• #421
Show us a video where any storming was involved if you want to be taken seriously
Video posted on this thread at post #131. Link no longer works if you try to bring it over, guessing that the defendant was advised to take down his videos from inside the church.
 
  • #422
Video posted on this thread at post #131. Link no longer works if you try to bring it over, guessing that the defendant was advised to take down his videos from inside the church.
I’m aware the video had been taken down and I will admit, I only watched it once so I don’t recall the entire video perfectly but if it was taken by William Kelly, the protester, as his experience, how does that prove that Don Lemon “stormed the church”. Do you see Don Lemon in his video? This is an honest question.

Edit: I guess I keep seeing the language “stormed the church” but I don’t know if such footage exists of Don Lemon storming the church. We can assume he walked into the church, obviously. But there’s a big distinction between coming in to cover a news story and storming in.
 
  • #423
I’m aware the video had been taken down and I will admit, I only watched it once so I don’t recall the entire video perfectly but if it was taken by William Kelly, the protester, as his experience, how does that prove that Don Lemon “stormed the church”. Do you see Don Lemon in his video? This is an honest question.

Edit: I guess I keep seeing the language “stormed the church” but I don’t know if such footage exists of Don Lemon storming the church. We can assume he walked into the church, obviously. But there’s a big distinction between coming in to cover a news story and storming in.
Apparently the plan (according to the indictment) was for the first wave of protestors come in calmly and unnoticed and sit down with the rest of the congregation. The 2nd part of the plan was for the 2nd wave to come and begin chanting, screaming, telling children their parents were going to hell, worshipping Satan, and loudly interrupting the service.

That's quite an entrance, I'd say. I don't think it serves any real purpose to fuss over the definition of "storming in" but realistically, if someone came into my house screaming and chanting and doing what they did, I'd absolutely call it that. I think most folks would.

jmo
 
  • #424
This is the entire video and Don goes in the church around 38 mins. No storm.
 
  • #425
This is the entire video and Don goes in the church around 38 mins. No storm.
Thank you. It might come in handy to have this to reference as we go along, if the case doesn't get tossed out but heads to trial.

jmo
 
  • #426
For me, imo, the disconnect is that my cultural references for "storming" something are the Bastille and the beaches of Normandy. While I don't approve of the tactic of entering the church -- houses of worship should be left alone imo -- I don't personally equate what I saw in the video with either of those events. Opinions may vary, of course.
 
  • #427
Apparently the plan (according to the indictment) was for the first wave of protestors come in calmly and unnoticed and sit down with the rest of the congregation. The 2nd part of the plan was for the 2nd wave to come and begin chanting, screaming, telling children their parents were going to hell, worshipping Satan, and loudly interrupting the service.

That's quite an entrance, I'd say. I don't think it serves any real purpose to fuss over the definition of "storming in" but realistically, if someone came into my house screaming and chanting and doing what they did, I'd absolutely call it that. I think most folks would.

jmo
Again; your post is about the protestors, not Don Lemon. Several protestors have been arrested for their involvement, that’s not up for debate. I’m talking about Don Lemon. I keep seeing language that he “stormed the church” but very little to back up that claim.
 
  • #428
I’m aware the video had been taken down and I will admit, I only watched it once so I don’t recall the entire video perfectly but if it was taken by William Kelly, the protester, as his experience, how does that prove that Don Lemon “stormed the church”. Do you see Don Lemon in his video? This is an honest question.

Edit: I guess I keep seeing the language “stormed the church” but I don’t know if such footage exists of Don Lemon storming the church. We can assume he walked into the church, obviously. But there’s a big distinction between coming in to cover a news story and storming in.
I’m aware the video had been taken down and I will admit, I only watched it once so I don’t recall the entire video perfectly but if it was taken by William Kelly, the protester, as his experience, how does that prove that Don Lemon “stormed the church”. Do you see Don Lemon in his video? This is an honest question.

Edit: I guess I keep seeing the language “stormed the church” but I don’t know if such footage exists of Don Lemon storming the church. We can assume he walked into the church, obviously. But there’s a big distinction between coming in to cover a news story and storming in.
The word, storm, is being used as a dog whistle to incite, but those who have watched, around the country, see no storming. Pretty sure that word does not come to mind at all. It an intentional misuse but doesn't go anywhere. IMO
 
  • #429
Video posted on this thread at post #131. Link no longer works if you try to bring it over, guessing that the defendant was advised to take down his videos from inside the church.
So we can’t see it?
No storm eh?
 
  • #430
Apparently the plan (according to the indictment) was for the first wave of protestors come in calmly and unnoticed and sit down with the rest of the congregation. The 2nd part of the plan was for the 2nd wave to come and begin chanting, screaming, telling children their parents were going to hell, worshipping Satan, and loudly interrupting the service.

That's quite an entrance, I'd say. I don't think it serves any real purpose to fuss over the definition of "storming in" but realistically, if someone came into my house screaming and chanting and doing what they did, I'd absolutely call it that. I think most folks would.

jmo
The word “stormed” fits and is appropriate in reference to what happened in the Church. imo
 
  • #431
This is the entire video and Don goes in the church around 38 mins. No storm.
Ok yeah. Now watching that, Don did not storm. He literally just walked in completely alone, he wasn’t even with any protestors at the time. IMO.
 
  • #432
Ok yeah. Now watching that, Don did not storm. He literally just walked in completely alone, he wasn’t even with any protestors at the time. IMO.
Ok and now watching even longer, Don walked into the church while the sermon was still happening, the protesters hadn’t even begun to protest or chant at that point. So he was already in the church when the protests started, therefore, he didn’t storm any church. He walked into the church alone.
 
  • #434
This might have been posted already and I missed it, but posting again. I was curious what the penalty would be for violating the Federal law against disrupting a worship service:


Fines for violent offenders for their first offense can be as high as $100,000, with prison sentences of one year. Repeat violent offenders can receive up to three years in prison and fines of up to $250,000. ...

In the case of first-time convictions of protesters who engage in nonviolent physical obstruction, such as sit-ins or blockades, the law allows judges to impose fines of up to $10,000 and six-month prison terms. Second convictions for these kinds of offenses are punishable by up to 18 months in jail and fines of up to $25,000. The individuals harmed by the protest activities may also sue the protesters for civil damages




The Act covers churches as well, as has been discussed on the thread so not repeating that, but more info is at the link.

 
  • #435
Show us a video where any storming was involved if you want to be taken seriously
Is there another word that better describes the experience of witnesses ... where trauma was the purpose of the coordinated take-over style attack?

1769898819416.webp


1769899024658.webp


 
  • #436
Is there another word that better describes the experience of witnesses ... where trauma was the purpose of the coordinated take-over style attack?

View attachment 640927

View attachment 640929

But the video shows us Don Lemon wasn’t even with any protestors when he entered the church. How the protestors got into the church isn’t part of this debate - it’s if Mr Lemon acted as a protestor or a journalist. I just watched him calmly and slowly enter the church completely alone, while the sermon was still taking place. He was in the church when the protests began, and filmed it and interviewed both the parishioners and the protestors.
 
  • #437
  • #438
But the video shows us Don Lemon wasn’t even with any protestors when he entered the church. How the protestors got into the church isn’t part of this debate - it’s if Mr Lemon acted as a protestor or a journalist. I just watched him calmly and slowly enter the church completely alone, while the sermon was still taking place. He was in the church when the protests began, and filmed it and interviewed both the parishioners and the protestors.
He was there because he was part of the group of protestors.
That's the only way he'd know where to be and what time to be there.

So I'd say he acted like a protestor by being a part of and having knowledge of the details of it (he admits it all on camera), then claiming to be there as a journalist.

I also think it was really sleazy thing to do, to be part of a group of people that disrupt a religious worship service so that you can live stream "breaking news" that you're a participant in.

jmo
 
  • #439
Is this why there were arrests: it is prohibited to interfere with any person who is seeking to exercise first amendment rights of religious freedom at a place of religious worship?

"Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act of 1994

Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit: (2) intentionally injuring, intimidating, or interfering with, or attempting to injure, intimidate, or interfere, any person by force, threat of force, or physical obstruction exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship"

It's exactly why the arrests were made.
 
  • #440
For me, imo, the disconnect is that my cultural references for "storming" something are the Bastille and the beaches of Normandy. While I don't approve of the tactic of entering the church -- houses of worship should be left alone imo -- I don't personally equate what I saw in the video with either of those events. Opinions may vary, of course.
I agree it probably is cultural.

I equate storming in as a noisy, unexpected entrance. I'm guessing there were 20+ people in that group.

JMO
 

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