GUILTY MI - Ramsay Scrivo, 32, found dismembered, St Clair County, 27 Jan 2014 - #1

[AstroKitty]

Why would he even want to hang himself when his dad died? He loved his dad so much that he would hang himself? That doesn't even make any sense.

Im not being snotty but it's going to come across that way, and I apologize but I'm assuming you've never felt suicidal?

When you lose someone and you're overcome with grief, you miss them so much you swear your heart literally has broken (it feels so heavy in your chest) - you'll cry yourself into oblivion and wonder how you can feel better. At some point it may come across your sleep deprived and weary mind that suicide, that death would mean you could end your pain and be with them. Some people are drawn to shooting themselves. Some people are driven to jump and others feel hanging or an overdose suits them.

It's not unusual that he wanted to die, the grief was too much for his mind. He obviously felt that hanging himself would be the most painless way to go.

 

[Equinista]

Anxiety issues is far removed from "psychosis" (what the media first reported). I don't know if anyone here has experienced generalized anxiety disorder (or has it) and or panic attacks, but they are debilitating. Anxiety does NOT equal murderous or homicidal, it's actually the opposite. If you've ever had a panic attack, could you imagine yourself having rage and being able to carry out damage to others? When I have panic attacks I tend to retreat and feel like I'm having a damn heart attack. The remarks about "hanging" himself in order to commit suicide does not make him angry or homicidal either. Again, the media really reached with this one. Im guessing his anger was probably holes in the wall and inwards towards himself, which frightened his family.

I suffer from severe Social Anxiety Disorder/Agoraphobia and Panic attacks...So I understand anxiety quite well, sadly. A Panic attack makes you want to curl up in a ball in your room and be alone, and it literally feels like your heart is about to explode, and I hyperventilate a lot.

 

[Marg from Oz]

Morphine missing from the house when father died!!! She says Ramsey was very sleepy.
I would imagine her being a nurse the morphine was in vials for injecting. Did the husband get an overdose? if he was terminal there probably would not have been an autopsy.

Another thought. There is an arm missing. Is this missing deliberately to hide puncture marks? i'm thinking he would have had to be given something potent to knock him out.

So what happened to the missing morphine and how much was missing?

 

[Scottndianner]

Morphine missing from the house when father died!!! She says Ramsey was very sleepy.
I would imagine her being a nurse the morphine was in vials for injecting. Did the husband get an overdose? if he was terminal there probably would not have been an autopsy.

Another thought. There is an arm missing. Is this missing deliberately to hide puncture marks? i'm thinking he would have had to be given something potent to knock him out.

So what happened to the missing morphine and how much was missing?

An arm was missing? Wow. I must have missed that...

 

[pieper4]

So, per the most recently linked article (http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20140203/st-clair-shores-woman-was-distraught-over-sons-mental-problems), he never lived in the home he bought as of June 2013. Wonder where he lived for over 8 years? Home with mom and late-dad, I would suppose.
Also wonder, if pain meds were missing, are we looking at a substance abuser who managed to fly under the radar, or if that was an isolated (alleged) instance... that bolstered mom's attempts to have him hospitalized. This just gets creepier all the time.

 

[AstroKitty]

Also, morphine is not given to anyone as an injectable. It's given in tablet form, either IR or ER (instant release or extended release). If a person cannot swallow then it's given rectally.

& this is known because, how? His mother who ended up chopping him up said so? There is no proof - just her word. No proof of his detox off of morphine (which is nasty and as bad as heroin withdrawal. He would have gone through it at the psych facility)

Also: "Court records say she worked part-time at St. John Hospital and Medical Center in Detroit from 1989 to 2004, when she was fired"

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-...oman-was-distraught-over-sons-mental-problems

 

[KBL100]

Also, morphine is not given to anyone as an injectable. It's given in tablet form, either IR or ER (instant release or extended release). If a person cannot swallow then it's given rectally.

Morphine patches

 

[AstroKitty]

Morphine patches

Eh... I'm holding off on believing that he was given that until it's said. Fentanyl is more common than morphine patches.

I'm not trying to be combative, it's just this story has more twist and turns which end "eating" itself and then we have some new thing that's wrong with Ramsay. A lot of victim blaming. He went from psychotic to being a drug addict and thieving pills from his deceased dad PER HIS MOTHER. I'm rather cynical.

I think she's full of it and had ulterior motives. Why hasn't anyone said anything about him being f'd up on pills? A habit on morphine doesn't just go away. If it was patches... he would have been REALLY messed up. I mean, severally. Addicts chew the patches, not wear them. And if he was suicidal... morphine is an easy way to overdose. Most people think it's a peaceful overdose (it isn't). Patches = a very quick OD. Instead he wanted to hang himself.

I'm calling BS on this story from the media.

 

[KBL100]

Also, morphine is not given to anyone as an injectable. It's given in tablet form, either IR or ER (instant release or extended release). If a person cannot swallow then it's given rectally.

& this is known because, how? His mother who ended up chopping him up said so? There is no proof - just her word. No proof of his detox off of morphine (which is nasty and as bad as heroin withdrawal. He would have gone through it at the psych facility)

Also: "Court records say she worked part-time at St. John Hospital and Medical Center in Detroit from 1989 to 2004, when she was fired"

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-...oman-was-distraught-over-sons-mental-problems

BBM Hearing all the new stuff in the media I'm wondering where it is coming from. She testified to things in court previously when she was trying to get him into the hospital and get guardianship. I'm just not sure I can believe it all. So many different stories I think I need to wait until more info comes out. He lived alone and suppored himself...now they say he never lived there because of unfinished renovation. He supported himself.....now his parents paid half his bills. The fathers "sudden death" .... "terminal illness." I'm not sure what to believe.

 

[MLO]

Looking on her facebook page I see a very attractive woman who doesn't look her 60 years. She has apparently looked after herself. I would never pick her as being a sadistic murderer. You never can tell. JMO

I agree. I think she looks fab for 60! All this talk of dark eyes etc. I think Ramsay's eyes look the same, except the fact that he obviously hasn't age as much as she has.

 

[AstroKitty]

BBM Hearing all the new stuff in the media I'm wondering where it is coming from. She testified to things in court previously when she was trying to get him into the hospital and get guardianship. I'm just not sure I can believe it all. So many different stories I think I need to wait until more info comes out. He lived alone and suppored himself...now they say he never lived there because of unfinished renovation. He supported himself.....now his parents paid half his bills. The fathers "sudden death" .... "terminal illness." I'm not sure what to believe.

Agreed. I notice with a lot of cases like this, the things we hear first are usually the closest to the truth. I think you too had read the comments from Ramsay's friends, and while it's considered hear-say - they all stated his dad had a sudden death.

I read through the obit and facebooks, nothing hinted towards cancer, diabetes, heart disease etc. Most obit's will have a "please send donations to..." but there was nothing. There was not talk of anything other than missing him.

My other point with the morphine *supposed* use, you would be doing a lot more than sleeping all the time. You itch, you are cranky, you nod out, you slur your words - and when it runs out? You go and score more. It bleeds onto everything in your life.

He also looked rather healthy for a pill popper. I have a lot of sober time and my poison was opiates. My 2nd job is as a registered nurse. I'm not getting the druggie vibe off of him. I'm not saying it DIDNT happen, but I'm wondering why the story has changed so rapidly and who these sources are.

Seems like the press is trying to justify her behavior and vilify Ramsay. Does she have ties to the community, politically?

 

[AstroKitty]

Im going to leave this here because we were all trying to place this together earlier.

"Scrivo, who turns 60 on Tuesday, appeared May 17 in front of Probate Judge Carl Marlinga in Mount Clemens, two days after her son, Ramsey Scrivo, was admitted to the psychiatric floor of St. John Hospital on the same day his father died following a lengthy illness, according to court documents. Morphine in the home was missing and Ramsey was “difficult to wake up,” Donna Scrivo said in court documents."

Odd ain't it? He's not even buried yet and she's trying to get guardianship? I understand getting someone help so they don't harm themselves, but what's the rush with guardianship?

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-...oman-was-distraught-over-sons-mental-problems

 

[Marg from Oz]

Also, morphine is not given to anyone as an injectable. It's given in tablet form, either IR or ER (instant release or extended release). If a person cannot swallow then it's given rectally.

& this is known because, how? His mother who ended up chopping him up said so? There is no proof - just her word. No proof of his detox off of morphine (which is nasty and as bad as heroin withdrawal. He would have gone through it at the psych facility)

Also: "Court records say she worked part-time at St. John Hospital and Medical Center in Detroit from 1989 to 2004, when she was fired"

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-...oman-was-distraught-over-sons-mental-problems

Sorry to disagree with you but morphine comes in vials and is given sub cut.
How do I know this? Because I have been giving it for years. Especially to palliative care patients. It is also given orally in a liquid form. Cancer patients who are not bed bound take it in liquid form for breakthrough pain. There are also patients who take it in tablet form who are have not reached the stage of palliative care.

Retired R.N. No longer registered.

 

[AstroKitty]

Sorry to disagree with you but morphine comes in vials and is given sub cut.
How do I know this? Because I have been giving it for years. Especially to palliative care patients. It is also given orally in a liquid form. Cancer patients who are not bed bound take it in liquid form for breakthrough pain. There are also patients who take it in tablet form who are have not reached the stage of palliative care.

Retired R.N. No longer registered.

I have literally never seen that sent home with someone, ever. Not saying it doesn't happen but I don't think it's too common. Are you in the states? I don't think vials were in this case. I respect your knowledge, so please don't take it the wrong way. When my father in law passed from cancer (fast moving to the brain), we had to rectally give his meds in the end. We weren't given vials. I work in the psych field but did my clinic in the usual (triage, PEDS and NICU).
So my experience is different. I'm gonna have to research this because I don't think it's common here.

 

[Marg from Oz]

I have literally never seen that sent home with someone, ever. Not saying it doesn't happen but I don't think it's too common. Are you in the states? I don't think vials were in this case. I respect your knowledge, so please don't take it the wrong way. When my father in law passed from cancer (fast moving to the brain), we had to rectally give his meds in the end. We weren't given vials. I work in the psych field but did my clinic in the usual (triage, PEDS and NICU).
So my experience is different. I'm gonna have to research this because I don't think it's common here.

No I'm not in the States, I am in Australia. I also have done post grad in Psychiatric Nursing. Worked in a Psych Forensic unit where the patients had killed someone while in a psychosis. Fascinating reading their files. One young boy killed his grandparents because he was convinced they were imposters. One man whose wife had multiple sclerosis was in a psychotic state where he was convinced she had aids and was trying to kill him. He tried to make her drink poison but she wouldn't take it so he strangled her with a belt. He had been there a number of years and was responding well to medication. Then a couple of years later I read in the newspaper that he was preparing to go back into society when he went and killed one of the patients. Some will never be released because none of he psych drugs work on them. The list goes on with the most bizzar halucinations. I personally know one who killed his old school friend because "She had the devil in her". He then came to a friend of my husband's and told him he had killed a devil and he wanted him to help him get rid of the devil and that my husband's friend also had the devil in him and he could kill the devil but not hurt him. my husband's friend quickly made up an excuse to get away for a few minutes and rang the police. In the meantime his father came home and found the girl dead, shot in the stomach. He was committed to the Forensic unit and was not charged with murder because he was not mentally able to plead. He was diagnosed with schitzophrenia. Spent 10 years in there and is now out doing well on his meds. He was the son everyone would want. Repected his parents, worked, didn't smoke or drink then out of the blue at about 23 years of age his whole world changed. There was no warning signs.


P.S. If you google morphine you will see all of the doses and methods of administration.
Please excuse typos. Am on a tablet.

 

[zwiebel]

It's interesting she was fired for medication errors. Or it is to me, anyhow. Probably because I'm English and we had the pleasure of Dr Harold Shipman aka Dr Death here. Caught because he started helping himself to patients' money as well as 'helping' them to their death. Morphine was his drug of choice. He was so calculating he even timed his suicide in jail exactly, so his wife would gain the maximum pension benefits.

 

[TobyWong*]

I'm an adult foster care provider in MI. We have had multiple hospice patients that have passed in our home. A few have been prescribed morphine near the end. In pill form until they can no longer swallow then in liquid. (Dropper under tounge not injection) We are state licensed but not nurses and are given instruction on how to administer to ease the patients pain until their final breath by hospice nurses. We are then held accountable for med documentation and to return any unused meds to hospice nurse/agency.

Imo her being a nurse might have encouraged other health professionals/family to believe whatever she said. Just saying.

As of right now I'm going w/ the money angle w/ all these close people passing in her life. Insurance, wills, who knows. A lot of death in one year. I'd imagine her son would need some mental help as many people do to cope w/ the death of a loved one. To me her actions w/ dismemberment and disposal speak louder to her mental health than anything I've read about her son's. Jmo.

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm an adult foster care provider in MI. We have had multiple hospice patients that have passed in our home. A few have been prescribed morphine near the end. In pill form until they can no longer swallow then in liquid. (Dropper under tounge not injection) We are state licensed but not nurses and are given instruction on how to administer to ease the patients pain until their final breath by hospice nurses. We are then held accountable for med documentation and to return any unused meds to hospice nurse/agency.

Imo her being a nurse might have encouraged other health professionals/family to believe whatever she said. Just saying.

As of right now I'm going w/ the money angle w/ all these close people passing in her life. Insurance, wills, who knows. A lot of death in one year. I'd imagine her son would need some mental help as many people do to cope w/ the death of a loved one. To me her actions w/ dismemberment and disposal speak louder to her mental health than anything I've read about her son's. Jmo.

I absolutely agree with all of this.

 

[Elley Mae]

Donna had been staying with her son ever since her home suffered fire damage in the fall and was being repaired.

http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/i...-bags-along-back-lanes&Itemid=4#axzz2sMMGW0pI

In court on Monday, Donna scanned the room as if she was looking for someone - though none of her family seemed to have attended.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have a very good friend that was in a seriously bad car accident years ago. She suffered spinal nerve damage, among other damage to her person. She had numerous surgeries and has been left with a chronic pain that she cannot "get used to". Her surgeon implanted a morphine pump in her back to control her pain. She's had this implant for 2 years thus far. Morphine is kept in her home and is administered in her home. She inserts it into her catheter.

Not saying anybody had to have a morphine pump on this case, but wanted to note that morphine can be kept at home.