• #1,801
It cannot be used as a defense, which is what Lemon is trying to do. IMO
A fact can be used as a defense in court.

What goes badly in court is lies.

IANAL, so MOO
 
  • #1,802
He is using that "fact" to claim that he cannot be guilty of a crime.

MOO
It's a factual argument.

He is accused of things with no evidence. He wasn't doing those things.

He was covering a protest as a journalist.

This was why the first two attempts to get an indictment failed: judges said, wait, I don't see Lemon doing the things you are charging on video. I see him being a journalist. Bring me more evidence. The Feds did not bring more evidence, and only managed to get an indictment in the GJ. It appears that the GJ was misinformed and given the wrong instructions.

The judges said, "It appears Lemon was covering the protest as a journalist, which is not a crime." (In substance.) Don Lemon is saying, "Indeed I was covering the protest as a journalist." (In substance.)


MOO
 
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  • #1,803
Why a discussion from way back?

Please stay on topic.

MOO
Because the law is the same and it is from well before the current situation.
 
  • #1,804
A fact can be used as a defense in court.

What goes badly in court is lies.

IANAL, so MOO
No, it cannot. There are just too many precedents. MOO
 
  • #1,805
Because the law is the same and it is from well before the current situation.

I don't know about anyone else, but documents posted without quoting the relevant section are going unread.

It truly would help for relevant quotes from the documents - to support the point being made - to be posted.

imo
 
  • #1,806
This article has a bit of commentary by Jerome Richardson (the producer of the video).


"Don was reporting on the situation on the ground during the occupation by DHS and ICE and Border Patrol agents. At that time, I was proud to support his work in exposing the everyday injustices that resulted from the agenda. As a consequence of this support, I'm now being targeted by Trump and the federal administration,"

"This is the price of being unapologetic about humanity and love of Christ," he continued, noting he supported the protesters, highlighting "the hypocrisy of how Pastor David Easterwood could simultaneously be a pastor at the church and the local leader of ICE operations."

"What people are experiencing goes against human and civil rights as well as the teachings of Jesus, who indeed flipped over tables," Richardson said in the video.

Richardson asked for prayers for his safety and peace of mind, for demonstrations against ICE and DHS to continue and for donations to help with legal fees.

So it appears that the producer is fully supporting the idea that Don Lemon was there as an advocate. Good grief. Unbelievable.
 
  • #1,807
We will see- you are jumping from the pretrial issues to trial.

My opinion is that the charges are not going to come close to sticking in criminal court for the journalists and videographers, and they are difficult for the protesters.
I agree on the lead statement. But.... we have very different views regarding the rest of your post.

The FACE Act clearly states that it is illegal intimidate people at a place of worship from practicing first amendment rights- period.

Neither the ACLU nor the SPLC, nor any other established civil liberties group has questioned the applicability of the charges to the protesters. That is pretty telling and could well indicate that they are in big trouble.

Then factor in the idea that people have protest rights, but need to stay out of churches, mosques, synagogues and temples might resonate pretty deep with a certain number of jurors.

In regards to the charges against Lemon, I think he is going to get squeezed, but I my confidence is lower. Two judges refused to issue warrants. Yet, neither judge rejected the applicability of the charges out right.

In the end, the fact that the protest and target were plastered all over Minneapolis, but none of the big boy networks decided to respond to: "Hey CNN, FOX and CBS wanna get the inside scoop on our protest at the Church? We are rolling out soon!!" could be telling. Little voices might have told them it was legally a bad idea.

As to the loyalty of the protesters to their cause and to each other. Humans and humans and groups of humans usually fragment. Not all of them might have signed up for the risk of criminal charges.
 
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  • #1,808
No, it cannot. There are just too many precedents. MOO
Excuse me. Did you just say that there are too many precedents against using facts in court? Please explain.

MOO
 
  • #1,809
So it appears that the producer is fully supporting the idea that Don Lemon was there as an advocate. Good grief. Unbelievable.

That may be your take, but it is not mine. Jerome clearly states that Don was reporting on the situation.


A St. Paul native, Richardson said he was there helping Lemon with logistics and getting the former CNN host connected with local activists as he prepared to cover the demonstration live on YouTube.

Don was reporting on the situation on the ground during the occupation by DHS and ICE and Border Patrol agents.


(from my previously linked article)
 
  • #1,810
Excuse me. Did you just say that there are too many precedents against using facts in court? Please explain.

MOO
No, I said that there were too many precedents regarding a journalist privilege claims.

IMO
 
  • #1,811
  • #1,812
Please post a link to this statement
Seems to be a conditional: "If.....". If so, a link might be hard to produce.

Likewise, it seems to be a key part of his defese ala: "I was functioning as a journalist, I was not participating in the protest". Such a concept might be a form of journalistic privilage (sp)

This article has a bit of commentary by Jerome Richardson (the producer of the video).


"Don was reporting on the situation on the ground during the occupation by DHS and ICE and Border Patrol agents. At that time, I was proud to support his work in exposing the everyday injustices that resulted from the agenda. As a consequence of this support, I'm now being targeted by Trump and the federal administration,"

"This is the price of being unapologetic about humanity and love of Christ," he continued, noting he supported the protesters, highlighting "the hypocrisy of how Pastor David Easterwood could simultaneously be a pastor at the church and the local leader of ICE operations."

"What people are experiencing goes against human and civil rights as well as the teachings of Jesus, who indeed flipped over tables," Richardson said in the video.

Richardson asked for prayers for his safety and peace of mind, for demonstrations against ICE and DHS to continue and for donations to help with legal fees.

I really don't know how this is applicable. The fact that the protestors are ready to justify their actions does not latter. What matters is whether or not they violated the FACE act. Likewise, the fact that the protesters deem the Pastor to be "uncool" is also a non starter.
 
  • #1,813
He is using that "fact" to claim that he cannot be guilty of a crime.

MOO
No. Lemon says he was only doing what a journalist does, that means documenting a protest, which is not a crime. He also says he was not committing any crimes in that church. What he is not saying is that he can commit crimes because he is a journalist (If I am.wrong and he claimed that anywhere I am pretty sure you can provide a quote and a link).

MOO 🐄
 
  • #1,814
  • #1,815
  • #1,816
  • #1,817
  • #1,818
I actually expect Lemon to change his plea to nolo contendere or something similar.

I expect him to walk away a free man and a poster child for fighting lawfare and winning.

And I expect the current to close on the assistant AG's 15 minutes.

MOO.
 
  • #1,819
Tricia, this is well established.


<modsnip>

Nowhere in that text Lemon says he is not guilty, because he is a journalist. He says he was acting as a journalist, documenting the protest. That's a huge difference.
 
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  • #1,820
Kindly please, stop linking to unrelated cases.
Those are related to the case and Tricia requested the links.
 

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