MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #10 - Chauvin Trial Day 7

[margarita25]

Do the jury instructions help explain the "envincing a depraved mind".

Quick google (cause I'm sleepy and lacking the will to look in depth currently)

"conduct demonstrating an indifference to the life of others, that is not only disregard for the safety of another but a lack of regard for the life of another"....

Source: Criminal Law and Procedure

Re: the depraved mind discussion, I’m just remembering there was a well known legal expert guest on one of the major news stations on day 1, and she was explaining this in laymen’s terms, (laywoman’s) and whatever she said made sense to me at the time wrt potentially being applicable to Chauvin. Iirc, it’s the lady with dark hair and glasses, making note to look for that. Ohhhhh, I think I may know where it is...it was right before Blackwell’s opening statement, I’ll find it. Brb with eta.)

(Eta it appears that commentary was cut out. Noting for later.)

 

[CrimeAway]

IMO, I did see some looking around by Nelson and Chauvin, and then Cahill raising his brow, during the last sidebar (around 7:09:00 to 7:09:35)

 

[CrimeAway]

Does anyone know where to find the nice graphic of the courtroom layout that was posted here before?

@Sillybilly ?

 

[ElizaKate]

Here's a Minnesota case with judge's jury instruction regarding depraved mind as an example:

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ases/27-CR-18-6859/JuryInstructions042919.pdf

This is really helpful thank you!

 

[margarita25]

Remember Henry Lee, forensic scientist? I just thought about him remembering past cases and trials (cruiseship murder and OJ).

Does anyone know where to find the nice graphic of the courtroom layout that was posted here before?

@Sillybilly ?

Here ya go, @CrimeAway

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #7 - Chauvin Trial Day 4


*I also linked it in the media thread here for future reference (post #34)

 

[Chelly]

I wonder if Schleicher asked to end early? That seems the most likely reason because I can’t imagine judge would cut the state off on such an important witness (although this is debatable) for them. I wonder if Schleicher felt like like something was amiss with the witnesses testimony and he needed more prep.

It is possible Schleicher didn't expect the last answer or two of his own witness' testimony? Was the witness testifying to Floyd possibly beginning to not resist at that point of the video? Has anyone rewatched the last few minutes of today's session?

 

[Chelly]

IMO, I did see some looking around by Nelson and Chauvin, and then Cahill raising his brow, during the last sidebar (around 7:09:00 to 7:09:35)

Just before the sidebar, did you catch what the prosecution witness was answering to?

 

[ElizaKate]

I noted at the time the witness was stating that the other officers decided not to do the “hobble” technique which would indicate that they believed GF was no longer resisting... why would that be a problem for the state?..what am I missing...

 

[Yemelyan]

Ah yes I was imagine there would be a lot more behind the scenes but I hadn't read that thanks. I'm sure defense has some extra people too but to have no one sharing the stand must be hard! Just mentally very tiring for him I would imagine.

Don't feel too bad for him....the appearance of working solo is part of the legal strategy used in the defense in this case IMO. As @Jax49 posted previously, he has help behind the scenes and lots of it:

Attorney Eric Nelson stands with Chauvin and Amy Voss – whom Nelson describes as his "assistant" but is a licensed attorney – on one side of the courtroom of Judge Peter Cahill....Despite appearances, Nelson is hardly working solo. Nelson, a private attorney with the firm Halberg Criminal Defense, has plenty of help from the Minneapolis Police and Peace Officers Association's legal defense fund. The group, Minnesota's largest federation of officers and unions, is paying for up to a dozen other attorneys working the case behind the scenes, according to MPPOA Executive Director Brian Peters. Nelson has assistance and lots of cash to spend on a trial that is likely to run at least a month, Peters said.

Derek Chauvin trial: Police fund aids defense lawyer Eric Nelson

 

[MsBetsy]

Thats interesting but the pure definition of "evincing" doesn't line up with that jury instruction but maybe in Minnesota that's how it's defined? The "knowledge that someone may be killed" in that jury instruction needs to be proven. Did Chauvin know that he was killing George Floyd? I think not nor has the prosecution presented evidence of that. Regardless, if you use the raw definition of "evincing" or this jury instruction definition I haven't seen evidence proving either.

I don't think he would've had to know he was killing him. He would just have to know that his actions "could" have led to serious bodily harm or death. Imo

 

[CrimeAway]

Just before the sidebar, did you catch what the prosecution witness was answering to?

Yes (slightly paraphrased)
Showing Ex.255 (bodycam still)

Pros Q: what assessment did they (the officers) have to make at this point?

A: well, um, based on the defendant's request for the ah, er, hobble, um, they had to assess whether to continue to apply the hobble to Mr Floyd.

Q: based on your view, did they do so?

A: No, they did not.

Q: And what does that suggest to you regarding their assessment of the dangerousness, or need to restrain Mr Floyd?

A: Um, based on my review, I would believe that they felt that he was starting to, eh comply, and his aggression was eh, starting to cease.

Q: And was that consistent then with your own observations of what you saw Mr Floyd do, as the video continued?

A: Yes

Pros: Eh, one moment.

This is transcribed by me, so MOO, as I may have made a small error.

 

[CrimeAway]

Here ya go, @CrimeAway

MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #7 - Chauvin Trial Day 4


*I also linked it in the media thread here for future reference (post #34)

Thank you @margarita25

 

[CrimeAway]

I wish we could hear the sidebars

 

[bluebird69]

Well i had zoned out listening to this, but on rewind thought that the witness stated he had noticed GF try to kick an officers arm away so was still resisting?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I could be wrong, but I believe this has been shown to not be true.

They've shown this pic in court several times and on the video. I'll go back to see if I can find the video.
picture of Chauvin - Google Search

 

[MsBetsy]

Daily Mail picked up on that horrific (MOO) image

Derek Chauvin's bodycam seen discarded under patrol car during George Floyd's arrest | Daily Mail Online

That's a perfect example of how a stillshot capturing a few seconds can be misleading. In that image it looks like he is trying to strangle him but we know that's not true. It's important to look at the whole picture.

Still, it does show that Chauvin didn't attempt to consider any other reasonable options when he arrived at the scene. In fact the officers (allegedly) had told them they didn't need backup anymore. Yet he immediately began struggling with Floyd. He didn't even try talking to him or trying to reason with him. I wonder if he recognized him. He would have been the only one on the scene who was familiar with him, if it's true that they knew each other. Imo

 

[turaj]

If I remember correctly, it was stated yesterday that MPD has around 700 officers so rather a large proportion on medical leave then if these figures are correct JMO

the lost many officers in the last few years and recruiting is not going well.

 

[Simply Southern]

looks like in the neck to me!

I thought so, as well. However after seeing the other photos and enlarging... moo it appears to me Chauvin is turned at an inward angle and his knee is in his shoulder blade. His foot is even turned sideways, showing he could not be applying pressure.

I originally thought, based on just the witness video his knee on the neck but seeing the other angle of the LE video he was on his shoulder blade.

MOO, fluid and subject to change.

 

[Simply Southern]

How anyone can dispute that chauvin’s knee was in HIS NECK is beyond me!

I’ve had a hard time with the photo from the beginning. It just didn’t seem possible to reproduce the knee on the neck with his foot turned inward.
I’ve gotten down on the floor with a pillow numerous times and tried to duplicate. When my ankle/foot is turned inward I found it impossible to apply pressure.

 

[Sillybilly]

Did Chauvin know that he was killing George Floyd? I think not nor has the prosecution presented evidence of that.

<rsbm>

When one is a mature, reasonably intelligent, experienced police officer, trained in the use of force, with a victim who has said they had Covid, has said 30+/- times they couldn't breathe, was placed in handcuffs and in the prone position, was believed to possibly be under the influence of drugs, when another officer expressed a concern about possible excited delirium, X number of people shouting their concern while his knee remained on GF's neck ... how could he have NOT known.

Obviously I am neither judge nor jury, but IMO the above is beyond a reasonable doubt that he had to have known his actions could result in grave harm or death, thus a total disregard for the human life of George Floyd.