reason?) or as another momento? (If that was why the place seemed to be ransacked). Would a rape cause her vasovagol symptoms? Could she have been bound and raped, thus the cutting of clothing? If perp thought she had died (but had actually fainted) maybe the water was to cover up the real clues of what had happened, and now the perp feels too embroiled to admit what actually happened to lead up to her death.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Thinking aloud here: Another possibility is that Julia was the only one picked for the target of any abuse -- physical? sexual?) through the years, so other family members may not have been very aware of exactly what had occurred. Because it was not seen, family may not have believed it happened if she did not speak up or felt she would not be believed. Particularly if Julia was not prone to sharing such things with family or friends. She may have finally started putting a stop to any alleged abuses, and was met with anger/frustration for disobeying what was expected.

Could she have been targeted that night for an encounter that went way out of line? The missing panties ... could they have been taken for a trophy/momento, or because they had too much on them that might track the perp? Blood, semen, etc. Why the need to hunt down and take the key(s) except to return surreptitiously (for what reason?) or as another momento? (If that was why the place seemed to be ransacked). Would a rape cause her vasovagol symptoms? Could she have been bound and raped, thus the cutting of clothing? If perp thought she had died (but had actually fainted) maybe the water was to cover up the real clues of what had happened, and now the perp feels too embroiled to admit what actually happened to lead up to her death.

I had a friend in high school who was targeted by her stepfather, and to my knowledge the rest of the family didn't know about it. She left home early, and didn't return. Her and the stepfather didn't get along, but mostly this was because he wouldn't stop making verbal advances to her when other family members weren't around. She didn't tell other family members for 3 reasons: she feared her mother wouldn't believe her, it may/would break up the family unit and the stepfather, working for the state would probably lose his job, which could hurt the family financially, together or separated. She always told me if he tried anything, she would fight him off. She had enough anger towards him, she felt she could hold her own.

In Julia's case I think the motive could've been rape and turned to murder. Although, with the pre-planning that took place, if JT is/was the pert. I cannot understand if rape was the motion, how he thought he was going to get away with it.

 

[georgiasblu]

I'm in agreement with you Spellbound regarding she was the only victim of the alleged sexual abuse. At some point, Julia was able to end the abuse, she moved to Grandmother's home and finally there is distance. From the affadavit we have learned that JT was angry that Julia was dating interracially. Was that a slap in his face? Julia had a date Saturdaynight. Sunday night/early am she is murdered. We know there was a phone call between the two. Was it about working? He also tells us she told him, "I love you, Daddy." Anyone else find that preposterous? I think JT had been seething because she had gotten out from under this thumb. He was seething because she was dating interracially. Was that one more slap in the face of this very controlling man? Something was said in that last phone call. I'd bet on it. Regarding the scene, I think it may have been all staged. The gloves, the attempt to make it look ransacked. The panties were taken due to possible evidence. He takes what he bound her with, what he used to cut off her clothes, and whoopsies, drops the gloves in front of the bathroom door. I disagree with Trojan that it would have been difficult to overpower her. I believe JT knew exactlly how to get control of her quickly. There was very little of a struggle. Two small abrasions on her elbow. It happened quickly and was over fast. So she is found facedown in the tub with her phone under her. The ultimate act of control. Cause he's the boss and he shuts her up for the last time.
Forgive me Trojan.

 

[Spellbound]

When doing some searches I stumbled upon the Jessica Padgett case, age 33, murdered by her stepfather. I was struck by what seems to me to be similarities to this case. Not specific similarities, but in the aspects of personalities, both being hunters, and this statement: "I think it's more probable that he figured the police would never link the crime to him, and therefore he didn't have to worry about them searching his computer," he said
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/12/criminal_experts_say_evidence.html

Warning ... the details of Jessica's death are horrifying, at least to me. This could explain why they freely handed over the computer, but they wanted it back when realized it could be incriminating. JMO

another article: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...r-stepfather-gregory-graf-20150129-story.html

LookingGlass and georgiasblu, I agree with what you both just posted. I, too, am sorry to write these things for Trojan to have to read and I also apologize. Unfortunately, it could be helpful path to be explored further by LE, tho they may have already. I think it is also possible that Julia loved her mother very much, and had seen her at least verbally if not physically attacked by JT and she did not want to hurt her mother further (or other family) by voicing what happened to her, thinking she could handle it now that she was an adult.

Georgiasblu, I also think it preposterous that she told him in their last conversations "I love you Daddy." She may say that around family, but my gut instinct says otherwise in this particular scenario. And I totally agree he would know how to quickly overcome her and be able to silence her long enough to do whatever he planned. If he did do the murder, it may or may not have been planned to end that way, but the coverup (if there was one) was done to avert attention from him. Too many other things indicate that to me. Throwing in how he worked for LE (though as a volunteer, "pulling dead bodies from water adds another dimension to the possibility of involvement (again JMO).

If by chance none of the supporters of JT had ever witnessed or been told of any abuse toward Julia, that might explain their support of his innocence. Should they acknowledge the possibility of his involvement, they might be feeling shame or anger or (even fear) directed toward themselves for not recognizing it earlier and saving her. Perhaps it takes people more distant from the immediate scene to see the possibility.

So many thoughts, so little answers. Everything here is just my own thinking and opinions, no facts to base it on other than what I have heard or read, and gut feelings.

I do appreciate the kinder tones of the thread lately. Thank you all for trying to be considerate of the feelings of close relatives, and for helping us all to understand the myriad of possible explanations, even if we are wrong.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Snipped
I disagree with Trojan that it would have been difficult to overpower her. I believe JT knew exactlly how to get control of her quickly. There was very little of a struggle. Two small abrasions on her elbow. It happened quickly and was over fast. So she is found facedown in the tub with her phone under her. The ultimate act of control. Cause he's the boss and he shuts her up for the last time.
Forgive me Trojan.

I hazard to guess, but JT's martial arts experience could have helped him take control, speculating he's the pert. If he grabbed from behind, getting control of her arms. She could have passed out from the attack or he used a martial art technique to bring unconsciousness. I know if the neck get turned too quickly or violently to the side it can knock a person out.

 

[Spellbound]

I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my head...... it only makes sense JT is still considered a possible person of interest. LE will generally first try to clear the immediate circle of family and friends (spouse, siblings, parents, maybe neighbors, roommates, etc) and THEN move the circle further out to other acquaintances, co-workers, etc. If they have not been able to totally rule out all the family at this point, then it makes sense that he may still be looked at with a suspicious nature.

 

[georgiasblu]

I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my head...... it only makes sense JT is still considered a possible person of interest. LE will generally first try to clear the immediate circle of family and friends (spouse, siblings, parents, maybe neighbors, roommates, etc) and THEN move the circle further out to other acquaintances, co-workers, etc. If they have not been able to totally rule out all the family at this point, then it makes sense that he may still be looked at with a suspicious nature.

Yep. There is more here than just tunnel vision. So, what about the fact that KT swears he never left the house that night?
If JT did this, it blows my mind that he possibly could have set someone else up had the prints been in the system. That's pretty darn evil.

 

[caspermi]

Did JN's parents have a spare set of keys to her apartment?

 

[Spellbound]

Did JN's parents have a spare set of keys to her apartment?

I also wonder. I don't think it has ever been confirmed as a yes or no, bit don't quote me on that.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

When doing some searches I stumbled upon the Jessica Padgett case, age 33, murdered by her stepfather. I was struck by what seems to me to be similarities to this case. Not specific similarities, but in the aspects of personalities, both being hunters, and this statement: "I think it's more probable that he figured the police would never link the crime to him, and therefore he didn't have to worry about them searching his computer," he said
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/breaking-news/index.ssf/2014/12/criminal_experts_say_evidence.html

Warning ... the details of Jessica's death are horrifying, at least to me. This could explain why they freely handed over the computer, but they wanted it back when realized it could be incriminating. JMO

another article: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...r-stepfather-gregory-graf-20150129-story.html

Snipped
.

Horrifying indeed, interesting how the stepfather figured he would never be linked to the crime. And searching the computer, the planning...there a some striking similarities to Julia's case here. It's unbelievable what some people will do because they (think) they can get away with it.

 

[ModMaiden]

I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my head...... it only makes sense JT is still considered a possible person of interest. LE will generally first try to clear the immediate circle of family and friends (spouse, siblings, parents, maybe neighbors, roommates, etc) and THEN move the circle further out to other acquaintances, co-workers, etc. If they have not been able to totally rule out all the family at this point, then it makes sense that he may still be looked at with a suspicious nature.

Thank you, Spellbound. This helps explains why they are stuck at JT. Until you mentioned this I overlooked that reason and instantly thought of another case. Sheriff Michael Scott uses the words "envelope of suspicion" in Dr. Teresa Sievers case in referring to looking inward before moving out. LE can't move past JT in the envelope of suspicion.

Here are Sheriff Scott's words from his interview on 9/9/15 with Tricia (it's just above the 24:55 mark near the bottom of post):

SMS: That's correct. The general envelope of suspicion. Being again, broadly in any case of this nature or specific to this case, we typically, initially look from the inside out. So the people that...it stands to reason if you think about this. The people who are closest to the victim - husbands, wives, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children and then you extrapolate out from that to perhaps good friends, very good close family friends, maybe neighbors and/or business partners. Those people are generally in the immediate circle, or immediate sphere or envelope of the victim. Initially are persons of great interest to us. Either for their involvement, perhaps as a suspect, perhaps as their involvement as a witness. But certainly their general involvement
or what they might be able to contribute to the investigation. And from there you work on.
IN other words, when we first responded to the 911 call that we talked about earlier. We didn't immediately say this must have something to do with someone in Missouri, or California or Ohio. You generally want to work from the inside out. The inside out led us to Missouri. So that's what I referred to. If a husband is killed, the wife or immediate family members

Close business associates are going to be in that realm of witness slash suspect slash et cetera.

in terms of their involvement.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?290253-Transcription-of-Interview-with-Sheriff-Mike-Scott-Thank-you-KateB&p=12058716#post12058716

I kept trying to understand why the focus on JT and your thought might be the reason. It certainly offers a clear reason as a contributing factor to their focus.

Now if we apply Sheriff Scott's term "envelope of suspicion" to this case, what do they need from JT to move forward and him out of the envelope?

 

[ModMaiden]

I hazard to guess, but JT's martial arts experience could have helped him take control, speculating he's the pert. If he grabbed from behind, getting control of her arms. She could have passed out from the attack or he used a martial art technique to bring unconsciousness. I know if the neck get turned too quickly or violently to the side it can knock a person out.

This is very true. One aspect of martial arts is control, even the student studying it must show control and in their confrontations with others. They must get the upper hand quickly to subdue the opponent and take control. A highly trained master, such as a black belt, would probably know several techniques to overtake their opponent silently and quickly. If martial arts were used as part of the attack Julie probably didn't have time to scream for help or escape their grasp.