Michelle Young. Murdered Pregnant Mom, NC Part 12

[curious1]

...snip

2) Does it destroy the blood sample, in regards to further blood testing (DNA, etc.)? - "No, luminol does not destroy DNA." (Wow, I thought it did)

I think if you over do it with the luminol you can degrade the DNA. Maybe you could ask the guru.

 

[Dominique]

DNA Guru's answers:

1) Luminol is used to try to find blood not seen by the naked eye (so no reason to spray on seen blood on floor or other item)

2) Does it destroy the blood sample, in regards to further blood testing (DNA, etc.)? - "No, luminol does not destroy DNA." (Wow, I thought it did)

I found this in explanation of the degrading effect of luminol...I too, was surprised that it does not destroy DNA.....

"Just because it can trace minuscule amounts of blood at an efficient manner, does not mean that it does not have any drawbacks in crime scene investigation. Because it can detect other chemicals and compounds, further testing is almost always required to determine if the reactant is blood. If so, then the process begins to establish the type of blood, and if it is the victim’s blood. If luminol is used, it can break down and cause a loss to several genetic markers used in genetic testing as well as destroy other important properties of the blood. While it can detect even small amounts of blood, the disadvantage is often that the small amount identified is diluted further by the luminol solution. For these reasons, luminol is encouraged to be used as a last resort in crime scenes to protect what little physical evidence there already is."

From the same;

"Often, luminol is used in biology and biochemistry for a multitude of testing. Chromatography, (which is a method for sorting chemical substances) immunoassay, (measures minute concentrations of biological matter in blood) DNA probes, and DNA fingerprinting, all use luminol as a testing reagent, and it is used as a substrate in western blot detection."

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I found this in explanation of the degrading effect of luminol...I too, was surprised that it does not destroy DNA.....

"Just because it can trace minuscule amounts of blood at an efficient manner, does not mean that it does not have any drawbacks in crime scene investigation. Because it can detect other chemicals and compounds, further testing is almost always required to determine if the reactant is blood. If so, then the process begins to establish the type of blood, and if it is the victim’s blood. If luminol is used, it can break down and cause a loss to several genetic markers used in genetic testing as well as destroy other important properties of the blood. While it can detect even small amounts of blood, the disadvantage is often that the small amount identified is diluted further by the luminol solution. For these reasons, luminol is encouraged to be used as a last resort in crime scenes to protect what little physical evidence there already is."

That makes it sound like it would have a negative impact on DNA. Maybe the difference is it damages it to a certain extent, but doesn't completely destroy it? What am I not understanding?

 

[raisincharlie]

RC,

All I can tell you is what I saw. There were guys in white suits (hazmat like jumpsuits) carrying big black garbage bags out of the house to put on a waiting truck, a mattress was the ONLY thing I could say for sure that I saw. It was a very brief clip.

Cheers!

I don't doubt you since you saw the report and made the call to confirm - no problem here, your word is good enough. I just wonder why all this stuff was still there to start with and why it is a WCSO crew that is being held to remove it since the family contracted someone to clean the house. Just seems odd, if it is trash generated by CCBI, can't figure why it would have been left behind. I just don't know why WCSO would be responsible for the removal and disposal of a matress either - had it been collected as evidence I understand but otherwise I don't get it. Creepy

 

[Dominique]

and from Wiki...take it, as always, w/some salt as Wiki is as Wiki does and is not always correct...(I like Wiki for a fast answer tho).

Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

"Luminol also fluoresces in the presence of copper or an alloy of copper, horseradish and certain bleaches and as result if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a weak bleach solution (5-6 drops per L), residual bleach will cause the entire crime scene to fluoresce, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence such as blood.
Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine and it can be distorted if animal blood was present in the room that is being tested.
Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it was blood.
Luminol presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[4]
Luminol is a possible carcinogen, but has not yet been proved as such.[citation needed]"

 

[raisincharlie]

DNA Guru's answers:

1) Luminol is used to try to find blood not seen by the naked eye (so no reason to spray on seen blood on floor or other item)

2) Does it destroy the blood sample, in regards to further blood testing (DNA, etc.)? - "No, luminol does not destroy DNA." (Wow, I thought it did)

3) Bloody footprints at scene - how are they collected for evidence, besides scaled photos? "Cut out whatever the print is on (linoleum, tile, etc.) You can also use a chemical called amido black - it reacts with the protein in blood and basically creates a permanent stain of the print. You then take pics with a ruler and make comparisons to shoes."

hahahahaha...here's more of our email, :crazy:

Me - "You must have think I've just lost it!"
Him - "Not totally, but if I get called out and have things you questioned as evidence, I might start to wonder!"

Me - "I owe you lots and lots of chocolate for this."
Him - "MMMMM, dark chocolate is my favorite. Keep it coming."

DD

ETA: Thought I'd at least mention what his title is, in case someone wondered if he really is the resident DNA guru. It's "Forensic Scientist, Serology/DNA." So...if he says luminol doesn't destroy further DNA testing, he should know!

I have read somewhere that indeed the luminol does not inhibit DNA testing as it once did - mainly due to the advances in DNA testing and use of other agents such as forsline (sp). So yep, your guru should know. If you need donations for the chocolate fund - let me know !

 

[Dominique]

That makes it sound like it would have a negative impact on DNA. Maybe the difference is it damages it to a certain extent, but doesn't completely destroy it? What am I not understanding?

Maybe the degrading effect is not on larger amts. of sample but a slight or trace sample of blood could be degraded...that is what I am thinking...thanks, tho, I learned something in that Luminol does not always destroy DNA...I think it dilutes the smaller samples...that is all.

Keep the knowledge going tho, DD...I appreciate clarification. I think in the MY scene of crime that the blood evidence had to be copious. Luminol would not be degrading that crime scene. :twocents:

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Maybe the degrading effect is not on larger amts. of sample but a slight or trace sample of blood could be degraded...that is what I am thinking...thanks, tho, I learned something in that Luminol does not always destroy DNA...I think it dilutes the smaller samples...that is all.

Keep the knowledge going tho, DD...I appreciate clarification. I think in the MY scene of crime that the blood evidence had to be copious. Luminol would not be degrading that crime scene. :twocents:

Oh so sad, huh?
:razz: :razz: :razz: to the monster who did this.

 

[pack_fan]

I don't doubt you since you saw the report and made the call to confirm - no problem here, your word is good enough. I just wonder why all this stuff was still there to start with and why it is a WCSO crew that is being held to remove it since the family contracted someone to clean the house. Just seems odd, if it is trash generated by CCBI, can't figure why it would have been left behind. I just don't know why WCSO would be responsible for the removal and disposal of a matress either - had it been collected as evidence I understand but otherwise I don't get it. Creepy

You guys just don't get it do you?

It had nothing to do with the wcso and any cleaning crew. It was gojo, jtf, gbmy, and a few others dressed in the garb. It is obvious to me since they have all the info related to bloody footprints, jelly beans, and lion king dvds. I thought you guys considered yourselves to be sleuths. Sheesh, I'm embarrased to be here.

 

[scandi]

How cool to become lay experts on a forensic matter. Thanks for everyone's input. One thing in the forensic crime shows that we all watch {I think ;}, is that the very first thing they do when they arrive on a crime scene and find even a spot of blood, is wipe the spot with a Qtip and put a drop of special liquid on it that tells if it is human blood.

So no more news today, huh? I wonder if there are any more SW's out there or that they will ask for at this point. That last SW was requested in Feb even though the evidence was collected right away. I was surprised they could do that. I'm hoping there was nothing pulled out of the house on Monday that will require a new SW. I know you guys don't think there will be as it could have been refuse left over from their first stint at the house.

 

[curious1]

:doh: How dumb of us Pack Fan. Thanks for pointing it out to us.

 

[raisincharlie]

:laugh: :laugh:

You guys just don't get it do you?

It had nothing to do with the wcso and any cleaning crew. It was gojo, jtf, gbmy, and a few others dressed in the garb. It is obvious to me since they have all the info related to bloody footprints, jelly beans, and lion king dvds. I thought you guys considered yourselves to be sleuths. Sheesh, I'm embarrased to be here.

I am now thoroughly humiliated

 

[curious1]

:laugh: :laugh:


I am now thoroughly humiliated

Think how I feel, me a Tarheel set straight by a Pack Fan.

 

[5bigfish5]

RC, I have been trying and trying to "quote" your #324 post and reply. "Gateway Timeout" is killing me!

I don't doubt you since you saw the report and made the call to confirm - no problem here, your word is good enough. I just wonder why all this stuff was still there to start with and why it is a WCSO crew that is being held to remove it since the family contracted someone to clean the house. Just seems odd, if it is trash generated by CCBI, can't figure why it would have been left behind. I just don't know why WCSO would be responsible for the removal and disposal of a matress either - had it been collected as evidence I understand but otherwise I don't get it. Creepy


Thanks Sweetie for the vote of confidence. :smile:

Your endorsement @ CTV was not necessary, but appreciated, none the less.

Hugs!

 

[5bigfish5]

You guys just don't get it do you?

It had nothing to do with the wcso and any cleaning crew. It was gojo, jtf, gbmy, and a few others dressed in the garb. It is obvious to me since they have all the info related to bloody footprints, jelly beans, and lion king dvds. I thought you guys considered yourselves to be sleuths. Sheesh, I'm embarrased to be here.

Pack_fan,

You are scaring me now. I know from living in the area and being in construction, plus my parents are in real estate, that there ARE "disaster" clean up crews. As I always understood it, hired by the family.

"Disaster One" & "First Response" are trucks that I have seen in the past.

I have said many times that I was out of town during the supposed "finding of the tooth chip", which has warped into the tusk of a mastodon.

I am anything, if not confused!

Cheers!

(If this goes through, you will hear the yell from your house.)

 

[raisincharlie]

Think how I feel, me a Tarheel set straight by a Pack Fan.

Hoo Ha - that is really bad isn't it ? I feel better now...:crazy: and I'm not a Duke fan, except I do believe the lady Blue Devils are on fire this year. I know, I know, but they did manage to take care of Latta, Little, and Larkins last week.

 

[Samiya]

She watched me for a while and then I heard all these little squeeks - she has baby foxes - raising them on her own I guess. Its very cold today and I noticed the pond was frozen so - no water source for Mom. I had to stop and break the ice so she would have something to drink. Will have to go back later and break it again so she will have water later. I rode away and stopped to look back - yep she came out to get a drink.

Sometimes we all need help getting a drink from the pond. Will bring her some dinner later...

You are such a honey, how sweet

Sami

 

[Samiya]

hahahahaha...here's more of our email, :crazy:

Me - "You must have think I've just lost it!"
Him - "Not totally, but if I get called out and have things you questioned as evidence, I might start to wonder!"

Me - "I owe you lots and lots of chocolate for this."
Him - "MMMMM, dark chocolate is my favorite. Keep it coming."

DD

LMAO!

He'll be on the lookout now, lol.

Dark chocolate is sold in 1 kilo blocks over here. Perhaps that'd satisfy him for awhile

Thanks for the info too. And hugs for your friend....ok big squishy hugs.

Sami

 

[Dominique]

Think how I feel, me a Tarheel set straight by a Pack Fan.

Big laugh! eek indeed!

 

[Dominique]

I have read somewhere that indeed the luminol does not inhibit DNA testing as it once did - mainly due to the advances in DNA testing and use of other agents such as forsline (sp). So yep, your guru should know. If you need donations for the chocolate fund - let me know !

RC, I loved your story/analogy about the mother fox and how "we all need help getting a drink from the pond". Very wise and kind you are!

Now you are donating to choco fund and the jelly beans...you are a MOTHER HEN!

And a very sweet and good person~who is pretty durn smart to boot!

All the best!