MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #21

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #941
It is unfortunate that the "peaceful" protesting residents of Ferguson have allowed themselves to be co-opted by race hustlers. I know from speaking to people that live in and around St. Louis that they over the shenanigans.

The people I know in the St. Louis area pretty much see the wrong and the right on all sides. Everyone I interact with understands the criminal justice system enough to understand that it needs to play itself out. They also comprehend the difference between arresting someone currently as opposed to convicting someone without a trial. A vast majority that I speak to currently don't see the need or the sense in arresting OW at this point as a GJ is already hearing the case. On the larger picture, a vast majority pay little attention to the rhetoric from either side yet are not so blinded as to deny the problems that do exist in our community. A vast majority are fully in favor of the changes that are already being seen in the area. Town hall meetings. New facility for the youth. Job fairs. Significant investment by major corporate citizens back into the community. Municipal court reform.
 
  • #942
Not sure how to work this on my phone. In case it doesn't post, I'm replying to Sonya610. I have literally had to cut about 7 people from my life (which constitutes many to me, given the number of people I associate with) because they supported the rioting. These were people who shocked me with their views, as I had never known them to be violent or support violence in any way. Again, it's about the climate in Ferguson. This struck a chord with a lot of people, and they reacted. Some reacted in ways I never saw coming, but I had no problem eliminating that element from my life.
 
  • #943
This tweet's purpose was to make a point. The point is, to many in Ferguson, they'd be better off electing a dead guy to serve than some of the actual candidates out there. Not the most eloquent way of making the point, but you're dealing with young men who are in deep pain. They are 18-25 years of age for the most part, and they're expressing outrage the only way they know how.

We have actually identified a candidate that we are supporting. The candidate is alive, is a resident of Ferguson, and is a Republican. Some are surprised, thinking we would never put a Republican in office, but that's just another example of an inaccurate stereotype of our area rearing its ugly head. This candidate has not officially announced, so I can't name the person, but the announcement is coming soon. The person has long-time ties to the community, is conservative, but truly understands the challenges faced in Ferguson, and is dedicated to serving the city.

Thank you for answering my question. I was confused why anyone would want to do that, waste a vote on someone who's dead. I do get it, though, especially after reading about Dooley and seeing the actions of Maria Chappelle-Nadal. I was thinking, if this is what they have to chose from no wonder they want to write in his name.

And I read your early, detailed post and I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to teach them what they should and need to know about the ins and outs of politics.
 
  • #944
Getting back to Michael and the shooting, it is intriguing to ponder whether Wilson's mike was open. That in addition to the other information that counters his narrative may have caused Dorian to ask for immunity as some postulated. Seems him, Tiffany, and Piaget are very low profile for awhile now.
 
  • #945
BBM. Tell me please what the young men are outraged about. This has been a stopping point for me, something I do not understand, but something I truly want to.
These young men- whether justified or not- perceive a system at play that is against them. They believe in their hearts that law enforcement cares nothing about them, and that the political machine not only doesn't represent them, but is actively against them. I don't agree that's the case, but I do understand that's their perception. That's where community comes I to play. Where we remind these young men that they have a voice, and they need to use it, or stop complaining. Register to vote, then show up. Get up to speed on the candidates and the issues. Show up at the townhall meetings. We want to hear them. The problem is that they don't believe we want to hear them. There's a monumental lack of trust.
 
  • #946
I'm a walking contradiction when it comes to this forum, it seems. I realize I am extremely passionate about this issue, and at times, I become a total jerk about it. It's not my intention, and for that, I truly apologize. I can't decide whether or not I'm going to keep posting here, because honestly, this forum makes me insane. On the one hand, I'm so happy there are so many of you that care about what's happening to this itty bitty town in Missouri that most people had never even heard of prior to August 9. On the other hand, the misinformation makes my blood boil. People tend to WANT to believe the residents of Ferguson are horrible people, and that literally, truly breaks my heart.

Here are some of the things I want to set the record straight on:

1. The rioters were not residents of Ferguson. They were criminals, opportunists who saw a chance to steal for their own selfish reasons, and knew that due to circumstances, they'd be able to blame the community of Ferguson for their actions. There are businesses in Ferguson that the community needed that will not reopen because of the crimes these outsiders committed. The crimes themselves are unforgivable. That they were committed in the name of Ferguson makes it even worse.

2. 99% of the people posting about Ferguson on Twitter are simply instigators. If anyone is interested in some Twitter handles that are accurately reporting the work that is being done both on behalf of the city and by the residents and authorities of the city, let me know. I can provide lots of resources. Like the looters, most of these imposters are not residents of Ferguson, nor do they represent the best interest of the city.

3. This was alluded to this morning by another poster- people question why those of us who really want to do good things in Ferguson are not speaking out against these "instigators" that do not represent us. The fact is, we are trying. Really, really trying. Registering voters, educating people about the local political system, teaching people how to use their voices in a responsible manner is EXTREMELY important, but unfortunately, totally unsexy. The media would much rather report on the 20 people who were at Busch Stadium last night (even though those people do NOT represent us) than report on the hundreds of people that were at UMSL during the same time, speaking with Claire McCaskill, Attorney Connie Rice, Gwen Ifill, the chief of the Cincinnati police department and Alderman Antonio French. That's where the REAL "protesters" were. And there were lots of us there. Watch the PBS special this Friday night, and you'll see. So many people came that they had to open an overflow room in another building to accomodate them. I was lucky enough to get there in time to get a seat in the main forum. Please know that we do contact the media in an effort to set the record straight. We do try our best to dispute what others are saying about Ferguson, but people don't seem to want to hear it. There are people in this forum who don't seem to want to hear it.

4. Like any other touchy and controversial situation, there will be imposters pretending to represent what Ferguson is all about. It has to be very difficult for those not from the area to get a grasp on what is truly the voice of Ferguson, and what isn't. The bottom line is, as another poster already stated, these problems were ongoing well before Mike Brown was shot. His death was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It didn't start with him, and it will not end with him.

5. Ferguson has given birth to a generation of young black activists. While that's extremely inspiring in so many ways, some of these young men are terribly misguided. They are distrustful of a system they have been taught to believe is against them, they have years- and in some cases, generations- of anger towards "the man" and towards any authority figure. This includes teachers, police officers, local officials, store owners- anyone and everyone they feel represents a system that does not represent or care about them. Now, not everyone has to agree with them, but they were not born angry. Their experiences do matter. I will NEVER condone violence- I have cut many people out of my life since Mike Brown's death, because they supported violence as a way of being heard. What I won't do, however, is discount their feelings. There is a reason such a huge swatch of our population is angry and desperate. Some of the responsibility for that lies within the black community itself. Some of it lies within a school district that isn't even accredited anymore. Some of it lies with public officials that do not care about the poor and disenfranchised. Some lies with LE. All I'm saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around. This will never be resolved, progress will never be made as long as people refuse to acknowledge the very real pain that resides in this community. It is real. At least TRY to understand it, if you can.

6. To the poster that wondered whether we are merely registering people to vote, or if we're also educating them, the answer is we are educating them. Again, the process isn't sexy. Most of the elected officials on the ballot do not reflect the population of Ferguson, and have run unopposed for many years. We have to change that. Getting people registered to vote is only one step. Getting them passionate enough to show up to the polls is another step. Getting people who truly represent the community on the ballot is yet another step. We are working hard- day in and day out- to do these things.

7. While instigators are doing crazy things online and at Busch Stadium, real work is being done in the local churches. There are many youth programs and outreach groups that are working with the hundreds of young AA men who really do want to affect change in Ferguson. As locals, we are not paying any attention to the few that instigate with banners at Busch Stadium. We are focusing on the men who WANT to make a difference, who don't care about their 15 minutes of fame, who want to make their community better.

Hopefully that clears some stuff up. Again, the vast majority of Ferguson wants progress. Please do not assume that people in front of a camera, simply because they say they represent us actually do. 99% of the time, they don't. The people that are working towards positive change don't have TIME to go to a ball game and raise a ruckus with 19 other people. We are too busy actually DOING it. We have full-time jobs, we have families, and we're trying to do a lot of work in the community too. We are simply too busy making a difference in a positive way to worry about the negative. We rely on many of you to call BS where you see it, so we can keep working.

Sorry about the novel.

Thank you for this post. It is good to know that there are indeed good steps being taken to improve life there for that cities residents. I have stated several times on the MB threads that these problems existed long before MB & OW met that day, and that it has torn the scab off of a long festering wound. Please keep up the work on improving life and relations there. But, also, keep in mind that those of us viewing this from afar are only seeing what is obvious and out there, and what we see is very negative and meant to divide, not bring together. While I do accept that many or most of the trouble-makers are coming in from outside areas, I do not see a lot of separation from them. I heard from a few angry citizens that the instigators were not actually one of them, but haven't seen anyone truly try to stop them, except of course the police, who just catch it even harder for trying. This is, of course, just my opinion, but I would like to see someone who has a voice in the AA community take charge of the situation and denounce the "protestors" who are spewing hate and calling for the death of a man who hasn't even been charged as of yet. I'd like to see someone stand against the mobs as they surround cars of innocent people driving down the road and stop them from passing. I'd like to see some protestors who protested the "protestors" holding up signs that say "You Are Not Ferguson!", "Stop The Violence!", or "No More Hate!". I'd like to see Rev. Al Sharpton at the next sports event with a crowd of his own and a bullhorn trying to stop the trouble-makers from bothering innocent people, because that is all they are trying to do. They are doing nothing to further the real cause. While I, and many on here, realize that these trouble making people do not represent the real Ferguson, it is all we see. If I were a citizen there, I would start a campaign to make MSM follow the real goings on as you have explained here with the positive changes and events that are happening and stop following and reporting on only the negative. Perhaps once the "instigators" are no longer getting any attention, they will move along. All, JMO. Thanks.
 
  • #947
CMac2, thanks for providing another voice and a POV that speaks from a local perspective to provide insight into what is some of the thinking behind the scenes of these protests. For those like me watching from a distance it is hard to understand some of the actions of the protesters or their thought processes and what reasonable demands they want met.

I appreciate you giving us an idea from a protester's POV what is motivating the community to rally so vocally and why now, this case, if those problems are long standing.
 
  • #948
BBM above: for County Commissioner? Better get on it 'cause the election is 4 Nov & absentee voting starts tomorrow

currently, there are 4 candidates on the ballot for StL County Commissioner

IMHO they should have Tweeted MB for Mayor of Ferguson or something along those lines, but honestly it won't matter

IMHO Entire StL County is not representative of Ferguson; population of StL County is >1M (note this doesn't include StL City pop 313K)
This post right here is why I draw a distinction between the rioters that lived in Ferguson and those that didnt. There are many municipalities in St. Louis County (I hail from Webster Groves, personally) and lots of them have their own flavor. All of them are their own community. It is not fair to put the looting on Ferguson residents knowing the majority of those were not residents in one breath- by saying they're all local- and then point out the differences among the municipalities in the other. Not saying that's what YOU did, just seizing your post to make a point. People from Jennings don't live in Ferguson any more than people from Webster Groves live in Ferguson.
 
  • #949
To CMac-
First of all I am sorry to hear that our forum is frustrating to you. I can imagine it is tenfold due to the fact that you are so close to the situation on the ground. I hope you stick around because your commentary can provide us with a very important viewpoint, which quite honestly, everyone here, regardless of which "side"they are on at the moment, would really appreciate. I am afraid that perhaps some of us got off on the wrong foot, but this is a "safe" place and is moderated greatly by LambChop. She keeps us from getting out of control. Many of us here have been modsnipped, had our posts deleted and perhaps even given a "time out" here and there. Because it is a emotional issue and some of us can get carried away.

But for the most part, everyone here is trying to learn, to understand, etc... And I also think that just about everyone here agrees that there are racial issues in our country (we may differ on whose fault that is and what the solution is but...) I think everyone here wishes there weren't a racial divide and are upset that there seems to be some very vocal people agitating that racial divide deeper, when there are people like you who are in there trying to make change, to come together, etc...and it's a great thing.

That said - this forum, and this case, is specifically about Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. That is why so many of us find it frustrating - because it is no longer about Darren Wilson and Michael Brown. Darren Wilson is a human being. He is a law enforcement officer. He is an American with rights. He has a family, friends and even a young child. We find it outrageous that he could be tending to a sick baby one moment and then the next meets up with someone who strong arm robbed a store, attacked him, tried to take his gun away and quite possibly shot him in fear, not because he is black, but because he had just assaulted him. We all feel bad that a young man is dead. But many of us feel he put himself in that position in the first place. Now, although dead, is a "hero" and OW is a "murderer."

So I would love to learn more from you about your community and trying to overcome the greater struggle of racial inequities in this country. But to me, this case is about 2 men and what happened at 12:02 on August 9, 2014. Nothing else matters in terms of what happens to ODW. The only question is whether or not the shooting was justified, which is simply a case of did ODW have a reasonable fear for his safety or the safety of others at the time he shot MB.

So I will repeat my question from earlier in the hopes you can at least try to answer it. It is simple:

Why are there so many people who refuse to have the ability to look at this case as it stands with the facts that are before us, and more importantly, with the facts that are NOT before us, before making a judgement?
 
  • #950
One leader I'm concerned about is the state senator , Maria Chappelle, Nadal, she is continually fanning the flames of hate. IMO. Its hard to see how any young people will be able to overcome that when this is a state senator! Thanks for joining us CMac2. Do you have any thoughts on her behaviour?

Posted as a WS member and not a moderator.
 
  • #951
I'm a walking contradiction when it comes to this forum, it seems. I realize I am extremely passionate about this issue, and at times, I become a total jerk about it. It's not my intention, and for that, I truly apologize. I can't decide whether or not I'm going to keep posting here, because honestly, this forum makes me insane. On the one hand, I'm so happy there are so many of you that care about what's happening to this itty bitty town in Missouri that most people had never even heard of prior to August 9. On the other hand, the misinformation makes my blood boil. People tend to WANT to believe the residents of Ferguson are horrible people, and that literally, truly breaks my heart.

Here are some of the things I want to set the record straight on:

1. The rioters were not residents of Ferguson. They were criminals, opportunists who saw a chance to steal for their own selfish reasons, and knew that due to circumstances, they'd be able to blame the community of Ferguson for their actions. There are businesses in Ferguson that the community needed that will not reopen because of the crimes these outsiders committed. The crimes themselves are unforgivable. That they were committed in the name of Ferguson makes it even worse.

2. 99% of the people posting about Ferguson on Twitter are simply instigators. If anyone is interested in some Twitter handles that are accurately reporting the work that is being done both on behalf of the city and by the residents and authorities of the city, let me know. I can provide lots of resources. Like the looters, most of these imposters are not residents of Ferguson, nor do they represent the best interest of the city.

3. This was alluded to this morning by another poster- people question why those of us who really want to do good things in Ferguson are not speaking out against these "instigators" that do not represent us. The fact is, we are trying. Really, really trying. Registering voters, educating people about the local political system, teaching people how to use their voices in a responsible manner is EXTREMELY important, but unfortunately, totally unsexy. The media would much rather report on the 20 people who were at Busch Stadium last night (even though those people do NOT represent us) than report on the hundreds of people that were at UMSL during the same time, speaking with Claire McCaskill, Attorney Connie Rice, Gwen Ifill, the chief of the Cincinnati police department and Alderman Antonio French. That's where the REAL "protesters" were. And there were lots of us there. Watch the PBS special this Friday night, and you'll see. So many people came that they had to open an overflow room in another building to accomodate them. I was lucky enough to get there in time to get a seat in the main forum. Please know that we do contact the media in an effort to set the record straight. We do try our best to dispute what others are saying about Ferguson, but people don't seem to want to hear it. There are people in this forum who don't seem to want to hear it.

4. Like any other touchy and controversial situation, there will be imposters pretending to represent what Ferguson is all about. It has to be very difficult for those not from the area to get a grasp on what is truly the voice of Ferguson, and what isn't. The bottom line is, as another poster already stated, these problems were ongoing well before Mike Brown was shot. His death was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It didn't start with him, and it will not end with him.

5. Ferguson has given birth to a generation of young black activists. While that's extremely inspiring in so many ways, some of these young men are terribly misguided. They are distrustful of a system they have been taught to believe is against them, they have years- and in some cases, generations- of anger towards "the man" and towards any authority figure. This includes teachers, police officers, local officials, store owners- anyone and everyone they feel represents a system that does not represent or care about them. Now, not everyone has to agree with them, but they were not born angry. Their experiences do matter. I will NEVER condone violence- I have cut many people out of my life since Mike Brown's death, because they supported violence as a way of being heard. What I won't do, however, is discount their feelings. There is a reason such a huge swatch of our population is angry and desperate. Some of the responsibility for that lies within the black community itself. Some of it lies within a school district that isn't even accredited anymore. Some of it lies with public officials that do not care about the poor and disenfranchised. Some lies with LE. All I'm saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around. This will never be resolved, progress will never be made as long as people refuse to acknowledge the very real pain that resides in this community. It is real. At least TRY to understand it, if you can.

6. To the poster that wondered whether we are merely registering people to vote, or if we're also educating them, the answer is we are educating them. Again, the process isn't sexy. Most of the elected officials on the ballot do not reflect the population of Ferguson, and have run unopposed for many years. We have to change that. Getting people registered to vote is only one step. Getting them passionate enough to show up to the polls is another step. Getting people who truly represent the community on the ballot is yet another step. We are working hard- day in and day out- to do these things.

7. While instigators are doing crazy things online and at Busch Stadium, real work is being done in the local churches. There are many youth programs and outreach groups that are working with the hundreds of young AA men who really do want to affect change in Ferguson. As locals, we are not paying any attention to the few that instigate with banners at Busch Stadium. We are focusing on the men who WANT to make a difference, who don't care about their 15 minutes of fame, who want to make their community better.

Hopefully that clears some stuff up. Again, the vast majority of Ferguson wants progress. Please do not assume that people in front of a camera, simply because they say they represent us actually do. 99% of the time, they don't. The people that are working towards positive change don't have TIME to go to a ball game and raise a ruckus with 19 other people. We are too busy actually DOING it. We have full-time jobs, we have families, and we're trying to do a lot of work in the community too. We are simply too busy making a difference in a positive way to worry about the negative. We rely on many of you to call BS where you see it, so we can keep working.

Sorry about the novel.

Well said yet again. I wish I was as good with my words. It is a complete shame that there was next to no media coverage of an event that dwarfed the numbers that were at the games yesterday. Having said that, I would like to step back for a second and recognize that the people downtown, the best I could tell, were far from violent. So they carried signs and hung banners that were contrary to some people's views. When they did it in inappropriate places, they were removed. There are worse things in life happening every day.
 
  • #952
  • #953
These young men- whether justified or not- perceive a system at play that is against them. They believe in their hearts that law enforcement cares nothing about them, and that the political machine not only doesn't represent them, but is actively against them. I don't agree that's the case, but I do understand that's their perception. That's where community comes I to play. Where we remind these young men that they have a voice, and they need to use it, or stop complaining. Register to vote, then show up. Get up to speed on the candidates and the issues. Show up at the townhall meetings. We want to hear them. The problem is that they don't believe we want to hear them. There's a monumental lack of trust.

This is why it is so important to get the police involved in community meetings which would be provided to them through a Block Watch Program. Citizens need to interact with the police department because police are part of your community whether they live there or not. They spend most of their waking hours trying to keep the peace. Imagine the peace an officer would feel knowing that the majority of the community he is trying to protect had his back. Michael had a retired juvenile officer as his mentor so it is hard for many to understand what exactly went wrong. jmo
 
  • #954
IIRC Canfield Green Apartments has a "St. Louis" address. Kids there attend "Jennings" HS. Florissant is very close too, as the job fair at the community college there was less than 3 mi. from Canfield Green iirc.

actually, many areas of the County use St. Louis as the "city address" but are considered part of a different municipality; I believe zip codes are more representative of locale, such as 63135, 63136 & 63145 are considered "Ferguson"

maybe this link could be helpful (it is to me)

http://www.zipmap.net/Missouri/St._Louis_County/Ferguson.htm

and this link is AWESOME: http://www.maptechnica.com/us-city-boundary-map/city/Ferguson/state/MO/cityid/2923986

gonna have to book mark it
 
  • #955
P.S. I don't think the problem is all Ferguson. I actually think that many of the residents of Ferguson are victims in all of this as well. I think it is really unfair that people from the outside came in a rioted when a lot of people were just demonstrating peacefully. I think it is also really unfair that so many outside agitators have managed to worm their way into the fray and use the city and the family of MB to help them meet their own agendas.
 
  • #956
Sorry, people are SICK and TIRED of being called racists when they are not.

And they called for Wilson's death again. Not sure why that gets minimized by some.
 
  • #957
This tweet's purpose was to make a point. The point is, to many in Ferguson, they'd be better off electing a dead guy to serve than some of the actual candidates out there. Not the most eloquent way of making the point, but you're dealing with young men who are in deep pain. They are 18-25 years of age for the most part, and they're expressing outrage the only way they know how.

We have actually identified a candidate that we are supporting. The candidate is alive, is a resident of Ferguson, and is a Republican. Some are surprised, thinking we would never put a Republican in office, but that's just another example of an inaccurate stereotype of our area rearing its ugly head. This candidate has not officially announced, so I can't name the person, but the announcement is coming soon. The person has long-time ties to the community, is conservative, but truly understands the challenges faced in Ferguson, and is dedicated to serving the city.

That's great to hear. Can't wait to hear the announcement.

As for the criticism of the tweet, I have found that oftentimes, words or actions are taken at their face value without looking at the meaning behind them or the source that led to them.
 
  • #958
Thank you for this post. It is good to know that there are indeed good steps being taken to improve life there for that cities residents. I have stated several times on the MB threads that these problems existed long before MB & OW met that day, and that it has torn the scab off of a long festering wound. Please keep up the work on improving life and relations there. But, also, keep in mind that those of us viewing this from afar are only seeing what is obvious and out there, and what we see is very negative and meant to divide, not bring together. While I do accept that many or most of the trouble-makers are coming in from outside areas, I do not see a lot of separation from them. I heard from a few angry citizens that the instigators were not actually one of them, but haven't seen anyone truly try to stop them, except of course the police, who just catch it even harder for trying. This is, of course, just my opinion, but I would like to see someone who has a voice in the AA community take charge of the situation and denounce the "protestors" who are spewing hate and calling for the death of a man who hasn't even been charged as of yet. I'd like to see someone stand against the mobs as they surround cars of innocent people driving down the road and stop them from passing. I'd like to see some protestors who protested the "protestors" holding up signs that say "You Are Not Ferguson!", "Stop The Violence!", or "No More Hate!". I'd like to see Rev. Al Sharpton at the next sports event with a crowd of his own and a bullhorn trying to stop the trouble-makers from bothering innocent people, because that is all they are trying to do. They are doing nothing to further the real cause. While I, and many on here, realize that these trouble making people do not represent the real Ferguson, it is all we see. If I were a citizen there, I would start a campaign to make MSM follow the real goings on as you have explained here with the positive changes and events that are happening and stop following and reporting on only the negative. Perhaps once the "instigators" are no longer getting any attention, they will move along. All, JMO. Thanks.
I would love a leader to stand and do the same, denouncing the nonsense some are doing in our name. We have no shortage of leaders on the ground, and some have tried to denounce the violence to the media, but it isn't getting picked up for some reason. Regarding Al Sharpton, he's a mess. When he came to the area, he didn't even go to Ferguson. His press conference took place on the courthouse steps in the city of St. Louis, which not only is NOT Ferguson, but isn't even in the same county as Ferguson. He wasn't flanked by a single Ferguson official, but certainly had Mayor Slay (the mayor of the city of St. Louis) there. Most of us discounted him, other than to be glad for the exposure. It wasn't until the eulogy at MB's funeral that he went to Ferguson proper. If the cameras aren't rolling, he's nowhere to be found.
 
  • #959
I've never seen this picture of Officer Wilson before

https://twitter.com/Jdstl314/status/513934650201239552/photo/1

I orginally posted that photo of what appears to be OW with a county officer and a woman with yellow hair. I have come to believe that is not OW and was not taken when he testified before the GJ. I have seen a larger version of that photo which shows it was taken at the crime scene due to the crime scene tape. OW was not wearing a black t-shirt under his uniform, had a shoulder mike on and also had different patches on his sleeves.
 
  • #960
Sorry- and about French- he's not as beloved in this area as many would have you believe. Most people don't realize he isn't even an Alderman in Ferguson. He represents North City. Many believe he has plenty of violent crime to focus on in his own district, and is using Ferguson as a platform to ultimately run for mayor of St. Louis. Personally, I can't say what his motivations are. He seems all over the place to me, and my views on him, like my views on many other things, are complicated and at time, contradictory. Initially, at least, he did put a spotlight on the region, which I felt was important at the time. Too many people wanted to forget about us. How much that ultimately helped, time will tell.

My take on French is much the same. On the one hand, I do believe he is using Ferguson to further his political career. On the other hand, he has brought a voice to many that could not have other been heard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
89
Guests online
2,188
Total visitors
2,277

Forum statistics

Threads
632,749
Messages
18,631,156
Members
243,275
Latest member
twinmomming
Back
Top