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  • #81
  • #82
She didn't drive into them at all. Look at the wheels.

Edited as don't know if source is allowed.
At 0:13 she drives not him and at :14 he shoots while he's still in front of the car. I'm watching the linked video.
 
  • #83
At 0:11 I clearly hear a lawful order to get out of the car. I clearly see her decide to ignore the lawful order and drive into agents.

Not what I see or hear at all.

I clearly hear one agent tell her to "get out of HERE" not out of the car, while another one tries to open her car door. Anyway, her not getting out of the car doesn't give them permission to shoot her. She was not breaking the law. She is allowed to be in her car and she did not, under any circumstances, "drive into agents." That never happened.

MOO.
 
  • #84
Another officer also yells at her to leave the scene, so which order was she supposed to follow? She had 5 agents approaching her, all telling her different things.
THIS!!!!

She was told to leave and she was told to get out of her car. Then the ICE agents killed her.
 
  • #85
At 0:11 I clearly hear a lawful order to get out of the car. I clearly see her decide to ignore the lawful order and drive into agents.
is that a lawful order? what right do they have lawfully?
 
  • #86
At 0:11 I clearly hear a lawful order to get out of the car. I clearly see her decide to ignore the lawful order and drive into agents.
Not a lawful order. As a US citizen they had no authority over her. And they gave conflicting orders, one saying get out of here, move and another saying get out and trying to open her car door. They created this nightmare. She was the victim of their lack of lawful authority and proper training.
 
  • #87
from what i understand those were AI generated.
There’s moments from the full video where he is wearing a face covering, but his upper face is clearly exposed.
 
  • #88
Not what I see or hear at all.

I clearly hear one agent tell her to "get out of HERE" not out of the car, while another one tries to open her car door. Anyway, her not getting out of the car doesn't give them permission to shoot her. She was not breaking the law. She is allowed to be in her car and she did not, under any circumstances, "drive into agents." That never happened.

MOO.
She NEVER rammed him, video does not lie, wheels were turning amongst all the shouting, away to go away down the street. If they wanted her away from there, let her. Not what he wanted, the one, the killer, he wanted to shoot her and he had to actually GO to HER to do that. IMO
 
  • #89
At 0:13 she drives not him and at :14 he shoots while he's still in front of the car. I'm watching the linked video.

Because HE put himself in front of her car. He is shooting her when he's at the side of her car. He was not in any danger whatsoever.

MOO.
 
  • #90
is that a lawful order? what right do they have lawfully?
It’s not a lawful order. They don’t have authority over her. They could ask her to leave. It’s already been confirmed she was not being investigated by ICE.
 
  • #91
There’s moments from the full video where he is wearing a face covering, but his upper face is clearly exposed.
I saw his WHOLE face, up close. Waving his fingers around like get out of here, as in out of my face. The person videoing him.
 
  • #92
is that a lawful order? what right do they have lawfully?

Like it or not they are federal agents and that get out of the car was the lawful order.
 
  • #93
At 0:13 she drives not him and at :14 he shoots while he's still in front of the car. I'm watching the linked video.
1) he steps towards the front left of the vehicle, instead of backing away. He created the dangerous situation. 2) the vehicle was not going fast enough to cause an imminent threat.
 
  • #94
Like it or not they are federal agents and that get out of the car was the lawful order.
stongly disagree, has nothing to do with like it or not.

Has everything to do with exactly how much authority ICE has over US citizens in their hunt for undocumented illegal aliens. Hint, it's not as much as some think.
 
  • #95
Like it or not they are federal agents and that get out of the car was the lawful order.
No, it’s quite literally not a lawful order. ICE does not have jurisdiction to stop civilian vehicles without reasonable suspicion of an undocumented immigrant in the car, or a warrant that targets a person in the vehicle. You are simply wrong. See my citations in post #83.

ETA multiple pieces of legislation that restrict ICE from stopping civilian vehicles:

1) The 4th amendment - requires reasonable suspicion for any investigative stop of a vehicle by federal agents
2) Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 - requires reasonable suspicion for a stop
3) United States v. Brignoni-Ponce, 422 U.S. 873 - immigration officers cannot stop a vehicle without reasonable suspicion
4) Federal Regulation 8 C.F.R. 278.8(b) - ICE officers may only briefly detain a person if they have reasonable suspicion the person is engaged in an immigration violation
 
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  • #96
Like it or not they are federal agents and that get out of the car was the lawful order.

I'm going to need a source on that. What you're saying is not fact.
 
  • #97
Like it or not they are federal agents and that get out of the car was the lawful order.

"And if you don't get out of the car, we will shoot you in the face." SMH
 
  • #98
I very clearly see an officer in front of the vehicle as the woman very rapidly accelerates into a turn and the camera angle changes. In the two incidents that I cited, the accelerations towards the officers were far slower.

The above aside, I don't think the woman was trying to run over the officer. Rather, I firmly believe that she would have continued to turn, then drove away once she had completed the turn (and cleared the officer).

In the end I think the shooting was "justifiable" in the technical legal sense but not truly justified ethically.

The officer should have noted that the vehicle was tightly turning away from him (while also moving towards him). At the same time, the officer cannot read minds and did not know her true intent.
BBM.

Absolutely NOT. jmo.
 
  • #99
Isn't it crazy? A woman is dead because of trigger happy ICE. It's going to get worse too because of the false statements made by WH and Noem.
Noem said there was bad weather and an ICE vehicle was stuck, but the road and skies look clear in the videos. Was a vehicle stuck?

She says ICE agents conducting an operation got stuck in the snow and were attempting to push out their vehicle when a woman attacked them.

jmopinion
 
  • #100
I happened to be watching news and very 'fortunate' to see the Mayor speak live and NOT have his angry words blurbed out. He was so furious with excellent reason, the spin. We knew right off, I did, that there would be a huge attempt at a SPIN. Lots of witnesses, cameras going. That speaker woman who dresses up to suit the background and her story out in 'the wild' came on as a 'sherriffy' looking person, instantly spewed her BS from Texas somewhere, AS A FACT AND END OF STORY. Anyone seeing the immediate position of the car, as told by a witness, and the immediate area around it, can see, NO NEED for anyone to shoot right into the driver side windshield, low. I saw the bullet hole in the seat as well.. a graphic scene, but it is vid that may NOT be shown as the minutes go by with this admin. This was a 'white woman' that I believe said to be 30 something. IM

I'm going to need a source on that. What you're saying is not fact.
If I see a bunch of agents with guns surounding my car its not the time to look a a law book, its time to comply.
 
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