• #1,781

Interesting twist. Smart move.

Given Lemon's resources, I would have went for a First Amendment scholar type Ivy leaguer. But.... I suspect Lemon will hire top quality, what ever form it takes.

Despite quality defense, a weak point might be the videographer- who is facing the same criminal penalty and does not appear to be able to fund the same level of moves in regards to attorney retention. Even in the best of circumstances, that can lead to hurt feelings between the two.

In the end, my guess is that this case could come down to blurry lines as to when somebody stops being a journalist and becomes a participant. I wont pretend to know where those lines are.

But.... a slightly different spin between Lemon and the videographer might make a big difference in regards to those lines were crossed. In short, I wonder if the videographer's recollections of everything match Lemons?
 
Last edited:
  • #1,782
Lemon never claimed any privilege.

MOO 🐄
Yes he is, if he claims he is not guilty because he is a journalist. MOO
 
  • #1,783
Given Lemon's resources, I would have went for a First Amendment scholar type Ivy leaguer. But.... I suspect Lemon will hire top quality, what ever form it takes.

Despite quality defense, a weak point might be the videographer- who is facing the same criminal penalty and does not appear to be able to fund the same level of moves in regards to attorney retention. Even in the best of circumstances, that can lead to hurt feelings between the two.

In the end, my guess is that this case could come down to blurry lines as to when somebody stops being a journalist and becomes a participant. I wont pretend to know where those lines are.

But.... a slightly different spin between Lemon and the videographer might make a big difference in regards to those lines were crossed. In short, I wonder if the videographer's recollections of everything match Lemons?
We will see- you are jumping from the pretrial issues to trial.

My opinion is that the charges are not going to come close to sticking in criminal court for the journalists and videographers, and they are difficult for the protesters.

I think local prosecution on local laws like trespassing may have had some traction against the protesters (and maybe, while less so, with the journalists) but they were not charged.

When it comes to the FACE act, there really are no facts supporting it against the journalists. The facts against the protesters may be too weak for the burden of proof. And, they may benefit from the fact that the charges against the journalists are absurd and were brought fraudulently. We have to wait for court, if it gets that far.

At this point, I don't think the defendants are at risk of being at odds with one another.

They are united in supporting the people in Minnesota, and seeking justice for victims of murder, assault, and kidnapping by ICE.

MOO
 
  • #1,784
Wait, you are getting confused.

Lemon was never charged with failing to leave when asked to leave, was he?

Lemon was not charged with running a stop sign, was he?

Lemon was charged with violating the FACE act, a piece of legislation that the current federal government is trying to gut (an additional data point to support that this prosecution is in bad faith.) Two judges asked the prosecutors for more information because what was presented did not show probable cause that the FACE act was violated by Lemon.

Instead of providing more information, the prosecutors went to the Grand Jury as soon as it could, and said- well- we don't know what. But, according to Lemons lawyers, if they said the same things they said in court, and gave proper jury instructions, no indictment would have been handed down. Thus, they infer that the behaviors described were untrue, or laws were misstated, or instructions were given incorrectly. Thus, the convincing request for the GJ transcripts.

MOO
That is part of the FACE Act violation. Here is a discussion from abortion rights group on it. Wayback Machine


MOO
 
  • #1,785
I actually expect Lemon to change his plea to nolo contendere or something similar.
 
  • #1,786
This is the first I’m hearing of this.
 
  • #1,787
Wait, you are getting confused.

Lemon was never charged with failing to leave when asked to leave, was he?

Lemon was not charged with running a stop sign, was he?

Lemon was charged with violating the FACE act, a piece of legislation that the current federal government is trying to gut (an additional data point to support that this prosecution is in bad faith.) Two judges asked the prosecutors for more information because what was presented did not show probable cause that the FACE act was violated by Lemon.

Instead of providing more information, the prosecutors went to the Grand Jury as soon as it could, and said- well- we don't know what. But, according to Lemons lawyers, if they said the same things they said in court, and gave proper jury instructions, no indictment would have been handed down. Thus, they infer that the behaviors described were untrue, or laws were misstated, or instructions were given incorrectly. Thus, the convincing request for the GJ transcripts.

MOO
Trespassing charges are state/local charges and it does not appear that local authorities want to bring those charges. Not surprising.

Isn't Lemon also charge outside of the FACE act?

And arent all federal cases required to be brought by GJ indictment?
 
  • #1,788
  • #1,789
  • #1,790
That's not what he said.

MOO 🐄
Actually that seems to be EXACTLY what he is claiming.
Would he be willing to be a witness against the others?
 
  • #1,791
Yes he is, if he claims he is not guilty because he is a journalist. MOO
No, he is making the factual argument that he was there as a journalist. He is not claiming a privilege. He is stating what he was doing, journalism, and that it is not a crime.

It is a factual argument, not a privilege argument.

MOO
 
  • #1,792
Trespassing charges are state/local charges and it does not appear that local authorities want to bring those charges. Not surprising.

Isn't Lemon also charge outside of the FACE act?

And arent all federal cases required to be brought by GJ indictment?
1) local authorities never said they don't "want" to bring charges. The Feds rushed in so fast, they didn't even have their manufactured facts straight, or answers for judges.

2) I don't know. Maybe FACE is just the most serious.

3) Im not the attorney, but every jurisdiction in the US has some mechanism for establishing probable cause and for protecting people from a weaponized criminal justice system. For the Feds, that is usually by GJ per my lay experience and belief.

Nothing is wrong with bringing the case to the GJ. What is wrong is not giving the GJ factual information about behaviors, not giving them accurate information about the law, and not properly instructing them as to their duty to protect the public from frivolous charges. Lemon's attorneys are accusing the Feds of misusing the GJ.

MOO
 
  • #1,793
No, he is making the factual argument that he was there as a journalist. He is not claiming a privilege. He is stating what he was doing, journalism, and that it is not a crime.

It is a factual argument, not a privilege argument.

MOO
It cannot be used as a defense, which is what Lemon is trying to do. IMO
 
  • #1,794
  • #1,795
Yes he is, if he claims he is not guilty because he is a journalist. MOO

Slippery slope now. Who are "journalists"? Are they credentialed, working for a legitimate news agency? Or can anyone claim to be an "independent" journalist? As we have so many social media sites, with self appointed journalists.
 
  • #1,796
It cannot be used as a defense, which is what Lemon is trying to do. IMO

Let's break this down. Lemon is stating a fact, he was covering a protest as a journalist.

The facts can't be used as a defense in your opinion?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

MOO
 
  • #1,797
1) local authorities never said they don't "want" to bring charges. The Feds rushed in so fast, they didn't even have their manufactured facts straight, or answers for judges.

2) I don't know. Maybe FACE is just the most serious.

3) Im not the attorney, but every jurisdiction in the US has some mechanism for establishing probable cause and for protecting people from a weaponized criminal justice system. For the Feds, that is usually by GJ per my lay experience and belief.

Nothing is wrong with bringing the case to the GJ. What is wrong is not giving the GJ factual information about behaviors, not giving them accurate information about the law, and not properly instructing them as to their duty to protect the public from frivolous charges. Lemon's attorneys are accusing the Feds of misusing the GJ.

MOO
St. Paul police were the first to arrive on the scene. They are the primary agency on that part. They witnessed the situation. No charges recommended or filed by the county attorney. Why? The evidence is pretty straight forward.

The FACE act is actually not the most serious charge.

And yes, a grand jury is necessary for a federal indictment.
 
  • #1,798
Slippery slope now. Who are "journalists"? Are they credentialed, working for a legitimate news agency? Or can anyone claim to be an "independent" journalist? As we have so many social media sites, with self appointed journalists.
I recommend turning to professional journalism associations to answer that question.

Putting a word like "journalists" or "independent" in quotes does not make you an expert on this subject.


 
  • #1,799
Let's break this down. Lemon is stating a fact, he was covering a protest as a journalist.

The facts can't be used as a defense in your opinion?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

MOO
He is using that "fact" to claim that he cannot be guilty of a crime.

MOO
 
  • #1,800
Given Lemon's resources, I would have went for a First Amendment scholar type Ivy leaguer. But.... I suspect Lemon will hire top quality, what ever form it takes.

Despite quality defense, a weak point might be the videographer- who is facing the same criminal penalty and does not appear to be able to fund the same level of moves in regards to attorney retention. Even in the best of circumstances, that can lead to hurt feelings between the two.

In the end, my guess is that this case could come down to blurry lines as to when somebody stops being a journalist and becomes a participant. I wont pretend to know where those lines are.

But.... a slightly different spin between Lemon and the videographer might make a big difference in regards to those lines were crossed. In short, I wonder if the videographer's recollections of everything match Lemons?

This article has a bit of commentary by Jerome Richardson (the producer of the video).


"Don was reporting on the situation on the ground during the occupation by DHS and ICE and Border Patrol agents. At that time, I was proud to support his work in exposing the everyday injustices that resulted from the agenda. As a consequence of this support, I'm now being targeted by Trump and the federal administration,"

"This is the price of being unapologetic about humanity and love of Christ," he continued, noting he supported the protesters, highlighting "the hypocrisy of how Pastor David Easterwood could simultaneously be a pastor at the church and the local leader of ICE operations."

"What people are experiencing goes against human and civil rights as well as the teachings of Jesus, who indeed flipped over tables," Richardson said in the video.

Richardson asked for prayers for his safety and peace of mind, for demonstrations against ICE and DHS to continue and for donations to help with legal fees.

 

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
313
Guests online
2,055
Total visitors
2,368

Forum statistics

Threads
642,820
Messages
18,790,313
Members
245,019
Latest member
M.315
Back
Top