MN - Justine Damond, 40, fatally shot by Minneapolis LE, 15 July 2017 #2

[Jennifer17]

Howdy to all, I've been lurking a bit but reading this thread intently. Yes in a perfect world LE should be entirely approchable but since people in the US can legally carry guns cops never know what is being hidden - so everyone is a threat until proven otherwise. Certainly we don't need jumpy, twitchy cops with loaded weapons (but isn't that why tazers were introduced? I mean to avoid accidental murders?) Let me tell you that I once got out of my car and approached an officer as he was calling in my license information - and did he ever scream bloody hell at me. Paraphrasing his words, "If you value your life lady NEVER ever walk up to my car like that! Get the f- back in your vehicle! G-damn it!" It was 6am and dark and I was late for work but I learned to regard police as enforcers, not helpers after that. It's "yes sir, yes sir, yes sir" all the way. I saw his hand on his weapon and I saw his eyes and the terror I felt was incredible. Guess I'm lucky to be alive. (I went to court after that and the judge sided with the cop totally. I'm a small, little woman but I scared a cop!)

If a police officer spoke to me like that, using that language, I would make a formal complaint. How unprofessional.

 

[mrs. moody]

Katydid23 I totally agree with you. In those days I was more naive a real chatterbox ie, "I need to get to work, I work in a hospital. Hey I can't see with that light in my eyes." Not the correct things to say at all! I've since learned correct cop-encounter etiquette, just like I've learned TSA etiquette. I've always been a cooperative, law abiding citizen so to be considered bad in any way was sort of strange! Anyhow, it will be interesting to see if Justine's fingerprints were on the back of the SUV - because being gunned down for being naive and helpful or not knowing cop-encounter etiquette is no excuse for being murdered.

 

[mrs. moody]

I told the judge everything in court but he sided with the cop.

 

[Karinna]

None of it really surprises me with the police state and militarized police nowadays. Things have definitely changed out there in the world, and unless we can somehow change it then it is the way it is. All IMO

 

[Karinna]

Howdy to all, I've been lurking a bit but reading this thread intently. Yes in a perfect world LE should be entirely approchable but since people in the US can legally carry guns cops never know what is being hidden - so everyone is a threat until proven otherwise. Certainly we don't need jumpy, twitchy cops with loaded weapons (but isn't that why tazers were introduced? I mean to avoid accidental murders?) Let me tell you that I once got out of my car and approached an officer as he was calling in my license information - and did he ever scream bloody hell at me. Paraphrasing his words, "If you value your life lady NEVER ever walk up to my car like that! Get the f- back in your vehicle! G-damn it!" It was 6am and dark and I was late for work but I learned to regard police as enforcers, not helpers after that. It's "yes sir, yes sir, yes sir" all the way. I saw his hand on his weapon and I saw his eyes and the terror I felt was incredible. Guess I'm lucky to be alive. (I went to court after that and the judge sided with the cop totally. I'm a small, little woman but I scared a cop!)

Hi & :Welcome1: I agree that LE are less approachable nowadays.

 

[Betty P]

My understanding was at the time, the policy was they were not required to turn on their body cams until they exited the patrol car and they're now working on changing that policy. Also, it was reported that they did turn on their cams when they exited their vehicle to give her CPR.

The Chief of Police and the Mayor have both stated that Noor and his partner were in violation of department policy for not turning on their bodycams. That's already been established. They were in the wrong.

 

[Karinna]

There's no proof that she hit the car in the search warrant, only a stated opinion by LE to justify the SW. There's no reason to validate that theory until they present evidence. As of now, it's only a theory.

Anyone who has followed stories of police shootings of innocent victims knows the stories told by LE don't always match the evidence. Unless they have fingerprint proof or had an eyewitness, it's just a theory.

We know they didn't turn on their bodycams or dash cams. Against regulations, they didn't record video or audio of anything that happened before or after the incident. That alone is very suspicious.

Exactly, there is no proof of anything much when there are no witnesses to what unfolded that night. No witnesses that we're aware of anyway?
They might have evidence or not?

 

[human]

If a police officer spoke to me like that, using that language, I would make a formal complaint. How unprofessional.

Ha ha. A formal complaint. The LE would be watching for you to make the slightest error so,you could get a ticket

 

[katydid23]

Katydid23 I totally agree with you. In those days I was more naive a real chatterbox ie, "I need to get to work, I work in a hospital. Hey I can't see with that light in my eyes." Not the correct things to say at all! I've since learned correct cop-encounter etiquette, just like I've learned TSA etiquette. I've always been a cooperative, law abiding citizen so to be considered bad in any way was sort of strange! Anyhow, it will be interesting to see if Justine's fingerprints were on the back of the SUV - because being gunned down for being naive and helpful or not knowing cop-encounter etiquette is no excuse for being murdered.

I totally agree that bad cop etiquette should not end up in murder. I was just trying to explain why they are so freaked when someone comes out of their vehicle and up to their cruiser.

I am 65, and remember the old days when cops gave the town drunk a ride home and people could run up to a cop car and have no fear. Things have changed.

 

[Rocco]

The Chief of Police and the Mayor have both stated that Noor and his partner were in violation of department policy for not turning on their bodycams. That's already been established. They were in the wrong.

Any chance you're the one who's wrong?

'The death of Justine Damon was a terrible tragedy, however the officers were in compliance with existing body camera policy usage at the time.'

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — All Minneapolis Police officers will be required to activate their body-worn cameras on any call the respond to, any call they initiate and any traffic stop.

Acting police chief Medaria Arradondo announced the policy changes that were made under existing laws on Wednesday morning, alongside Mayor Betsy Hodges. That requirement will be implemented on Saturday, July 29.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2017/07/26/mpls-body-cam-policy-changes/

 

[turaj]

The Chief of Police and the Mayor have both stated that Noor and his partner were in violation of department policy for not turning on their bodycams. That's already been established. They were in the wrong.

. In fact the only official statement of the MPD union is that they do not have to have the cams on while in the car...only when they get out or go to a door. They stated they were NOT IN VIOLATION> and in fact today new rules were put in place. I believe they did say that in the very beginning not knowing much of anything and they should not have said it.

 

[Jennifer17]

Betty that is just flat out wrong...don't know where your information is coming from . In fact the only official statement of the MPD union is that they do not have to have the cams on while in the car...only when they get out or go to a door. They stated they were NOT IN VIOLATION> and in fact today new rules were put in place. I believe they did say that in the very beginning not knowing much of anything and they should not have said it.

But they didn't turn them on when they got out of vehicle, as per the rules, then.

 

[bluesneakers]

Betty that is just flat out wrong...don't know where your information is coming from . In fact the only official statement of the MPD union is that they do not have to have the cams on while in the car...only when they get out or go to a door. They stated they were NOT IN VIOLATION> and in fact today new rules were put in place. I believe they did say that in the very beginning not knowing much of anything and they should not have said it.

You can read the policy here:
http://static.lakana.com/media.fox9...6/06/30/mpd-bodycam-policy_1504680_ver1.0.pdf

"By failing to turn on their body cameras when they encountered Ms. Damond, the two Minneapolis Police officers violated their department’s policy, 4-223, on body cameras,” Nelson said in a statement. “This violation of policy thwarted the public’s right to know what happened to Ms. Damond and why the police killed her. The two officers broke the policy not only when they didn’t activate the body cameras before the incident, but also when they failed to do so after the use of force.”

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/20/16004000/axon-minneapolis-police-justine-damond-body-cam

 

[turaj]

But they didn't turn them on when they got out of vehicle, as per the rules, then.

actually some reports indicate they did have them on when they got out of the car...but as usual some stories say they did not...as with all of this we simply do not know.

 

[Jennifer17]

Ha ha. A formal complaint. The LE would be watching for you to make the slightest error so,you could get a ticket

And if I did anything wrong, I would expect a ticket.

 

[grammieto5]

It’s really too bad people can’t just get together about the killing of innocent people. If everyone could just stop making this an ‘us versus them” issue. Stop keeping score of how many white, black, brown, LE innocent lives have been lost. Start keeping score of how many innocent lives have been lost.

 

[KaaBoom]

Respectfully...here in Minneapolis I am amazed at the lack of press this case is getting compared to the two last officer involved shootings.

You are not looking very hard. Two weeks later and it is still on the front page.

Star Tribune Home Page

 

[turaj]

You are not looking very hard. Two weeks later and it is still on the front page.

Star Tribune Home Page

maybe I'm not...that may be true and I hope that this story is still front and center....it sure will be when a decision on charging is made.

 

[turaj]

There can not possibly be an ordinance claiming public isn't allowed to look at police officers on call.

i don't think I said "looking" but approaching them...maybe even pounding their car...as I said I don't know but I do see the wisdom of giving them space to do their job...they cannot be engaging with curious citizens while trying to respond to a call that potentially could end in gunfire etc. We had a case last year where an officer was detaining a black citizen and a woman tried to intervene because she did not like the way he was being handled ....he did threaten to arrest her for interfering with his call. I do believe that can happen.

 

[anonypotomous]

It’s really too bad people can’t just get together about the killing of innocent people. If everyone could just stop making this an ‘us versus them” issue. Stop keeping score of how many white, black, brown, LE innocent lives have been lost. Start keeping score of how many innocent lives have been lost.

Exactly. Well said.


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