MI - Nevaeh Buchanan, 5, Monroe, 24 May 2009 - Body found - #6

[Scarlett]

Could a cooler such as this one have been taken down that slope?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Disposal of Naveah's body: Theories

I am so new to this site...where is that thread? How do I get to it?

I think that type of cooler could be used. With wheels and that type of handle, he could have used a rope to tie it to himself and just let it drag behind him on the way down.

Maybe it is easier than it looks. The fishermen who found her are not spring chickens and they got down there. I guess I won't know how difficult it is until I go down there. Clearly (from the memorial) plenty of people have made it down there.

 

[Scarlett]

WOW! there is a whole Nevaeh forum! I am still figuring out how to get around here. I didn't know there was a whole forum! I thought that there was just this thread.

 

[A_Closer_Look]

Maybe it is easier than it looks. The fishermen who found her are not spring chickens and they got down there. I guess I won't know how difficult it is until I go down there. Clearly (from the memorial) plenty of people have made it down there.

It's probably a lot easier with 2 people. Those fishermen likely had tackle boxes, drinks, rods, possibly a cooler, etc... but they had something that definitely made it easier for them... each other.

I can see Someone carefully making their way down and then someone up top tossing or sliding things down to them. Then maybe person up top leaves in the vehicle and person at the bottom does the business. No car up top means even if someone drives by, there's no chance of seeing anything. Then maybe person who took vehicle comes back at a predetermined time, maybe 20 minutes later or something... to pick up person 2. Hence the rushed feel to the whole thing.

Just speculating...

 

[kiki the parrot]

I know I'll be bombarded, but I want to say this about Jennifer! Why is it that so many people need to cast guilt and blame on her? This young woman (24yo) has just lost her child in the most horrible of circumstances...yes, she was guilty for not following her child upstairs, downstairs, and outside, but how many mothers do the exact same thing? I don't see ANY benefit in continuing to discuss why and how Jennifer is guilty...I want to discuss how and why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete! Children disappear from their beds, from rich people, poor people, educated, intelligent, and uneducated and low IQ...there are NO barriers protecting children from pedophiles, murderers, or abuse...all children are vulnerable. You can talk about what constitutes 'good mothering' all you want, and each of us would have different perspective.


...is there any such thing as the perfect mother? We view mothering from our own vantage point, our role models, lifestyle, IQ, education, status, and ability to make, what we feel, are good JUDGEMENTS...and the like. The NG interview was a disgrace to everyone who wants to support a grieving mother who is in agony and is feeling guilt. Jennifer has managed to live her life with the defenses of denial and minimization - maybe that's how she, herself has survived. Her child was found encased in CEMENT...a crime more like the mafia rather than a pedophile....she has to deal with this tragedy in the best way she knows how.

And as long as we persist in denying and minimizing by excusing and cloaking parental neglect, childish values, selfish priorities and poor judgment under the guise of "she's doing her best," or on grounds of "no mother's perfect," we here at WS and more importantly those in LE, FBI and morgues across the country, will only find themselves busier and busier w child victims.

Even here at WS, I don't see us collectively solving and getting convictions on every past and potential future molestor and murderer... theoretically, the parent IS the ultimate BARRIER, and in addressing the absence of this final safeguard *I* TOO am discussing why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete.

arrot:

 

[Scarlett]

It's probably a lot easier with 2 people. Those fishermen likely had tackle boxes, drinks, rods, possibly a cooler, etc... but they had something that definitely made it easier for them... each other.

I can see Someone carefully making their way down and then someone up top tossing or sliding things down to them. Then maybe person up top leaves in the vehicle and person at the bottom does the business. No car up top means even if someone drives by, there's no chance of seeing anything. Then maybe person who took vehicle comes back at a predetermined time, maybe 20 minutes later or something... to pick up person 2. Hence the rushed feel to the whole thing.

Just speculating...

for some reason I always think of it having been one person, but you are absolutely right...it would be far easier with two.

I am off for the night. 11:30 here and I need to get ready for bed. toddler will wake me up in the morning, so I can't stay up late.

 

[eyes4crime]

And as long as we persist in denying and minimizing by excusing and cloaking parental neglect, childish values, selfish priorities and poor judgment under the guise of "she's doing her best," and on the grounds of "no mother's perfect" we here at WS and more importantly those in LE, FBI and morgues across the country will only find themselves busier and busier w child victims.

Even here at WS, I don't see us collectively solving and getting indictments on every past and potential future molestor and murderer... ultimately the parent IS the ultimate BARRIER and in addressing the absence of this final safeguard *I* TOO am discussing why beautiful Nevaeh was found in concrete.

arrot:

Since the blame on here is toward mom, how would you go about changing a 24yo, single mom's personality? Maybe denial and minimization is how she survived...Do you really expect people to do more than the 'best they can do at the time'? maybe there should be certificates for parenthood based on judgement, IQ, knowledge, rap sheets, life history and genetics.


I have pretty good judgment, I'm educated, and have developed certain qualities over time - I certainly didn't have them all at age 24. In retrospect, I can't say with certainty I never put my children in danger while raising them. I can't say with certainty I understood pedophiles the way I do now. I can't say with certainty that age 24 and in crisis, I would be a whole lot better than Jennifer on national TV being pounded by the likes of NG. I live in the Midwest and it DOES get dark around 9:00pm..why did NG confuse her by repeating 7:30? Everyone has judgments on what makes a 'good enough' parent and those judgments are based on a person's frame of reference. I'm not in a position to judge Jennifer, I am in the position to try and figure out why her little girl was found dead in cement. And as long as I continue to blame her lack of parenting, my success in understanding this crime will be null. Of course her lifestyle and judgement had something to do with it...but what else happened and why.

 

[cleo612]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090607/NEWS05/906070501

"I looked everywhere," she said. "I spent at least 45 minutes looking."

She said she told the apartment manager her daughter was missing, circled the building and came around the other side, where she found the purple and green scooter Nevaeh often rode.

"My heart sank," she said, "and my stomach went into knots."

Somebody called the police, and an Amber Alert was issued.

In other words, it took JB somewhere between 45 minutes and TWO HOURS to walk around ONE building.

JB states that she looked for Nevaeh for about 45 minutes, yet it was almost two hours after being told that she was playing in the "road" before the police were called.

Why the heck would it take THAT long to walk around ONE building?

 

[White Hawk]

There is one person here that has escaped blame so far. That is the low life that took her. For that we can blame societies low standards now days and the lax court systems. Yes I believe that Jen made mistakes and it could have very well contributed to her daughters disappearance simply by making it so easy for the perp. I truly believe in my heart that we are all to blame in some small way because we have let standards slip so low and let our judicial system cut so many corners. Most people don't want to get involved unless it affects then directly. Thank God they are many people on this web site that are not like that!

 

[STEADFAST]

In other words, it took JB somewhere between 45 minutes and TWO HOURS to walk around ONE building.

JB states that she looked for Nevaeh for about 45 minutes, yet it was almost two hours after being told that she was playing in the "road" before the police were called.

Why the heck would it take THAT long to walk around ONE building?

Here's the part from that same link that makes no sense to me (alright, one of the parts that makes no sense.)

According to JB, Neveah headed upstairs to go to Austin's. Then:


"About 20 minutes later, a girl Buchanan described as a tattletale knocked on the door.

"She looked right at me and says, 'Nevaeh is on her scooter in the road,' " Buchanan said. "She said the road, but I knew she meant the parking lot."

Buchanan was angry at her daughter [apparently for riding her scooter in the street] and said she looked for her flip-flops so she could go out to find her. A moment later, another girl knocked.

"Is Nevaeh home?" Buchanan remembers the girl asking. "And I said, 'She has to be upstairs at Austin's, but she is either out back, or out front, or upstairs at Austin's.' "

If she was really headed out to tell Nevaeh to stop riding her scooter in the street, why would she tell that child that Nevaeh was probably upstairs at Austins? Why didn't she say that Nevaeh was out in the parking lot riding her scooter? And why mention she looked for her flip flops?? To explain away time?

I don't think she did anything when the girl told her Neveah was riding in the street. I don't think she went to find Nevaeh for an hour or so after she was told that.
Makes much more sense she started searching around 7:30. Searched for 45 min and then "someone" called the police at 8:15.

 

[eyes4crime]

There is one person here that has escaped blame so far. That is the low life that took her. For that we can blame societies low standards now days and the lax court systems. Yes I believe that Jen made mistakes and it could have very well contributed to her daughters disappearance simply by making it so easy for the perp. I truly believe in my heart that we are all to blame in some small way because we have let standards slip so low and let our judicial system cut so many corners. Most people don't want to get involved unless it affects then directly. Thank God they are many people on this web site that are not like that!

The person responsible for encasing Nevaeh in cement has not escaped my blame - that's what I want to focus on. Let's just say the perp knew that Jennifer hung around with sex offenders....maybe he also knew she had served time in prison. That's two very important scenarios that would cause intense suspicions toward mom and friends when Nevaeh went missing. A smart perp would use all that to his advantage. While running away with beautiful Nevaeh, murdering her and encasing her in cement, he knew Jennifer and friends would be the center of everyones' suspicion. Seems to me that scenio would exist if a pedophile took Nevaeh or there was a huge grudge toward someone.

Your so right about our court system - there should never be a plea bargain for a pedophile or rapist. The judges and Prosecutors need to be educated regarding sex crimes, especially those with children. You're so right - we are all responsible.

 

[Melly53]

Excellent point about the supposed time she spent searching. And I have to agree with what Nursebeeme mentioned back in post 141.....why in all of that time would she not have gone upstairs to ask if Nevaeh was there, or if she had even been there at all? Wouldn't that be the next logical place that you would look for her if you did not find her in the parking lot?

Sorry but her stories have more holes than swiss cheese IMO.

 

[eyes4crime]

Excellent point about the supposed time she spent searching. And I have to agree with what Nursebeeme mentioned back in post 141.....why in all of that time would she not have gone upstairs to ask if Nevaeh was there, or if she had even been there at all? Wouldn't that be the next logical place that you would look for her if you did not find her in the parking lot?

Sorry but her stories have more holes than swiss cheese IMO.

Her stories are so variable, I'm beginning to wonder if she was sleeping, high, or not even there. Mom Jen doesn't even seem to be aware of her many inconsistent time-lines. I think Jen forgets she is saying all this in front of national TV. Can't imagine what her interviews with PD have been like.

Good night all - my first time here has been an exercise of the mind..it's been great.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Since the blame on here is toward mom, how would you go about changing a 24yo, single mom's personality? Maybe denial and minimization is how she survived...Do you really expect people to do more than the 'best they can do at the time'? maybe there should be certificates for parenthood based on judgement, IQ, knowledge, rap sheets, life history and genetics.


I have pretty good judgment, I'm educated, and have developed certain qualities over time - I certainly didn't have them all at age 24. In retrospect, I can't say with certainty I never put my children in danger while raising them. I can't say with certainty I understood pedophiles the way I do now. I can't say with certainty that age 24 and in crisis, I would be a whole lot better than Jennifer on national TV being pounded by the likes of NG. I live in the Midwest and it DOES get dark around 9:00pm..why did NG confuse her by repeating 7:30? Everyone has judgments on what makes a 'good enough' parent and those judgments are based on a person's frame of reference. I'm not in a position to judge Jennifer, I am in the position to try and figure out why her little girl was found dead in cement. And as long as I continue to blame her lack of parenting, my success in understanding this crime will be null. Of course her lifestyle and judgement had something to do with it...but what else happened and why.

Anyone familiar w me around here knows I am hardly here in defense of NG lol (think maybe she was given the wrong last name?)
:biggrin:
But as long as we waste time blaming NG, our success in understanding either contributors or opportunity for this crime will be null. I agree that all parents have at one time or another probably unwittingly put a child in harm's way. (Even NG humbly admitted she left her babies where they were able to roll off the bed omg ) The law itself distinguishes or 'judges' whether neglect is willful and criminal--and rightfully so. Did you as a parent of any age expose your children to pedophiles? Is there alot to 'understand' about adults who molest children when it comes to our child's safety? As a society we need to be clear it isn't "judgmental" to speak out against child neglect/abuse, which is the very trap into which Nevaeh's mother fell head first. "I didn't want to be judgmental," "I believe in second chances," yada yada. Parents listen up. Take chances on your own time. Don't invite or introduce known sex offenders, lewd and lacivious molestors, or predators to spend time with your children.

Truthfully, after what I read here, and just what I observe right here in my own community, I'm honestly beginning to believe some parents should be licensed. When the couple nextdoor (who, despite repeated concerned warnings, are too busy everyday watching tv to get up off their lazy behinds and follow their 3 year-old outside, whom I've brought to them crying injured eg from the playground, rescued from the middle of the parking lot, ad infinitum but who nevertheless still continue protesting in angry "denial" that they can 'see' their child--from three buildings down--as they go about "minimizing" those risks of injuries, cars backing over their child, or worse) one day learn their child has met w harm, are they "victims?" I know, that's when the wailing and wringing of hands will begin...

Even the bible says to first "remove the beam from our own eye"--not that we oughtn't ever judge any behavior or have any standards but that we need to judge ourselves FIRST before we may see clearly another's actions. If I'm doing the same thing, making excuses why I can't watch my own little girl while criticizing another, that's not only judgmental it's hypocritical. I agree "nobody's perfect" and sure there are those random crimes where some are victimized despite every precaution. But we don't need to invite all the foxes in to guard the chicken coop either, and those who understand their responsibility to children at least take every measure to minimize those chances.

arrot:

 

[nursebeeme]

I am just rewatching the interview NG and Jennifer.. I have noticed the first inconsistent statement:

She said that Neveah went upstairs to play.

Nancy asks her when she first figured out her child was missing and she said "about thirty minutes after she went outside"

So okay Jennifer.. what is it..... did you know Neveah went outside and not upstairs?

Also she says that she grabbed a popcicle on the way out of the door. If I were LE I would be looking for that popcicle stick!!!! Was it in the stairwell? On the ground outside? She had to have dropped it somewhere. If she started eating it when she walked out of the door how long does it take a kid to eat one and where did she leave the stick? It could help to trace the general direction she was headed...

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Nancy is really grilling Jennifer.

 

[concentric]

The person responsible for encasing Nevaeh in cement has not escaped my blame - that's what I want to focus on. Let's just say the perp knew that Jennifer hung around with sex offenders....maybe he also knew she had served time in prison. That's two very important scenarios that would cause intense suspicions toward mom and friends when Nevaeh went missing. A smart perp would use all that to his advantage. While running away with beautiful Nevaeh, murdering her and encasing her in cement, he knew Jennifer and friends would be the center of everyones' suspicion.

I've thought of that angle also. Who would know that information? Could it be someone no one would suspect, but living in or working at that complex who often observed and listened to what was going on with the family and "friends?"

If it is, who? A neighbor, a maintenance person, friend of a friend?

 

[nursebeeme]

goodnight peeps! Here's to hoping for the best in lady justice...for little Neveah

 

[bessie]

Goodnight, Nurse.

 

[Forensic fan]

I am just rewatching the interview NG and Jennifer.. I have noticed the first inconsistent statement:

She said that Neveah went upstairs to play.

Nancy asks her when she first figured out her child was missing and she said "about thirty minutes after she went outside"
So okay Jennifer.. what is it..... did you know Neveah went outside and not upstairs?
Also she says that she grabbed a popcicle on the way out of the door. If I were LE I would be looking for that popcicle stick!!!! Was it in the stairwell? On the ground outside? She had to have dropped it somewhere. If she started eating it when she walked out of the door how long does it take a kid to eat one and where did she leave the stick? It could help to trace the general direction she was headed...

They live in the basement of the building. She has to go upstairs to get outside, maybe that is what is confusing.

 

[STEADFAST]

Goodnight, Nurse.

My mom used to say that all the time! (Oops, OT):angel: