MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #5 - Chauvin Trial Day 2

[kaen]

I’m not buying it either, and I can’t imagine the jury will. If he was too stupid to realize GF was dying right under his knee, he had several bystanders telling him exactly that. Maybe the defense will say he is hard of hearing and thought GF and all the witnesses were saying that he could breathe?!

I think it is important to remember that LE has had their actions caught on video (ie, Rodney King) and were acquitted. I am hoping that we have grown since then but I remain worried until the jury comes back with a verdict.

 

[kaen]

Unless it was drugs that killed him, right?

IIRC, the autopsy did not call his death an overdose or state that his death was related to the drugs in his system.



RIP, Mr. Floyd. I hope justice is coming.

 

[happyday]

That is going to be a hard sell. imo

No recovery position used. No-one rendering first aid. All officers fired from the police department. City already admitting culpability.

Also the ME already ruled it a homicide by asphyxiation, right? Can they even try to argue that it was a different cause of death?

 

[Tom_Servo]

I agree. Two years on the job and she knows it all. I may be wrong, but the impression I got is she's the type that thinks the MLPS FD would fall flat on their face without her.

I also got the impression she might sympathetic to the Minneapolis de-fund police movement.

 

[happyday]

I don’ t see Nelson as a jerk. He’s doing his job. He showed that she is/was unprofessional. IMO

I didn’t like how he asked her questions and then cut her off. He was obviously doing it purposely, but it was rude, and I thought he should have been reprimanded as well.

 

[happyday]

I think it is important to remember that LE has had their actions caught on video (ie, Rodney King) and were acquitted. I am hoping that we have grown since then but I remain worried until the jury comes back with a verdict.

Good point. I also will be worried until then.

 

[Rocky1]

Someone saying they can't breathe should be a clue.Even if they though he was faking it should have been checked.Bystanders saw he was in trouble but experienced cops were clueless?Sorry not buying it.

Fair enough, but he was saying he couldn't breath before he was taken out of the cruiser. Was Chauvin involved in the 2019 arrest? Was this a pattern of Floyd's to say he can't breath? I'm not saying it was, but I am saying the trial's not over yet and we just don't know.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is that because they didn't think he was dying? There's never been a case of someone dying from a neckhold in Mpls.
Or, did he intend to kill him? He's on trial for second degree "unintentional" homicide.

I don't see how they didn't know he was dying. Right when one of the officers says, "he's breathing," is the exact time Floyd actually stopped breathing. You can see his back go up and down and then he takes his last breath. After that there is no movement at all. Then the officers tell the crowd to "stay away from here," and one of them finally checks his pulse and says there's nothing. They could have tried to resuscitate him at that point, but they chose not to.

 

[kaen]

I’m thinking part of the defense’s strategy is to paint all the witnesses as angry and unruly, getting them worked up to show “See! They’re just angry!” I don’t really know what other defense they could possibly come up with. I don’t think it’s going to work. You’ve got a handful of kids and an off duty FF who were using their voices to convince the LE that GF was dying right in front of them. What a mob of angry thugs!

I agree. The defense seems to be playing with some stereotypes here. I am not sure if any person would watch the life being extinguished and hearing a man beg for his life and not be angry. If this were some felon who committed a murder in front of strangers, I am sure they would try and have the victim and get more and more vocal, if not angry. Yes, I do think it is stereotyping and playing the angry card.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Firefighter Genevive Hansen was told to simply answer questions and not argue with the court or counsel after she was reminded of her initial statement that George Floyd was a “small, slim man”

The interaction came after defence counsel Eric Nelson questioned Ms Hansen’s recollection of key details she previously described in the immediate aftermath of Mr Floyd’s death.

After showing Ms Hansen a transcript of her interview with investigators, Mr Nelson asked if she had described Mr Floyd as a “small, slim man”.

“Yeah it appeared with three grown men on top of somebody it appeared he was small and frail,” she said, before adding without being questioned that, “I know that not to be true obviously”.

When Mr Nelson and Judge Cahill highlighted a second question wasn’t asked, Ms Hansen said: “I was finishing my answer.”

Chauvin trial witness says she called 911 when officers didn’t check George Floyd’s pulse - live

This was her testimony:

Nelson and Hansen are going back and forth over the response time of medics. Hansen raises concerns about the length of time it took medical help to arrive "that is precisely the kind of call that fire would respond to and Station 17 is just a couple blocks away."

Hansen says, "we get a call and we go".

Nelson asks "And, again, that five or six minute delay is just unheard of in your experience?"

Hansen says yes.

Nelson starts asking Hansen whether she has experience administering Narcan, which is used to revive someone who has overdosed.

Hansen says when people are revived, they can become combative but says it doesn't happen often.

Nelson starts asking Hansen whether she has experience administering Narcan, which is used to revive someone who has overdosed.

Hansen says when people are revived, they can become combative but says it doesn't happen often.

Nelson asks whether she would describe other bystanders' demeanors as upset or angry.

Hansen replies "I don't know if you've seen anybody be killed .. it's upsetting". This answer results in objection from Nelson.

Nelson asks, "Did you describe Mr. Floyd as a small slim man?"

Hansen replies, "With three grown men on top of somebody it appeared he was small and frail."


https://twitter.com/callangraynews/status/1377009678257942530?s=21

 

[Rocky1]

It is not blame shifting, though, when a witness is pointing her finger at the officers responsible for cutting off George's airways. As well as minimising his lungs capacity for holding oxygen by placing their weight on him.

I think she was effective. A distraught professional who could not help on that horrible day. One she will relive in her mind forever.

It seems evident, to me, that her emotions about it are still hovering right beneath the surface. She hasn't been able to put it in a box and file it away. And may never be able to do that.

I find it difficult to critique the helpless bystanders for their thoughts and emotions, as they relive those horrible moments.

I agree. I would have been livid if I was there and witnessed that.

 

[margarita25]

I think it is important to remember that LE has had their actions caught on video (ie, Rodney King) and were acquitted. I am hoping that we have grown since then but I remain worried until the jury comes back with a verdict.

(I was thinking about this, Rodney King...I’ll never forget seeing that beating of Reginald Denny...)

 

[turaj]

I’m thinking part of the defense’s strategy is to paint all the witnesses as angry and unruly, getting them worked up to show “See! They’re just angry!” I don’t really know what other defense they could possibly come up with. I don’t think it’s going to work. You’ve got a handful of kids and an off duty FF who were using their voices to convince the LE that GF was dying right in front of them. What a mob of angry thugs!

the theme I am getting for the past two days is this was a very angry "mob" at that corner and Chauvin et al feared that it could get out of control if they did anything other than stay exactly where they were. As I look and listen to the players here...yes they were loud but most were women, some very young just sort of yelling at them...keeping their distance and I see no reason to fear them. It this had been in another area of the city maybe but this "mob" theme will not fly for the defense...

 

[Rocky1]

I didn’t like how he asked her questions and then cut her off. He was obviously doing it purposely, but it was rude, and I thought he should have been reprimanded as well.

Most questions asked on cross examination are leading questions in which a "yes or no" answer only is acceptable. I know it may seem rude, but I thought he let her answer more in length only to trip her up. He didn't nothing wrong.

 

[MsBetsy]

Also the ME already ruled it a homicide by asphyxiation, right? Can they even try to argue that it was a different cause of death?

They can try to say he died from an overdose, but they can't argue with the ME ruling his death a homicide. Even if the officers thought he lost consciousness due to drugs, they still had a responsibility to try to save his life.

 

[Leilei]

They did. Fire/Emt's had been called before she showed up.

But they still didn't render aid while the victim was on the ground, handcuffed, and in obvious distress. Why wait for fire/emt? They're trained in how to help a suspect who is in need of medical assistance until others show up. They never helped him.

 

[margarita25]

Also the ME already ruled it a homicide by asphyxiation, right? Can they even try to argue that it was a different cause of death?

I’m so behind, but I think I heard yesterday the defense may be going with cardiac arrhythmia?? If not disregard. (Gah I need to watch the defense’s opening statement from yesterday, I am behind on that too).

Prosecutor Blackwell explained in his opening statement that someone with cardiac arrhythmia dies immediately, not the way GF did. He also talks about certain types of breathing, and spasms, I don’t want to paraphrase, but based on the opening statement it seems the prosecution already has their rebuttals to alternate CODs covered and ready to go.

Another thing, if it was an opioid overdose, he wouldn’t have been all, um energetic, (sorry can’t think of the word), yelling and calling out. It seems to me that the prosecution is ready to refute with evidence from a medical standpoint alternate CODs related to cardiac and drug conditions.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They can try to say he died from an overdose, but they can't argue with the ME ruling his death a homicide. Even if the officers thought he lost consciousness due to drugs, they still had a responsibility to save his life.

I assume that the defense can call an expert witness that will say certain parts of the ME report are wrong. JMO

 

[Rocky1]

the theme I am getting for the past two days is this was a very angry "mob" at that corner and Chauvin et al feared that it could get out of control if they did anything other than stay exactly where they were. As I look and listen to the players here...yes they were loud but most were women, some very young just sort of yelling at them...keeping their distance and I see no reason to fear them. It this had been in another area of the city maybe but this "mob" theme will not fly for the defense...

You may be right, but where as they did a "grab and go" may prove to the jury that even the Ambulance crew saw the crowd at a threat, and the EMT witness may have confirmed that.
She stated that's the reason they move and stop at another location.

 

[Algo214]

“Yeah it appeared with three grown men on top of somebody it appeared he was small and frail,” she said, before adding without being questioned that, “I know that not to be true obviously”.

When Mr Nelson and Judge Cahill highlighted a second question wasn’t asked, Ms Hansen said: “I was finishing my answer.”

Sure, she wasn't comporting the best but I don't see how that would get her admonished?