MN - Justine Damond, 40, fatally shot by Minneapolis LE, 15 July 2017 #1

[RandomName479]

Noor had a lawyer before he even left the scene that night....now I hear all these people calling him jumpy....nervous etc. and have to ask what in the world is going on at the MPD.

do you have a link for that? I haven't read that he had a lawyer at the scene.....MOO

or a link for "they said some do have cameras".......I'm having a hard time tracking down all of these statements as being legit and reported by MSM.....

 

[turaj]

do you have a link for that? I haven't read that he had a lawyer at the scene.....MOO

sorry that was not to be taken literally....what I meant is almost immediately as he should have..of course it was not at the scene. Frankly I am not sure what happened immediately after her death...few details.

 

[popsicle]

K_Z is a verified anesthetist, meaning mods have verified who she is and the nature of her profession and certification. She's contributed a lot of good medical information about trauma to many cases here over the years. Give her a little time and she'll probably post some scholarly articles.

TY Honestly, I don't get why this is even being questioned since she thoroughly explained the reasoning for her response. jmo

 

[kittycat3]

Even worse, her family has to deal with her killer and others blaming her for her own death. I have a feeling it will be much more difficult for LE to sweep this under the rug. The public is getting fed up with all these killings of innocent people.

Just my opinion people! The US LOVES its prison systems, I know.....
My opinion is that Noor made an awful and impulsive mistake that ended a woman's life and should never again be a cop or allowed to own a gun. He needs to be punished somehow. BUT I don't think he's evil or that our society will be safer with him locked up for life. As long as he doesn't own a gun / isn't a cop, I don't see him continuing to harm people or acting violently. But this is just my opinion and I'll keep my future posts focused on the case.

 

[kittycat3]

just imagine being Officer Harrity at this point...his "partner" has shut down and will not talk and you are left to try to answer questions. I hope he continues to be helpful but I imagine he faces some charge too in terms of not having the cam on etc.

I'd be FURIOUS if I were Harrity. He must have almost been shot himself, and now his life is a mess and a woman is dead, and Noor is silent.....FURIOUS

 

[popsicle]

Just my opinion people! The US LOVES its prison systems, I know.....
My opinion is that Noor made an awful and impulsive mistake that ended a woman's life and should never again be a cop or allowed to own a gun. He needs to be punished somehow. BUT I don't think he's evil or that our society will be safer with him locked up for life. As long as he doesn't own a gun / isn't a cop, I don't see him continuing to harm people or acting violently. But this is just my opinion and I'll keep my future posts focused on the case.

Except that's not the criteria for charging and convicting someone of a homicide.

 

[PrairieWind]

just imagine being Officer Harrity at this point...his "partner" has shut down and will not talk and you are left to try to answer questions. I hope he continues to be helpful but I imagine he faces some charge too in terms of not having the cam on etc.

It sounds to me like Harrity is being cooperative. And I don't see so far that he has done anything criminally wrong. He may have violated policy by not activating the camera, but that is not a criminal issue, just an administrative violation. He probably would only face a reprimand for that at most. But honestly we would need to see a lot of the actual facts to determine whether he violated those camera policies or not. We have heard a lot "reports" and "expert's opinions" but those are likely not based on actual knowledge of the real facts here. So I would reserve judgment on that.
Harrity's best course of action is to tell his side of the story. If he tells the truth, it will match the evidence that exists. Since Noor isn't talking, I doubt that Harrity wants to go down with Noor's sinking ship.

 

[bluedivergirl]

Some interesting tidbits about his personal life from this Australian source:

[FONT=&quot]He was only 21 when he met the girl who he thought was the love of his life. She was Salma Hussein, a fellow Somali of the same age who had just qualified as a medical laboratory technician. They were both educated and employabl*e. Middle-class America beckoned.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They lived together in Minneapolis but never married, later describi*ng themselves as ‘‘culturally married in the Islamic faith but not civilly married’’.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...e/news-story/fdab18284e95edd7e5f50272464232f0
[/FONT]

 

[PrairieWind]

I'd be FURIOUS if I were Harrity. He must have almost been shot himself, and now his life is a mess and a woman is dead, and Noor is silent.....FURIOUS

I am guessing this is probably indeed the case.

 

[Tawny]

TY Honestly, I don't get why this is even being questioned since she thoroughly explained the reasoning for her response. jmo

Uhh because I am learning the differences between doctors, RNs, and Anesthetists and had a legitimate question as to why an anesthetist would say an RN was posting something "wildy inaccurate".

 

[Betty P]

None of the situations listed happened in this case.....lights weren't on, car didn't crash, doors weren't open, they weren't speeding......what makes you state that they manually turned the body cameras off? I completely agree that the shooting should have been recorded, but I think it's a stretch to say they were manually disabled. MOO

My theory is that the lights were not turned on specifically to avoid having the body cams automatically turn on.

Regardless of how it happened, they were in violation of the rules when they chose not to turn on their body cams. Those are the rules and at least one of them will likely lose his job as a result.

 

[Betty P]

It sounds to me like Harrity is being cooperative. And I don't see so far that he has done anything criminally wrong. He may have violated policy by not activating the camera, but that is not a criminal issue, just an administrative violation. He probably would only face a reprimand for that at most. But honestly we would need to see a lot of the actual facts to determine whether he violated those camera policies or not. We have heard a lot "reports" and "expert's opinions" but those are likely not based on actual knowledge of the real facts here. So I would reserve judgment on that.
Harrity's best course of action is to tell his side of the story. If he tells the truth, it will match the evidence that exists. Since Noor isn't talking, I doubt that Harrity wants to go down with Noor's sinking ship.

It's already clear they were in violation of policy by not turning on bodycams. Unless they somehow sustained temporarily memory loss regarding all the departmental rules and regulations, they really don't have a good excuse.

I wonder if they're considering an independent, outside investigator. Similar incidents in the past have shown that police departments are not good at investigating themselves in past cases of killing innocent citizens. They have too many conflicts of interest.

 

[PrairieWind]

It's already clear they were in violation of policy by not turning on bodycams. Unless they somehow sustained temporarily memory loss regarding all the departmental rules and regulations, they really don't have a good excuse.

I wonder if they're considering an independent, outside investigator. Similar incidents in the past have shown that police departments are not good at investigating themselves in past cases of killing innocent citizens. They have too many conflicts of interest.

Its not clear that they were in violation for not activating the cameras yet. They were still in the car. Like I said, we need to see a lot more actual verified facts (not just rumors) to determine if policies were violated.

And the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is separate from the MSP, they are doing the investigation. I suppose at some point they could ask for federal involvement and investigation by the US Department of Justice.

 

[blue22]

Just my opinion people! The US LOVES its prison systems, I know.....
My opinion is that Noor made an awful and impulsive mistake that ended a woman's life and should never again be a cop or allowed to own a gun. He needs to be punished somehow. BUT I don't think he's evil or that our society will be safer with him locked up for life. As long as he doesn't own a gun / isn't a cop, I don't see him continuing to harm people or acting violently. But this is just my opinion and I'll keep my future posts focused on the case.

Not being evil is not mitigating evidence when a crime happens. I am not evil, I'm not dangerous. I have never hurt anyone. If I am distracted and run through a red light and kill a person in the crosswalk, I will still face jail time. The likelihood I would ever do something like that again would be as close to zero as you can get. That doesn't mean someone isn't still dead, and they weren't killed in a way that requires a penalty under our justice systems. There is absolutely no logic or sense in that. I shouldn't get to go on and not face the ramifications of my actions. Life doesn't work like that,and neither does our system. (Unless you are a cop, apparently...)

Beyond that, we know nothing about this man's character. How can you say he won't continue to harm people? We can't. And we can't base our justice system off how nice people present themselves to be.

 

[Betty P]

Its not clear that they were in violation for not activating the cameras yet. They were still in the car. Like I said, we need to see a lot more actual verified facts (not just rumors) to determine if policies were violated.

And the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is separate from the MSP, they are doing the investigation. I suppose at some point they could ask for federal involvement and investigation by the US Department of Justice.

Here's a link about the city of Minneapolis policy on body cams:

http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/policy/mpdpolicy_4-200_4-200

A. Conditions of Use (Digital and VHS Systems) (05/25/04) (09/19/08) (08/01/11)

1. MVR equipment installed in any MPD vehicle is the responsibility of the officer(s) assigned to that vehicle and shall be operated in accordance with MPD training, MPD policy and procedures, and the manufacturer’s recommendations. (08/01/11)

2. When the activation indicator is illuminated, officers should be aware that activities are being recorded. (09/19/08) (08/28/09) (08/01/11)
3. Before placing any MVR-equipped vehicle in service, officers shall conduct an MVR Equipment Check to ensure that the equipment is working properly. (05/25/04) (09/19/08) (08/01/11)

a. MVR Equipment Checks conducted on the digital MVR system shall be categorized “90 Day Retention”. (08/01/11)

b. The officer’s immediate supervisor shall immediately be notified of any missing or malfunctioning MVR equipment. (07/11/07) (08/01/11)

4. The driver shall wear the wireless microphone, verify that it is turned on and shall be responsible for ensuring that it is working properly throughout the shift. (07/11/07) (08/01/11)

5. Record Mode can be activated in the following ways: (08/01/11)

a. Automatically, when a trigger event occurs; (08/01/11)

b. Manually, by an officer via the wireless microphone, LCD monitor console, or digital video recorder (DVR) box in the vehicle’s trunk. (08/01/11)

6. MVR equipment shall be in Record Mode: (08/01/11)

· For every stop/contact where a motor vehicle is involved and shall record the stop/contact in its entirety. (04/11/07) (08/01/11)
· For domestic abuse incident interviews conducted inside or in close proximity to an MVR equipped vehicle. (08/01/11)
· Any time a person is transported in a squad, regardless of the destination. This does not apply when an authorized ride-along is the only other person in the squad. When practical, officers shall begin recording when the person is placed in the squad, regardless if transportation begins immediately following activation. (06/09/15)

7. MVR equipment may be manually deactivated during non-enforcement activities, such as protecting accident scenes, traffic posts, and/or assisting motorists. (08/01/11)

8. MVR equipment shall not be manually deactivated for an arrest, DUI, Use of Force, traffic stop or a “Significant Incident” as defined in this policy. (08/01/11)

More at the link above

Here's a link to an article about the policy

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/07/17/good-question-body-cameras/

 

[animlzrule]

Uhh because I am learning the differences between doctors, RNs, and Anesthetists and had a legitimate question as to why an anesthetist would say an RN was posting something "wildy inaccurate".

The confusion could have been avoided had the proper term been used. There are anesthesiologists (MDs) and Nurse Anesthetists (RNs with specialized training) That said, as a nurse myself, I understand what Jennifer was saying. It was not "wildly inaccurate", rather, I believe her comment is being taken wildly out of context. Yes, the GSW caused her death. Yes, pumping on a chest into which blood is pouring uncontrollably is going to hasten the emptying of her circulatory system, but ultimately it doesn't matter. She will die no matter what.

 

[turaj]

It's already clear they were in violation of policy by not turning on bodycams. Unless they somehow sustained temporarily memory loss regarding all the departmental rules and regulations, they really don't have a good excuse.

I wonder if they're considering an independent, outside investigator. Similar incidents in the past have shown that police departments are not good at investigating themselves in past cases of killing innocent citizens. They have too many conflicts of interest.

Betty...that is exactly what is happening here in Minneapolis. Since 2014 the MPD stopped investigating themselves and the BCA took over. While this seems more fair it is being used by MPD as the reason why we or they don't know anything.

 

[turaj]

The confusion could have been avoided had the proper term been used. There are anesthesiologists (MDs) and Nurse Anesthetists (RNs with specialized training) That said, as a nurse myself, I understand what Jennifer was saying. It was not "wildly inaccurate", rather, I believe her comment is being taken wildly out of context. Yes, the GSW caused her death. Yes, pumping on a chest into which blood is pouring uncontrollably is going to hasten the emptying of her circulatory system, but ultimately it doesn't matter. She will die no matter what.

enough already...if WS says someone is verified that is all most of us need.

 

[Betty P]

Police chief has returned from out of town and will give a press conference at 5 pm Central (6 pm Eastern)

http://www.startribune.com/after-justine-damond-shooting-chief-harteau-returns-to-city/435651393/

 

[everybodhi]

My opinion - Noor will likely will live in the shadow of this his whole life. Maybe his kid too. I don't think having him sit in jail is justice, at taxpayer expense, not supporting or caring for his kid, to what end? Justine is gone forever.
It's unlikely Noor will ever work as a cop again and he is facing an upheaval of his whole life. This is not getting off scot free.....

I hope he doesn't get off scot free..
At this point, he's still on paid administrative leave.
Justice is certainly not blind, in our legal system the biggest factor is often one's social standing.