MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #4

[al66pine]

Suspect Actions, Not Same as Probable Cause.

Personally I do not understand the witch-hunt for JW. Clearly LE has a bunch of info that we are not privy too, if Police thought that JW’s actions were suspect they would have arrested him prior to him checking into rehab.
At this point JW should be considered innocent until proven otherwise by LE and/or a court of law.

snipped for focus @Data Sleuth First, I do not understand the witch-hunt for JW either.
But as to post's other point: "... if Police thought that JW’s actions were suspect they would have arrested him..."
On Tuesday night or in the next couple days? Arrest for what criminal offense? Existence of three dead bodies in back yard? Bodies w "no obvious signs of foul play" IIRC, per LE in early statements. A strange, unusual, weird, downright hinky circumstance? Absolutely, positively yes. But a homicide arrest --- of anyone--- before tox tests were done? Before autopsy reports w CoD & MoD were completed? Nope.

To arrest, more than “suspect” actions is needed.
To establish probable cause for an arrest, LE needs evd. that
--- a crime has been committed, which CoD & MoD in autopsy reports may (or may not) provide and
--- a certain person did it.
As ^ post said, LE has more info now. In the meantime, JW is presumed innocent.

imo
ETA: added a couple sentences.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Has anyone here ever slept 48 straight hours??? Just wondering.. in my younger days (of drugging and thugging) I could never in my wildest dreams sleep for 2 days straight. When I was younger I was the opposite of "clean"; just wondering if anyone here has taken enough dope to be knocked out for 48 hours??

Happens all the time, it's just not something you hear parents or drug addicts talk about. Usually serious drug use comes in combination with uppers (coke, meth, crack, adderall, ketamine) to get going and then opiates/alcohol (Xanax, clonazepam) to come down. These addicts often stay up for days at a time without eating or hydrating and then crash from physical and mental exhaustion. Any of the above mentioned uppers cut with fentanyl could cause instant death.

Throwing an opiate and/or alcohol on top of the above mixture to try and come down is what can suppress the breathing causing death. I can think of 10 actors or famous people off the top of my head that have died by this deadly combination recently.

So yes people, it happens all the time all over the world not just in the US and not just to 'junkies' or movie stars.

<modsnip - off topic>

ALL IMO

 

[Forest_Wood]

Has anyone here ever slept 48 straight hours???

Where was it ever stated though that he slept 48 straight hours?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I don't think there is a witch hunt for JW - not here on WS at least. There are legitimate, serious questions that need to be answered.

 

[starlightstarbright]

Speaking from experience, people with substance abuse problems quite often ‘write off’ Mondays if they are partying all weekend. I used to spend a lot of time napping on Mondays while occasionally vaguely looking at emails to respond to the bare minimum to make it look like I really was ‘working’ from home. People often drink or use a bit but not as much on that ‘come down’ day. If I hadn’t had to get my kids to school, I can see not surfacing until late in the day on Tuesday (with a wine glass in hand!). It’s also not uncommon to avoid any messages or calls because people don’t want to face interaction with anyone or embarrassment over what they did or said while drunk/high. Actually, not fully snapping back into reality until the police turn up at your door 48 hours later doesn’t sound that far fetched to me at all, thinking as someone with an addiction (and thankful to be sober and have left those days behind me now.) MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Threads are dedicated to discussing specific cases.

Unless the bulk of a post relates directly to the case at hand, it is off topic and will probably be deleted.

Please read this.

 

[Data Sleuth]

I don't think there is a witch hunt for JW - not here on WS at least. There are legitimate, serious questions that need to be answered.

Certainly LE is/has looked into various scenarios regarding the 3 deaths, as well as JW and #5’s involvement if any. We have to be patient and await for the release of their findings and investigation.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Certainly LE is/has looked into various scenarios regarding the 3 deaths, as well as JW and #5’s involvement if any. We have to be patient and await for the release of their findings and investigation.

I haven't seen anybody call that into question? Clearly we have to wait for the official findings. That's how it is in every case. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the possibilities. It's pretty much what we do here.

 

[Data Sleuth]

I haven't seen anybody call that into question? Clearly we have to wait for the official findings. That's how it is in every case. That doesn't mean we can't discuss the possibilities. It's pretty much what we do here.

I agree regarding the intent of this site, I was referring to very specific questions as this, we have no idea what JW was doing the following days. The list would be endless:
*sleeping
*working
*playing video games
*watching TV
*making soup
*surfing the internet
*etc, etc,

 

[Wallendo]

The news comes only days after police in Kansas City received the preliminary toxicology report on the men’s deaths, and according to family sources, the men had drugs in their systems, including cocaine and fentanyl.

MSN

The most likely cause of death, if this report is correct, is that the three who died were on the back of the house using cocaine unknowingly laced with fentanyl. It is hard to imagine any other way that three grown men would die while sitting on a back porch. The main question for me would be the provenance of that cocaine. Did one of the three buy it, or was it given to them by someone else. If there was significant drinking during the game., even a small amount of fentanyl would be fatal.

In my area, unintentional fentanyl overdose often happens to cocaine users who don't know their drugs have been contaminated.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Is that the reason this case is getting so much traction in the news? It's so silly to think JW stole cocaine and fentanyl from his work and just gave it to his friends!
It's very unlikely someone would jeopardize their entire career just to party with his buddies on the weekend. I think this theory is popular because it absolves the other men of their personal responsibilities and creates a narrative that they were not really interested in drugs. Easy to say they caved to "peer pressure" when they can't speak for themselves.

Many parents of addicts are ignorant/in denial. JW is the only one in recovery because he is the only one left alive.

I realize the elderly parents of the three men are in a lot of pain, and can understand why they feel the way they do.

The only reason why this case has gotten so much traction in the news relative to the other cases is the sensational fact that the bodies were outside, frozen and the lone survivor carried on in the house for 2 days with his friends dead in his backyard.

 

[Cedars]

Certainly LE is/has looked into various scenarios regarding the 3 deaths, as well as JW and #5’s involvement if any. We have to be patient and await for the release of their findings and investigation.

If the family hadn't made this a major news story by being furious at JW (as thread title indicates), would anyone know about it at all?

It was never police who took this to the media. They only do so if someone is missing, or if they determine a crime was committed.

If LE do not charge anyone with a crime, will they release the official cause of death, or provide any explanation of what JWs story is?

Many fentanyl overdoses never make it to the news. The cause of death is released to close family, it's up to them who to tell that to.

When there is widespread media interest, like Prince who died of fentanyl OD in 2016, is it released by police or by their publicists...?

And especially if JW's actions are not described in a criminal complaint, I don't see how they'll be released, unless he wants to talk about it to the media...and why would he want to do that?

JMO

 

[GXP Sleuther]

While I haven't, when I was telling my mom this story, she was very adamant that it was possible if someone was using drugs. While she never did drugs, she did have a rich boyfriend, before she met my dad, who did drugs, so I know she's witnessed it first hand.

I've overdosed more times than I can actually count.. I've woken up to IV's in my arms and EKG machines surrounded by paramedics. I turned my life around at 25 but I can say with 100% confidence that 48 straight hours of sleep is practically impossible JMO. (former addict).

13-16 hours of sleep after a long binge seems about right. However going into REM sleep for 48+ hours just "sounds nice".. If you throw in Fentanyl+Cocaine I can't see anyone sleeping 48hrs without dying from the effects. The deceased were given a lethal level of drugs, and the others apparently did not. Didn't two of them drive home?? This story is fascinating because there are 3 dead bodies in a guy's backyard and he couldn't answer a phone call, broken window, text message and facebook messages; BUT he answers the door for LE almost naked drinking wine. IF he was asleep for 48hrs I can't imagine someone waking up from a near death overdose with a wine glass in his underwear.

A lot of people said he might have heard the sirens, or aggressive LE knocks-- if he did, why would he answer half naked drinking a glass of wine??? I'm pretty sure anything said to LE (drunk) isn't admissible. Did JW intentionally go to the LE station knowing damn well anything he said under the influence can't be used against him?

 

[GXP Sleuther]

I slept for nearly 36 hours once. Way back in the day when I was 19 after coming down from rolling on ecstasy for the first time. But I’d been awake for nearly that long before I crashed. 10 out of 10 would not recommend.

Lol, I can relate 100%. However, we didn't have our 3 friends dead bodies (and their vehicles parked) in our backyard's/front yards. We also didn't have LE and families of our friends blowing up every electronic device and breaking windows etc..

 

[GXP Sleuther]

Suspect Actions, Not Same as Probable Cause.

snipped for focus @Data Sleuth First, I do not understand the witch-hunt for JW either.
But as to post's other point: "... if Police thought that JW’s actions were suspect they would have arrested him..."
On Tuesday night or in the next couple days? Arrest for what criminal offense? Existence of three dead bodies in back yard? Bodies w "no obvious signs of foul play" IIRC, per LE in early statements. A strange, unusual, weird, downright hinky circumstance? Absolutely, positively yes. But a homicide arrest --- of anyone--- before tox tests were done? Before autopsy reports w CoD & MoD were completed? Nope.

To arrest, more than “suspect” actions is needed.
To establish probable cause for an arrest, LE needs evd. that
--- a crime has been committed, which CoD & MoD in autopsy reports may (or may not) provide and
--- a certain person did it.
As ^ post said, LE has more info now. In the meantime, JW is presumed innocent.

imo
ETA: added a couple sentences.

yeah that will do it. (BBM)

 

[NCWatcher]

I've overdosed more times than I can actually count.. I've woken up to IV's in my arms and EKG machines surrounded by paramedics. I turned my life around at 25 but I can say with 100% confidence that 48 straight hours of sleep is practically impossible JMO. (former addict).

13-16 hours of sleep after a long binge seems about right. However going into REM sleep for 48+ hours just "sounds nice".. If you throw in Fentanyl+Cocaine I can't see anyone sleeping 48hrs without dying from the effects. The deceased were given a lethal level of drugs, and the others apparently did not. Didn't two of them drive home?? This story is fascinating because there are 3 dead bodies in a guy's backyard and he couldn't answer a phone call, broken window, text message and facebook messages; BUT he answers the door for LE almost naked drinking wine. IF he was asleep for 48hrs I can't imagine someone waking up from a near death overdose with a wine glass in his underwear.

A lot of people said he might have heard the sirens, or aggressive LE knocks-- if he did, why would he answer half naked drinking a glass of wine??? I'm pretty sure anything said to LE (drunk) isn't admissible. Did JW intentionally go to the LE station knowing damn well anything he said under the influence can't be used against him?

While there has been alot of discussion here about sleeping for 48 hours straight because a poster asked if that was possible or if anyone ever had, I don't believe it's ever been reported anywhere that JW said he slept for 48 hours straight. (Plus that would mean he fell asleep around 9pm Sunday just after the party got going.) And I am sure it's not been reported he answered the door to LE drinking wine. People do drink wine in their own homes in the evening & there's nothing wrong with that. But it's been reported JW had a stemmed glass of water in his hand when he answered the door in his shorts, an outfit not that uncommon for some men when at home. And there is no evidence that I'm aware of that says JW was drunk when talking to LE. And even if he was, why would that mean anything he said couldn't be used in court?

We don't know where the drugs came from so I think it's a little early to say the deceased "were given a lethal level of drugs" while the other two men were not. From the report of the early tox results (a report that came from family members, not LE) the deceased had ingested a lethal level of fentanyl. That's not quite the same thing even if the family members' report is accurate. MOO.

 

[MyBelle]

I've overdosed more times than I can actually count.. I've woken up to IV's in my arms and EKG machines surrounded by paramedics. I turned my life around at 25 but I can say with 100% confidence that 48 straight hours of sleep is practically impossible JMO. (former addict).

13-16 hours of sleep after a long binge seems about right. However going into REM sleep for 48+ hours just "sounds nice".. If you throw in Fentanyl+Cocaine I can't see anyone sleeping 48hrs without dying from the effects. The deceased were given a lethal level of drugs, and the others apparently did not. Didn't two of them drive home?? This story is fascinating because there are 3 dead bodies in a guy's backyard and he couldn't answer a phone call, broken window, text message and facebook messages; BUT he answers the door for LE almost naked drinking wine. IF he was asleep for 48hrs I can't imagine someone waking up from a near death overdose with a wine glass in his underwear.

A lot of people said he might have heard the sirens, or aggressive LE knocks-- if he did, why would he answer half naked drinking a glass of wine??? I'm pretty sure anything said to LE (drunk) isn't admissible. Did JW intentionally go to the LE station knowing damn well anything he said under the influence can't be used against him?

He allowed LE to search his house and he spoke to them without an attorney being present.

I am assuming he was wondering who was knocking on his door at that time of night so he looked out a window and saw the cars/uniforms and that is why he opened the door. Holding a wine glass while wearing underwear isn't illegal.

JMO

 

[rleigh123]

[...]
All JMO. These are deep issues. Whole thing would sit better with me if the family were trying to raise funds for an ongoing boost to drug enforcement in their area. Trying to find out more about the cause of such obviously drug-fueled deaths doesn't accomplish much, LE-wise. Or in terms of Justice. I'm sure LE are going to look hard at where the drugs came from - and I wouldn't be surprised if someone who knows the three deceased has some clues (the family could aid by trying to find that information - several "friends" of the deceased were involved in trying to find them or are speaking out about them). I suspect AWD (5th guy) knows something - but he has lawyered up. And therein are another set of barriers/problems when "accidental overdoses" occur. Some family (father of Harrington for example) have publicly acknowledged that their son would have been seeking a "high," not death. Well...that quest for a high and the use of street drugs killed him. There was an easy way to prevent it (don't do drugs) and it's very difficult and expensive to now try and find the chain of bad behavior (drug dealers) that lead to his death.

MOO

B&I by me.


Personally I would maybe give the families a pass on not yet organizing advocacy and fundraisers for changes to how the law handles drug crimes. In fact, I won't lay that expectation on them at all.

Maybe right now they're just trying to find out if their children were poisoned by F.

There's a difference between overdose and poisoning.

It's perfectly reasonable for them to be wanting to find out what happened.



(Edited for clarification due to reader misunderstanding.)

 

[December]

This story got traction because it was weirdly reported at first.

They were watching a football game (a day game) and somehow that leads to two days later three guys frozen outside of the house of a guy who has been incommunicado and says he had no idea what was going on; he didn't get any calls. Oh wait, hold up, no... They weren't watching football at JW's, they came over afterwards. Just the fact that they were there at night instead of during the day already makes more sense.

Initially, it was almost as if we were expected to believe they could not figure out how to get out of the backyard and just sat around and froze. Which, of course, they would not have done if they were in any condition to prevent it. And this is supposed to happen directly after a football game JW probably also watched. That is just confusing. Move that to it's several hours after the football game, then it makes more sense how these events could be set in motion.

 

[iridized]

B&I by me.


Personally I would maybe give the families a pass on not starting up fundraising and advocacy organizing just yet. In fact, I won't lay that expectation on them at all.

Maybe right now they're just trying to find out if their children were poisoned by F.

There's a difference between overdose and poisoning.

It's perfectly reasonable for them to be wanting to find out what happened.

Oh they started the fundraising within days. Not for any benefit to the community but to pay for funerals and to support the children and families left behind.

I've been thinking of reasons as to why LE would say almost immediately that there was no crime committed. Reasons could be many, perhaps a pill bottle, baggie, or other was found under a body or in the pockets of one of the deceased and fingerprints were run on the item with only the deceased fingerprints being present.