MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #19

[LambChop]

Orbital fracture: unconfirmed IMO simply means unconfirmed. It means RUMOR, not fact, not false, RUMOR. JMO.

What is confirmed: A blow to the face, also referred to as a punch, facial injury of unspecified nature, an ER visit, swollen face. All ove the aforementioned have been stated by the FPD.

Wasn't there a mention of the GJ getting copies of the x-rays from Officer Wilson's visit to the hospital? Why would there be any significance in an x-ray that shows no damage when a report stating no fractures would be sufficient? Any one have any thoughts about this?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Very good question, tlc. Since the GJ isn't sequestered, they could be aware of witness statements made to the media. I wonder how much they'd evaluate and or use those in determining credibility or whatever.

Hearsay is allowed in Grand Jury proceedings as far as I can tell.

Hearsay is admissible as evidence in many other judicial proceedings, such as grand jury deliberations, probation hearings, parole revocation hearings, and proceedings before administrative bodies.

I guess that means they can consider witness statements made to the media. I may be wrong though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay_in_United_States_law#Exceptions

 

[Truthy]

But the police spokesman CONFIRMED that Josies version of events was pretty accurate. So that elevates it above gossip, imo.

Third hand stories are notoriously unreliable, so to me it's "wait and see". I'm about as cynical as you get though. I don't "elevate" anyone or anything till I see the whole thing. LOL.
"pretty" accurate is kind of evasive. the devil is always in the details, imho.

SO, moo.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Wasn't there a mention of the GJ getting copies of the x-rays from Officer Wilson's visit to the hospital? Why would there be any significance in an x-ray that shows no damage when a report stating no fractures would be sufficient? Any one have any thoughts about this?

I'm not understanding your question. Are your asking if an x-ray is needed to prove that officer Wilson did or didn't suffer a fracture? Or are you asking if a report is enough?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Because after the opinion of the GJ is the first time we will actually see REAL evidence reports, and not third hand accounts from GF's GF or a friend of someone working for the police. It's all pretty much third hand info, to me it's all gossip.
Can't be sure of anything until real evidence is presented. Well... others can, but I think ANYTHING is possible.

I guess my question to you is, why bother participating now? Why not wait until everything is released when there is no indictment? Or ....why not wait until the end of the trial after the jury renders one, to begin participating in the discussion?

Seems strange to me....




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[Klood-N]

True- I am getting confused by posters citing anonymous, third hand gossip as fact, not opinion, as they should. It's not very helpful, IMHO.

This is getting old. If some don't want to consider the orbital fracture reports, don't. If some do, they can. Rumor/gossip are not the same as media reports and law enforcement leaks. <modsnip>

 

[Truthy]

We haven't been privy to any forensic evidence. Yet many are "sure" of things that only forensics can only prove or disprove.

Which is why I am waiting to cast my lot on this sad case.

My gut says OW acted justifiably. But the exaggeration and spin on the specifics without any forensic confirmation make me second-guess myself. If a man is innocent of wrong-doing, why is there all the BS dodgy "info" (from sources close to LE&#65533;&#65533 quoted in both MSM and in posts here?

If witnesses are worthless and MSM is worthless, why would ANYONE here claim to have an opinion based on strictly facts when there ARE none available to us?

Exactly, and based on third hand accounts? Nope, not sure of anything and do not understand how a person could be.

 

[Oceans]

:facepalm:

Just got a twitchy eye and the start of a migraine.

My first thought is "I can't follow this case that long!"

Second thought: "Waiting until after November elections?"

Seriously, why? Many possibilities, but they're all depressing, AFAICT.

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BBM: Maybe that's the reaction authorities are hoping for in case of the protesters when it comes down that ODW might not be charged?

A lot of people might loose interest in the case, including the media, maybe including Crump & Co.

There might be a chance that there are no riots and no "burning down of Ferguson" in January.

That might be the bright side of this case. I personally was looking very much forward to get possibly some facts next month IF it would have gone as planned. Oh well...

JMO

 

[Oceans]

David Carson &#8207;@PDPJ 1m
Grand jury now has until January to decide whether to charge Ferguson officer: http://bit.ly/1wxGKvy via @STLtoday

Bummer!

 

[Klood-N]

Wasn't there a mention of the GJ getting copies of the x-rays from Officer Wilson's visit to the hospital? Why would there be any significance in an x-ray that shows no damage when a report stating no fractures would be sufficient? Any one have any thoughts about this?

Yes, it was in my long compilation. Exactly.

Hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine whether Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

Also there's no way Parks would've said that Wilson was injured, if he wasn't.

 

[katydid23]

Third hand stories are notoriously unreliable, so to me it's "wait and see". I'm about as cynical as you get though. I don't "elevate" anyone or anything till I see the whole thing. LOL.
"pretty" accurate is kind of evasive. the devil is always in the details, imho.

SO, moo.

I understand what you are saying. And I think cynicism is a fine attribute. I applaud you for that. But this is a 'discussion' forum and we are speculating, fantasizing, criticizing and formulating responses to what little we are given. And I think that when msm gives a succinct quote with specifics, and says it is from a source close to the top brass, it is probably pretty accurate. I disagree that 'pretty accurate' means evasive. I think it means fairly accurate, basically correct. jmo

If Josies version was way off base and full of errors, we would have been told that already, imo.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yes, it was in my long compilation. Exactly.

Hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine whether Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...7524ea-293c-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

Also there's no way Pars would've said that Wilson was injured, if he wasn't.

And x-rays don't show bruising! They show FRACTURES!!

Deductive reasoning at its finest! IMO

Either way.... I'm convinced 100% of the assault on Wilson...that was enough for me.


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[tlcya]

Wasn't there a mention of the GJ getting copies of the x-rays from Officer Wilson's visit to the hospital? Why would there be any significance in an x-ray that shows no damage when a report stating no fractures would be sufficient? Any one have any thoughts about this?

Wow, if there was I missed it. But there were several days I was pretty out of it for health reasons and entirely possible I could have.

If I understand correctly the GJ can request/demand to see its own evidence. So I can see where an X-ray showing nothing or showing an orbital fracture may have been presented if those jurors did happen to catch wind of the disputed injuries in the news. I know any x-rays and medical reports illustrating any injuries suffered by OW that exist from that ER visit would be something I as a juror in th GJ would be requesting. Thanks LC

Off to google that now.

 

[Klood-N]

I wonder what the Grand Jury will think if the majority of the evidence is exculpatory? Will they ask themselves "Why are we hearing this case?".

I don't think so. Per previous reporting/links, all homicides aka one person killing another in the county go before the grand jury.

 

[Frydaddy]

Because after the opinion of the GJ is the first time we will actually see REAL evidence reports, and not third hand accounts from GF's GF or a friend of someone working for the police. It's all pretty much third hand info, to me it's all gossip.
Can't be sure of anything until real evidence is presented. Well... others can, but I think ANYTHING is possible.

Still doesn't answer why some are here if they will only accept what the Grand Jury has heard and every word up until this point is gossip. The idea that Wilson used excessive force is based on the same thing...gossip...though far less substantiated. IMO, as requested!

 

[Frydaddy]

i guess my question to you is, why bother participating now? Why not wait until everything is released when there is no indictment? Or ....why not wait until the end of the trial after the jury renders one, to begin participating in the discussion?

Seems strange to me....




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this!

 

[katydid23]

And truthy, let me add one more thing about the meaning of 'pretty accurate":

RE: The Fractured eye socket story.

Obviously none of us know it his socket is truly fractured or not fractured. But the one thing we do know is that it is 'pretty accurate' that he had a fairly serious injury to his face. We know so because the hospital gave him am x-ray to check if it was fractured. They would not have done so if the doctor did not see some evidence that it might have been fractured. Thus, he did have some injuries visible that could have denoted a fracture.

 

[tlcya]

only finding references to the unnamed source who leaked alleged existence of orbital fracture stating that x-rays illustrating the alleged fracture had been submitted to prosecutor and that he would in turn be presenting them to GJ. Nothing confirming such x-rays actually exist beyond the unnamed sources.

I am still considering it rumor til I hear from someone in official capacity willing to go on the record about them. thats just me.

 

[LambChop]

Not sure they can do this but the better question for the GJ might be did MB use excessive force in the SUV which may have determined his fate the minute he started walking towards Officer Wilson? Officers have to make life and death decision within seconds. What could Michael Brown have done to change the outcome of this shooting?

 

[Truthy]

And truthy, let me add one more thing about the meaning of 'pretty accurate":

RE: The Fractured eye socket story.

Obviously none of us know it his socket is truly fractured or not fractured. But the one thing we do know is that it is 'pretty accurate' that he had a fairly serious injury to his face. We know so because the hospital gave him am x-ray to check if it was fractured. They would not have done so if the doctor did not see some evidence that it might have been fractured. Thus, he did have some injuries visible that could have denoted a fracture.

Yep, we do not know about the fracture, there are only "believers" with opinions, IMHO.
I'm soo very cynical, anything less than plain "accurate" or "100 accurate"means that they already know there are details that are off, IMHO. Not good enough for me! YMMV.