MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #4

[Spellbound]

Thanks for the tip. I found some $$$$$ under my own name.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oh, but I forgot to tell you about the 10% finders fee :giggle: Congrats!

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Thanks. But what if the insurance hasn't been paid out. Suppose someone killed for insurance money. It probably wouldn't be wise for that person to claim the insurance money while there is still a murder investigation going on, because police would take notice. But if the murderer would wait until the case goes cold (or the wrong person is convicted) then (s)he might just get away with it.

I sometimes see these forensic science programs, where the perp starts calling the insurance the day after the murder. That of course looks mighty suspicious. In case of a suspicious death, I think the insurance company probably would contact the police for details.

Suppose someone took out a life insurance on Julia. I wonder if police would find out if they don't know which beneficiary they are looking for, which insurance company has the policy if the insurance hasn't been paid out yet.

I am not completely sure how the insurance business works, but I think there may even be a record of insurance policies taken out that can be searched or accessed by LE before payout, possibly by a different agency.

 

[ModMaiden]

Trojan1966, that was a beautiful poem. Just everything about her death pains me. We need answers for you and her. I am so very sorry for your loss.

 

[ModMaiden]

Thanks ModMaiden, it's interesting to know the true definition of Taekwondo. I feel it's a necessary tool in the analysis of JT as a possible POI in Julia's case.

Another question I have is: did anyone else in the Turnquist household study martial arts? Did Julia, JN or KT take Taekwondo classes too. Just thinking since Turnquist was/is an instructor at an established martial arts business, other family members may get a discount or free classes.

The only other family member that I am aware of is his own daughter. JT had posted on the sporting website about the youngest and her upcoming competition or trial. Can't recall what she was performing in but I got the impression he was very excited about it and proud of her achievements in the arts. I have never heard if the twins studied it or not.

 

[ModMaiden]

oh, but I forgot to tell you about the 10% finders fee :giggle: Congrats!

And don't forget about my 90% for reminding you to tell black_squirrel about the website. :angel:

 

[Trojan1966]

Thanks ModMaiden, it's interesting to know the true definition of Taekwondo. I feel it's a necessary tool in the analysis of JT as a possible POI in Julia's case.

Another question I have is: did anyone else in the Turnquist household study martial arts? Did Julia, JN or KT take Taekwondo classes too. Just thinking since Turnquist was/is an instructor at an established martial arts business, other family members may get a discount or free classes.

The youngest daughter has taken training at the DoJo. I believe she has a black belt. It is called Tang Soo Do, International Tang Soo Do Federation. In the summer of 2012, the entire family went to Chicago for some either National or International competition. Jim was the one who entered but did not do too well. He was disappointed in his performance. The family had a great time touring Chicago and took lots of pictures. As far as I know, the twins did not actively participate in martial arts training. JT may have given them some "basic" self defense moves but that may be all.

 

[ModMaiden]

This could be a panic reaction to the most recent court hearing. Since the judge didn't suppress the 12 page affidavit, as JT and his attorney hoped, I would wonder if JT is in a panic about what might be in the garage. Maybe his attorney has said more search warrants at the property are possible. Could there be something in the garage that could be used against JT in the child case? Tapes, videos etc.. Maybe YPD has plans for more search warrants in Julia's case. If JT isn't going to fully cooperate with YPD, then searches would be another way to collect the data they need for a full accounting of the Turnquist household.

Your posts are always interesting. That is a good possibility that he is starting to go into panic mode. Surely it would feel like the walls are closing in on him at some point. Julie's grandfather Trojan1866 stated LE didn't seem to bothered by the information when it was reported to them. I didn't ask beyond what Trojan said, now I wonder which LE department was informed, who witnessed JT doing this and who informed LE? Since the murder and cases are being handled by different LE departments. To us his actions were curious so perhaps LE knew what he was after or did they watch what he did from a stakeout point of view? Your suggestion makes sense so any thoughts on the non-interest about it from LE? One other thought is LE is simply waiting for their moment to arrive because they have everything needed but other situations presently are preventing them from moving in. Would a murder charge trump a charge or is it based on which arrest came first?

This second part is also interesting because so much seems to hinge on his cooperation. How long can he refuse to talk before LE can use methods to get what they need? Can they even do anything if he continues to refuse? What if new evidence or information comes up regarding JT and Julie that they no longer need his cooperation for an arrest? Is that something that could be possible?

It really looks like this case is stalled because of JT. Terribly sad. For the above, I am not saying JT is to be or going to be arrested for murder only wondering about some details, his actions and other options in relation to the ongoing investigation of which he is considered POI.

 

[ModMaiden]

The youngest daughter has taken training at the DoJo. I believe she has a black belt. It is called Tang Soo Do, International Tang Soo Do Federation. In the summer of 2012, the entire family went to Chicago for some either National or International competition. Jim was the one who entered but did not do too well. He was disappointed in his performance. The family had a great time touring Chicago and took lots of pictures. As far as I know, the twins did not actively participate in martial arts training. JT may have given them some "basic" self defense moves but that may be all.

Thank you for the information. What stood out to me was in the summer of 2012 and she was killed Dec. 2012. Did something happen on that trip to Chicago within the family that you are aware of? Would a trip like this be unusual for the family to take? Any chance of pinpointing the actual month? I just find the time frame interesting. While it could be nothing, it is an avenue that could be explored for possible clues.

Always thinking of you, Trojan. Hope you are staying strong and know we are here for you.

 

[Trojan1966]

Thank you for the information. What stood out to me was in the summer of 2012 and she was killed Dec. 2012. Did something happen on that trip to Chicago within the family that you are aware of? Would a trip like this be unusual for the family to take? Any chance of pinpointing the actual month? I just find the time frame interesting. While it could be nothing, it is an avenue that could be explored for possible clues.

Always thinking of you, Trojan. Hope you are staying strong and know we are here for you.

In acuality, this was their first family vacation in quite awhile in which everyone went together as a family.
I believe the dates of the trip were July 26th to July 30th. I believe the International Tang Soo Do Tournament was held on the July 28th. I have a picture taken of all three granddaughters at a fountain in Chicago on July 30th. Not real sure if they left that day or the next.

 

[ModMaiden]

In acuality, this was their first family vacation in quite awhile in which everyone went together as a family.
I believe the dates of the trip were July 26th to July 30th. I believe the International Tang Soo Do Tournament was held on the July 28th. I have a picture taken of all three granddaughters at a fountain in Chicago on July 30th. Not real sure if they left that day or the next.

Thank you for the dates and the additional information. Makes me wonder if something happened here that spilled over into Dec. 2012. Some random thoughts are was Julie alone with JT at anytime during that vacation, was there any tension in the air between them, did she try to avoid to him in subtle ways where only JT would have known why she was acting that way. We will never know the answers unfortunately. It is sad that within 5 months of this family vacation this beautiful woman was dead.

 

[Trojan1966]

Thank you for the dates and the additional information. Makes me wonder if something happened here that spilled over into Dec. 2012. Some random thoughts are was Julie alone with JT at anytime during that vacation, was there any tension in the air between them, did she try to avoid to him in subtle ways where only JT would have known why she was acting that way. We will never know the answers unfortunately. It is sad that within 5 months of this family vacation this beautiful woman was dead.

As far as I know, everyone enjoyed the family vacation. Julie seemed very happy and took lots of pictures that looked like everyone was having a good time. They took the train from the Detroit area to Chicago and really had fun along the way. Like I said before, this was their first true family vacation in a very long time (maybe their first with the entire family).

 

[georgiasblu]

As far as I know, everyone enjoyed the family vacation. Julie seemed very happy and took lots of pictures that looked like everyone was having a good time. They took the train from the Detroit area to Chicago and really had fun along the way. Like I said before, this was their first true family vacation in a very long time (maybe their first with the entire family).

I think whatever happened occured within the week of her death. Whether it was JT or someone else.

 

[Spellbound]

I think whatever happened occured within the week of her death. Whether it was JT or someone else.

Yes, I agree..... or a build up over time that was seething.

 

[georgiasblu]

Yes, I agree..... or a build up over time that was seething.

That! I think it was both.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

The youngest daughter has taken training at the DoJo. I believe she has a black belt. It is called Tang Soo Do, International Tang Soo Do Federation. In the summer of 2012, the entire family went to Chicago for some either National or International competition. Jim was the one who entered but did not do too well. He was disappointed in his performance. The family had a great time touring Chicago and took lots of pictures. As far as I know, the twins did not actively participate in martial arts training. JT may have given them some "basic" self defense moves but that may be all.

Thanks Trojan1966, it's interesting that JT may have given the twins some basic self defense moves in martial arts. Also, it appears Julia was slim, yet a medium to large frame in size. (thinking aloud).

The Chicago trip does sound like a very nice family vacation filled with great memories and nice family photos. In July of 2012, it appears everyone was getting along and having fun as a family. But in December of 2012 tragedy strikes. (thinking aloud).

 

[georgiasblu]

Thanks Trojan1966, it's interesting that JT may have given the twins some basic self defense moves in martial arts. Also, it appears Julia was slim, yet a medium to large frame in size. (thinking aloud).


The Chicago trip does sound like a very nice family vacation filled with great memories and nice family photos. In July of 2012, it appears everyone was getting along and having fun as a family. But in December of 2012 tragedy strikes. (thinking aloud).

I think it's no secret that Julia wasn't fond of JT but she loved her sisters and her Mom and so she did what she had to do.

 

[black_squirrel]

I am still mauling over the (physical) evidence...

The gloves: Profilers believed the gloves were staged. I agree. Criminals are often stupid, and might leave behind evidence. In this case, the gloves were in front of the bathroom door. The perp
could not have overlooked it while he (or she) was leaving the apartment. In fact, the placement of the gloves in front of the bathroom door would be so obvious, that I wonder if it was a staged staging...
Suppose that the glove has a good DNA sample from person X, and a weak DNA sample from person Y. Then person Z, the murderer, could have placed it there so that it would look like Y is the perpetrator trying to make it look like person X did it. Perhaps unlikely, but it might be a good plot for a crime novel

The crime scene: Although semen was found, there may not have been a sexual assault. The clothes were cutoff which suggests to me that they were removed when Julia was no longer conscious. This seem to have happened in the bathroom since some clothes were on the ground there. If there was a sexual assault it most likely would have been in the bedroom. But it seems that she had her clothes on until she got to the bathroom.


The semen: There are several possibilities. Jennifer said that Julia was seeing someone who had a vasectomy. That would explain the semen. The semen wouldn't implicate anyone in that case. Or the semen came from JT. It might not prove that he is the killer, but surely would make him a suspect because this would suggest at least an improper relationship. But the semen could also have been planted there by the perpetrator.

 

[Spellbound]

I am still mauling over the (physical) evidence...

The gloves: Profilers believed the gloves were staged. I agree. Criminals are often stupid, and might leave behind evidence. In this case, the gloves were in front of the bathroom door. The perp
could not have overlooked it while he (or she) was leaving the apartment. In fact, the placement of the gloves in front of the bathroom door would be so obvious, that I wonder if it was a staged staging...
Suppose that the glove has a good DNA sample from person X, and a weak DNA sample from person Y. Then person Z, the murderer, could have placed it there so that it would look like Y is the perpetrator trying to make it look like person X did it. Perhaps unlikely, but it might be a good plot for a crime novel

The crime scene: Although semen was found, there may not have been a sexual assault. The clothes were cutoff which suggests to me that they were removed when Julia was no longer conscious. This seem to have happened in the bathroom since some clothes were on the ground there. If there was a sexual assault it most likely would have been in the bedroom. But it seems that she had her clothes on until she got to the bathroom.


The semen: There are several possibilities. Jennifer said that Julia was seeing someone who had a vasectomy. That would explain the semen. The semen wouldn't implicate anyone in that case. Or the semen came from JT. It might not prove that he is the killer, but surely would make him a suspect because this would suggest at least an improper relationship. But the semen could also have been planted there by the perpetrator.

Good thinking. I agree with most..... but I do't recall knowing the clothes (or some of them) were definitely found in the bathroom. Is that a known fact I have forgotten?

Gloves do appear to be staged. One other small possibility is they were used at another cleaning job done by the perp or a co-worker and were just "handy" to leave. I also wonder why no fingerprints or other physical evidence is evident .... did he wear gloves that he left with? Were they on when he (or she) entered the apartment? It was December, so regular winter gloves that fit tightly would not be suspicious to Julia.

How would one plant/stage semen unless it was his own?

 

[georgiasblu]

Good thinking. I agree with most..... but I do't recall knowing the clothes (or some of them) were definitely found in the bathroom. Is that a known fact I have forgotten?

Gloves do appear to be staged. One other small possibility is they were used at another cleaning job done by the perp or a co-worker and were just "handy" to leave. I also wonder why no fingerprints or other physical evidence is evident .... did he wear gloves that he left with? Were they on when he (or she) entered the apartment? It was December, so regular winter gloves that fit tightly would not be suspicious to Julia.

How would one plant/stage semen unless it was his own?

I have wondered about that. If not the perps own semen then perhaps a used condom *yuck* picked up from somewhere. If that was the case, how unlucky to get a sample from a man who had a vasectomy. Another question. Would semen degrade from Julia' being submerged in water?

 

[black_squirrel]

Good thinking. I agree with most..... but I do't recall knowing the clothes (or some of them) were definitely found in the bathroom. Is that a known fact I have forgotten?

Gloves do appear to be staged. One other small possibility is they were used at another cleaning job done by the perp or a co-worker and were just "handy" to leave. I also wonder why no fingerprints or other physical evidence is evident .... did he wear gloves that he left with? Were they on when he (or she) entered the apartment? It was December, so regular winter gloves that fit tightly would not be suspicious to Julia.

How would one plant/stage semen unless it was his own?

Clothes on the bathroom floor:

She was nude from the waist down, her yoga pants had been cut off her body and left on the bathroom floor. Her pink shirt had been cut, exposing her upper body and chest area, with only the right sleeve remaining on her right arm.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...sectomy-fbi-profiler-points-stepdad/71507420/

Niswender's clothing had been cut off, except for a sleeve, and left on the bathroom floor.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/documents_detail_allegations_a.html

As suggested before, the semen could have come from a condom. A person with a vasectomy is likely to be heterosexual. So it probably would have been easier for a woman than for a man to get the semen from then donor. A person with a vasectomy is less likely to use a condom, unless he is not with his regular partner. The probability that a random man has a vasectomy is about 10%. But this probability could be higher if it is a older married man that had been seduced to a one-night stand for example.

Another possibility is that the semen came from a medical lab. People who had a vasectomy have their semen tested for the presence of sperm at a lab. So someone at such a lab might have easy access to such semen. And the donor would be completely random.