• #2,081
Are they saying they sent evidence to the grand jury without first reviewing it?

A case must be ruled "complex" before a judge will allow the prosecution to waive a defendant's right to a speedy trial. This case doesn't meet that test. It involves charges against 2 journalists covering an event that lasted a couple of hours, at most.

Better examples of a complex case would be Brian Kohberger murdering 4 college students in their apartment or the Wagner family murdering 8 members of the Rhoden and Gilley families as they slept in 4 different homes.

The defendants in this case have already allowed a 21 day extension for the government to make it's case. Discovery should already be taking place on most of the evidence, as most of it has already been seen by the public. JMO.

Like testimony, absolutely. It does not happen until it happens.

Kohberger was state court, IIRC which operates under different rules.

MMO.
 
  • #2,082
However, that is very large step to convincing a petite jury.

The old line about a prosecutor getting a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwich" came from a judge name Sol Wachtler, who was later convicted and served time in federal prison. It is a good proving ground for the strength of a case.

MOO
I am interested to see how strong the DOJ’s case is too, especially after learning that both Magistrate Judge Micko refused to issue the five remaining arrests warrants, including DL’s, for the DOJ because in his opinion there wasn’t enough evidence to criminally charge him and the four other defendants for violating the FACE Act and that Judge Schultz identified in his letter during the appeal process that two of the eight defendants weren’t even protesters but were journalists with no evidence of carrying out criminal behavior at the church. It would be interesting to know if the DOJ has made their case stronger since late December though I disagree personally that DL and Forte violated the FACE Act.

To be fair though on the other hand, I recall too one judge in MN’s 8th Circuit Court had stated publicly that the DOJ had shown that there was enough probable cause to issue all five arrest warrants so there is that.

As for the grand jury, to be honest for me personally it is hard to tell how strong the case is based on it after the reading the previous two statements from the MN judges. IIRC, 99% of federal grand jury cases come back with an indictment. Factors such as indictments, unlike guilt or innocence, are based on the grand jury’s belief that there is probable cause to reasonably believe a crime was committed by the defendant, not that the defendant committed it beyond a reasonable doubt and the jury only needs a majority vote, not an unanimous one to pass an indictment. Additionally, hearsay can be presented in court and it is exclusively led and organized by the government who is the only that can presents its case with its witnesses and evidences.

But those are just my own concerns

IMO/MOO





 
  • #2,083
The former CNN anchor Don Lemon was arrested late Thursday night on charges that he violated federal law during a protest at a church in St. Paul, Minnesota, his lawyer said, in a case rejected last week by a magistrate judge. Mr. Lemon has said he was simply reporting as a journalist when he entered the Cities Church on January 18 to observe a demonstration against the immigration crackdown in the area.
 
  • #2,084
This case is going to get thrown out so fast, just watch.
 
  • #2,085
I snipped down to this bit:

As the Government should know, the Department of Justice’s own internal policies reinforce that prosecutors are expected to thoroughly assess evidence and discovery obligations before charges are brought, as part of the charging decision, not afterward.


The paragraph above references a huge part of what appears to have gone wrong with the GJ process in this case. The sentence is snarky. The defense is credibly accusing the prosecution of not properly considering the exculpating facts when presenting to the grand jury. The prosecution is also accused of failing to instruct the grand jury properly.

The sentence says "should know" but what they mean is they do know but ignored proper process.


The prosecution has no intention of winning. They just wanted their perp walks, fake crying photos, and lying talking heads on TV. Once the case is resolved, there will be no more of that. So that is why they are slow walking.



MOO
 
  • #2,086
The DOJ's own internal policy requires that it investigate first, evaluate the evidence, before bringing charges. It goes without saying they reviewed it prior to presenting it to a grand jury and don't need additional time to review it again.


There are many more complex cases that haven't required months and months of additional delays. They have a high bar to jump in proving to the court they need more delays, including 3 extra months, to re-review their evidence on a case that isn't complex. JMO


It should go without saying that the prosecution reviewed the case before bringing it to the grand jury. Or before allowing the grand jury to finish the case, if it were an evidence gathering, investigatory grand jury.

But it doesn't go without saying in this case, unfortunately. That is why there is a motion to release the grand jury transcripts.


MOO
 
  • #2,087
As for the grand jury, to be honest for me personally it is hard to tell how strong the case is based on it after the reading the previous two statements from the MN judges. IIRC, 99% of federal grand jury cases come back with an indictment. Factors such as indictments, unlike guilt or innocence, are based on the grand jury’s belief that there is probable cause to reasonably believe a crime was committed by the defendant, not that the defendant committed it beyond a reasonable doubt and the jury only needs a majority vote, not an unanimous one to pass an indictment. Additionally, hearsay can be presented in court and it is exclusively led and organized by the government who is the only that can presents its case with its witnesses and evidences.
Snipped for brevity.

The author of this piece is a supporter of the concept of a grand jury: The Grand Jury Emerges as a Check on Trump's DOJ

I thinks are quite valid about the need for a solid case to get an indictment.
 
  • #2,088
  • #2,089
  • #2,090
Weren't their people saying it would be dismissed already?

I'm not sure if anyone said it would be dismissed on arraignment. That's exceedingly rare, from what I've read. Other recently dismissed high-profile cases involving the DOJ were dismissed relatively quickly, but after arraignment.

MOO.
 
  • #2,091
Long article by Lawfare. Highlighting all of the discriminatory public statements given by members of the govt about Don Lemon's reporting at Cities Church.

It also states that the govt tried to manufacture an emergency over Don Lemon's arrest. An emergency that the judge did not agree with.


Judge Schiltz: The government’s arguments about the urgency of its request makes no sense. As the government says, “dozens” of protestors invaded Cities Church on Sunday. The leaders of that group have been arrested, and everyone knows that they have been arrested.
The government says that there are plans to disrupt Cities Church again on Sunday.
Of course, the best way to protect Cities Church is to protect Cities Church; we have thousands of law-enforcement officers in town, and presumably a few of them could be stationed outside of Cities Church on Sunday.
The government does not explain why the arrests of five more people—one of whom is a journalist and the other his producer—would make Cities Church any safer, especially because that would still leave “dozens” of those who invaded the church on Sunday free to do it again.

The bizarre saga that unfolded in the weeks leading up to Don Lemon’s indictment illustrates just how far the Justice Department has fallen.
 

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