GUILTY MO - Nicholas, 35, & Justin Diemel, 24, brothers missing, Clinton County, 21 July 2019 *ARREST* #2

[LietKynes]

DBM
Eta : Checking msm for information about the money trail.

If LE are looking into the finances of the perp and the victims they're more than likely not going to reveal much to the public.

Hopefully they're finding answers !

The Latest: Employee: Brothers' were lured to their deaths by Missouri cattleman | News | kctv5.com
"....An employee of two slain Wisconsin brothers says he believes a Missouri cattleman promised to give the men money to lure them to his farm so he could kill them.
<snip>
Rob Chubb managed the feeder cattle side of the business operated by the brothers.
<snip>
Authorities haven't said the brothers were lured to the property...."
<snip>
Court documents say a Missouri cattle farmer fatally shot two Wisconsin brothers who drove to his business to collect a $250,000 check, then burned their bodies....."
emph. mine

This article claims they were both shot.
At this point I'm doubtful the media knows this for a certainty !
That may be what JGN told the local LE.
Hoping it was swift and painless for the victims.
But if not, JGN isn't going to exactly say what happened.
Imo.

 

[Teleah Smith]

"KCTV5 News also called up dozens of local ranchers in that area. Our search led us to an auction company in Missouri that handled the sale of the trailer.

When we called them to ask who the seller was, they said it was none of our business and hung up.

KCTV5 News also found a friend of Nelson's mother who said the family has been trying to sell off farm equipment to make ends meet while her son is in custody, but they couldn't confirm whether the trailer in Nebraska came from the Nelson farm."

Human remains found in Nebraska linked back to missing brothers case in Missouri

 

[simlyme]

I apologize if you were offended. I understand and have tried to be very cautious about my thoughts. This is a site for civil discussion and information sharing and I want to keep within those bounds. So, understanding the high emotions in this case I have not confronted anyone posting speculation about TSF's involvement in this matter. I have in my own posts stated that I did not think she was involved. I have noticed that you have not expressed concern about such posts implicating her in this crime.

Fair is fair and she has not been charged or named as a person of interest in this case. Caution should also be used in throwing accusations against her or her family unless and until they have been mentioned by LE. Agreed?

This is a discussion driven by speculation. Hopefully, informed speculation but speculation none the less. Remains found in a trailer from Missouri rightfully causes speculation about who owned the trailer and how the remains got there.

Details about the disposal of the bodies also rightfully leads to speculation. The Probable Cause Affidavit [https://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Garland-Joey-Nelson-probable-cause-document.pdf] says that it is believed that JN acted alone or in concert with others. JN believed the bodies to be those of Nick and Justin. They were burned using Diesel and an unknown liquid. DNA was not conclusive about the identity of the remains and dental records are not mentioned. Now we have a reason to believe that one of those skulls was removed and ended up in Nebraska. LE opened this up to speculation by saying what they believed (speculated) but were not certain of. Who were these possible others? What were their ties to JN or ND & JD? What was this unknown liquid? If others were involved, who and why? What kind of person commits murder, removes heads and burns bodies? A monster like JN - possibly. Monsters with other kinds of motives - possibly.

I do not know if JN acted alone or with others. I do not know if this was a crime about cattle, money or something else. I do not know if JN was the cause of this event or one caught up in it. But without each of us widening our field of possibilities and at the same time, admitting that we may be wrong in what we believe to be true, we will never come closer to the whole truth.

And then above you say "As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

I have no idea what all you wrote meansand don't have any answers to all your questions.I base my knowledge about this case through what LE puts out . I made the comment about you saying "the possibility of a drug deal gone bad." I have never heard or read where anyone has mentioned this kind of theory about the Diemels. As far as TSF, my opinion is that she has a part in the Diemels being murdered. Otherwise I stand on my words, that the Diemels had nothing to do with any drug deal gone bad.

 

[al66pine]

When Did Diemels Start Dealing w Nelson?

If LE are looking into the finances of the perp and the victims they're more than likely not going to reveal much to the public....
The Latest: Employee: Brothers' were lured to their deaths by Missouri cattleman | News | kctv5.com ....

https://www.kctv5.com/news/local_ne...cle_0f531b74-f654-11e9-8ad7-c385dac0b479.html @LietKynes Thanks for post & link, pub Oct 24, w Nov 13 update.
From link* Diemels had done business w Nelson in January. Does that mean done business for the first time? Only time? Or that it was one deal in a continuing series?

Per the cattle-knowledgeable posters here, a deal running January to June-July(?) w (100? 130+?) calves would not seem to warrant a $250,000 payment.
jmo
-----------------------------------------------------
*. "Rob Chubb managed the feeder cattle side of the business operated by the brothers.
Chubb says he is angry.... He says the brothers had done business with Nelson in January, and that Nelson owed them money..."
^ The Latest: Employee: Brothers' were lured to their deaths by Missouri cattleman | News | kctv5.com

 

[Whassup]

And then above you say "As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

I have no idea what all you wrote meansand don't have any answers to all your questions.I base my knowledge about this case through what LE puts out . I made the comment about you saying "the possibility of a drug deal gone bad." I have never heard or read where anyone has mentioned this kind of theory about the Diemels. As far as TSF, my opinion is that she has a part in the Diemels being murdered. Otherwise I stand on my words, that the Diemels had nothing to do with any drug deal gone bad.

This is part of a long thread. The thread was preceded by a question that I answered but did not quote. My answer hinted at a possible connection to the drug trade without naming it outright. The questioner then ask if I thought the murders had a drug connection. You quote the part of my post that answered that straight-forward question with a straight-forward answer.

What I wrote that I think you do not understand are questions raised by LE. I linked to the Probable Cause Affidavit for JN's arrest. Here is the link again. [https://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Garland-Joey-Nelson-probable-cause-document.pdf] When you read it you will find a number of things that LE only "believe to be true", two that are the words that a party "said", and one that they simply call "unknown."

1. Jack Diemel said that his sons were going to Missouri to receive a $250,000 check for cattle
   
2. It is believed the brothers never left the property after they arrived.
3. It is believed that JN acted alone or in concert with others in committing the murders.
4. JN stated that he believed the bodies to be those of the brothers.
   
5. An unknown liquid was poured on the bodies along with diesel fuel.
6. JN said he placed one or two bodies in a manure pile.
7. The DNA from a blood stain on JN's clothing was confirmed by DNA but based on DNA it is believed that the remains were those of ND & JD.
8. There is a curious lack of information concerning dental records.

Add to that the latest news of a skull and jawbone found in Nebraska along with the debit card of JD, again confirmed by LE. Although I have not seen a DNA report on the latest find it is assumed to be that of JD.

From that information given by LE, and questions raised on this forum about the number of cattle it would take to be in debt $250,000 I wondered if there were possibly another motive for the murders. As I have written before, we know the backstory on JN. We have no backstory on ND & JD. As far as I know, no one has been able to substantiate the father's claim. Or to disprove it. LE seems to take his word at face value.

From that information given by LE--Possible multiple persons involved in the murders; A question if JN could positively identify the bodies he found; burned and buried bodies; an unidentified liquid also used to help degrade the bodies, at least one head probably removed--I followed the evidence looking for what type of murders used that MO in disposing of their victims. It fits the profile of drug cartels.

It was that conclusion that I use to move the discussion forward. Could JN have done this alone and used similar means of disposal as a way of trying to throw off LE? Absolutely. Is he that cunning? I don't know.

Now allow me to quote you. "I don't think it's fair to bring in any drug speculation at this time or any time unless you're privy to information or it has been mentioned by LE and you can link that information."..."As far as TSF, my opinion is that she has a part in the Diemels being murdered."

I respectfully ask you to tell us what information you are privy to, or, link to information from LE that implicates TSF in this murder.

Fair is fair.

 

[LietKynes]

Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm in error --- but I think this was the first time the Diemel's had any cattle dealings with JN.

JN has had a rather long unsavory history of defrauding others.

Hope he and anyone who helped him are put away for life.

Shawano County brothers: Hearing delayed for Missouri man charged with murder

Shawano County brothers: Missouri man Garland Nelson charged with murder


Remains found in Nebraska linked to Missouri killings | KRCG

Remains found in Nebraska linked to Missouri killings of 2 Wisconsin brothers – Twin Cities
"...The rancher had just bought the trailer through an online ad from a seller in Missouri, Kramer said. He added that Lincoln County officials seized the trailer for possible use as evidence and would work with Missouri authorities as requested...."

Hearing delayed for Garland Nelson, charged with killing Diemel brothers
"..... Nelson appeared in a Missouri court by video Thursday morning. The defense filed a motion that prompted the court to move the hearing to January 9.
The defense may have been responding to Missouri prosecutors filing a writ of habeas corpus on Wednesday, which is a request to have a defendant prosecuted in the jurisdiction where the criminal act was committed...."
<snip>
Action 2 News spoke with farmer David Foster, owner of Cash Cow Enterprises in Fort Scott, Kansas. Foster said Nelson raised cattle for him. As the business deal soured, the cattle were returned to Foster in poor condition.
"Mine were returned, they were malnourished, starved, I mean skin and bone," says Foster. "I had to help pick the calves up off the ground, onto the trailer, just so I could move them off my property."
Foster says he spoke with Nick Diemel several times and they shared frustrations about business dealings with Nelson....."
emph. mine

This is what I found about prior contact between JN and the Diemel's.
No specific dates.

The business/cattle agreements may have started to sour within the year it was arranged ?

---- Sorry I can't get the font size to behave.

Man charged in Diemel brothers murder case appears before judge

 

[Whassup]

Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm in error --- but I think this was the first time the Diemel's had any cattle dealings with JN.

JN has had a rather long unsavory history of defrauding others.

Hope he and anyone who helped him are put away for life.

Shawano County brothers: Hearing delayed for Missouri man charged with murder

Shawano County brothers: Missouri man Garland Nelson charged with murder


Remains found in Nebraska linked to Missouri killings | KRCG

Remains found in Nebraska linked to Missouri killings of 2 Wisconsin brothers – Twin Cities
"...The rancher had just bought the trailer through an online ad from a seller in Missouri, Kramer said. He added that Lincoln County officials seized the trailer for possible use as evidence and would work with Missouri authorities as requested...."

Hearing delayed for Garland Nelson, charged with killing Diemel brothers
"..... Nelson appeared in a Missouri court by video Thursday morning. The defense filed a motion that prompted the court to move the hearing to January 9.
The defense may have been responding to Missouri prosecutors filing a writ of habeas corpus on Wednesday, which is a request to have a defendant prosecuted in the jurisdiction where the criminal act was committed...."
<snip>
Action 2 News spoke with farmer David Foster, owner of Cash Cow Enterprises in Fort Scott, Kansas. Foster said Nelson raised cattle for him. As the business deal soured, the cattle were returned to Foster in poor condition.
"Mine were returned, they were malnourished, starved, I mean skin and bone," says Foster. "I had to help pick the calves up off the ground, onto the trailer, just so I could move them off my property."
Foster says he spoke with Nick Diemel several times and they shared frustrations about business dealings with Nelson....."
emph. mine

This is what I found about prior contact between JN and the Diemel's.
No specific dates.

The business/cattle agreements may have started to sour within the year it was arranged ?

---- Sorry I can't get the font size to behave.

Man charged in Diemel brothers murder case appears before judge

I'm afraid you are going down the same rabbit hole as trying to find independent confirmation of how much the Diemels were owed. Both are going to be part of the business records and those will not be turned over before trial most likely. That assumes that all transactions are on the books. Given JN's past business dealings, it is likely that books won't match. My guess is that counsel is telling both sides to keep mum about both of those issues. JMO

 

[al66pine]

How Long Doing Business?

Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm in error --- but I think this was the first time the Diemel's had any cattle dealings with JN....

@LietKynes
From link* you provided, per employee, Diemels "had done business w Nelson in January."
There are multiple possible interps for that phrasing.
Does that mean done business for the first time? Only time? Last time? Or that it was one deal in a continuing series? Of course, your thought about it being the first time is perfectly legit. And other interps may also be legit. Which is correct? I don't think we know yet.
Personally I try not to focus on one to the exclusion of others. Esp when a stmt like this ---
(1) came from a Diemels employee who may have been/likely was speaking off the top of his head (not looking at business records (assuming they exist) w dates, $ amts, terms of agreement, etc.), and
(2) was made to a reporter who was likely/probably not questioning him to the same extent, not expecting the same degree of accuracy that detective would, or that the prosecutor will use at trial. For purposes of MSM piece, that detail was likely not crucial. It very well could be at trial.
So, which interp is correct? IDK, at least not now. Another bit of data may surface and answer this publicly pre-trial. Or not.
Like you, I hope LE and prosecutors are nailing all this down for a successful prosecution of Nelson.
jmo.

 

[Teleah Smith]

Drug cartels seems very far fetched IMO. With the Stephen Avery case so popular around the country, I can see this as a parallel of sorts. JN didn't get the fire hot enough, though. Avery used tires to increase the temp of the fire. Just because the body is disposed of by an attempt at burning doesn't mean cartels were involved. People living in rural areas frequently burn piles. When the bones didn't char down as much as JN liked perhaps he attempted to spread them out. He likely knew that they could be identified by dental records so perhaps he took the skull and hid that separately after burning. I doubt that he beheaded them prior to burning. Wisconsites are often mocked for their over "friendliness" even if the Diemels knew about JN priors they may have wanted him to have a second chance.

 

[LietKynes]

It just seems like the Diemels' went down to MO and met a devil walking in the daylight.

 

[Whassup]

Drug cartels seems very far fetched IMO. With the Stephen Avery case so popular around the country, I can see this as a parallel of sorts. JN didn't get the fire hot enough, though. Avery used tires to increase the temp of the fire. Just because the body is disposed of by an attempt at burning doesn't mean cartels were involved. People living in rural areas frequently burn piles. When the bones didn't char down as much as JN liked perhaps he attempted to spread them out. He likely knew that they could be identified by dental records so perhaps he took the skull and hid that separately after burning. I doubt that he beheaded them prior to burning. Wisconsites are often mocked for their over "friendliness" even if the Diemels knew about JN priors they may have wanted him to have a second chance.

I am certainly open to that possibility. At this point a lot of things are possible because so few things are certain. Maybe the simplest answer will prove to be the right one. JN did this. Period.

It could more complicated than that. I am open to that possibility as well.

The more theories that are tried and disproved, the closer we are to the truth. I hope that my theory is proven wrong.

The latest find certainly complicates the idea that JN was in this alone. When we know where the trailer was purchased in Missouri, who the owner was, whether the remains match the personal effects found with them, whether the dirt matches that from the J4S farm, whether the person who placed it there left evidence, etc. we may know more. If LEO missed these in the search that is embarrassing. If JN hid them offsite before LEO arrived, someone had to place them on that trailer since he is in jail. Did the buyer or the auction company that reportedly sold the trailer not know they were there at date of purchase? Not to mention, just what was the purpose of putting evidence on a trailer that you are going to sell? Kind of like trying to hide evidence on the property you own. Not too bright. Or reverse psychology.

My head hurts from trying to make sense of it all.

Whatever the truth is and whoever was involved needs to be found, proved, convicted and sentenced to fit the crime. On that, I hope we can all agree.

 

[simlyme]

In this video , it is stated that the Deimels had 2 separate cattle deals with Nelson. So, that's most likely the 250K.around 4:00.Kansas farmer shares details about man connected to disappearance of two missing brothers from Wisconsin

 

[al66pine]

Amt of $ Expected to Receive or to Pay. $250,000? To Pay for What?

...Probable Cause Affidavit for JN's arrest...

https://fox11digital.com/news/PDFs/Garland-Joey-Nelson-probable-cause-document.pdf Jack Diemel said that his sons were going to Missouri to receive a $250,000 check for cattle...

@Whassup Thx for link to the PC affidavit. Helpful.
During Diemels' visit, how much did they expect to receive; how much did Nelson expect to pay? The following ASSumes (I hesitate to do <--- this, but...) ppl making stmts were truthful & accurate.

$ Diemels expected to receive. Two sources of MSM info:
1) MSM article w link to Prob Cause affidavit, prepared by LE: Jack Diemel said his sons were going to Missouri to receive a $250,000 check for cattle.
2) MSM TV interview w Foster* southeast Kansas dairy farmer who said (Nick?) Diemel said $250,000 was amt Diemels were owed and Nelson's check was returned as NSF.
^ Those two match.

$ Nelson expected to pay. One source of info:
1) Before Diemels' visit to MO farm, Nelson wrote a check which he sent to Diemels, so presumably $ amt. of check is what Nelson expected to pay for goods/services/repayment of loan/what-ev. What $ amt was shown on returned check? $250,000? Was there a notation in check's memo field?
^ Is amt on check $250,000, matching the $ amt Diemels expected?
2) By the time Diemels were present on farm, seems unlikely Nelson planned to pay any $ imo.

Nothing conclusive about whether ck was payment re cattle contract, but seems amt of NSF check tells us the $ amt parties agreed to. jmo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Foster said: "I said, 'Well did you ever get a check or did you get paid?' And he said, 'Oh, they sent me a check but it wasn’t any good.' Something like that. And he was going to go down and basically beat his ass or whatever, but still, a normal response to somebody who owes him over a quarter million dollars." bbm
^ https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Farmers-chilling-story-sheds-light-on-man-arrested-in-Diemel-case-526190251.html Aug 7

 

[Turnuptime]

The plastic tub found in the trailer sounds like a protein lick tub. There are always ways to reuse the empty tub around the farm, or it could have been covered again to look like it was unused. I saw comments in other discussions to the effect that wouldn't the purchaser have noticed the tub. When you purchase a used car, sometimes the seller has cleaned and detailed it and sometimes would get a bonus of spare change and candy wrappers.

An example of a protein tub: Tri-Parish Co-op & Wilkinson Farmers Co-op - Protein Tubs

 

[Teleah Smith]

Amt of $ Expected to Receive or to Pay. $250,000? To Pay for What?

$ Nelson expected to pay. One source of info:
1) Before Diemels' visit to MO farm, Nelson wrote a check which he sent to Diemels, so presumably $ amt. of check is what Nelson expected to pay for goods/services/repayment of loan/what-ev. What $ amt was shown on returned check? $250,000? Was there a notation in check's memo field?
^ Is amt on check $250,000, matching the $ amt Diemels expected?
2) By the time Diemels were present on farm, seems unlikely Nelson planned to pay any $ imo.

Why did they just not take him to court? They had previously taken a debtor to court...

"IV. On or about 9/23/15, Respondent purchased 205 head of cattle from Diemel' s Livestock, LLC and failed to pay the full purchase price ofthe livestock, valued at $78,575.004, in violation of the Act" https://www.gipsa.usda.gov/psp/enforce/complaints/D-17-0012.pdf

 

[al66pine]

The plastic tub found in the trailer sounds like a protein lick tub. There are always ways to reuse the empty tub around the farm, or it could have been covered again to look like it was unused. I saw comments in other discussions to the effect that wouldn't the purchaser have noticed the tub. When you purchase a used car, sometimes the seller has cleaned and detailed it and sometimes would get a bonus of spare change and candy wrappers.
An example of a protein tub: Tri-Parish Co-op & Wilkinson Farmers Co-op - Protein Tubs

@Turnuptime Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge so other non-agri. posters like me (actually agri-ignorant?) can better understand the subject. Helps us visualize the size & scale ('tub' was not a tub of chip dip or margarine. lol.). I'm adding a pic, showing that human skull & some other remains could fit in this smaller 60 lb protein lick tub. Most tubs at Tri-Parish link are 200+ lbs size.

Pix from Purina Introduces New 30% Protein High Energy Cattle Tub &raquo Mansfield Feed Mill

Also a good analogy re someone selling a newly detailed car w overlooked misc. still in it.
@Turnuptime Thx again.

 

[Songbird1973]

@Turnuptime Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge so other non-agri. posters like me (actually agri-ignorant?) can better understand the subject. Helps us visualize the size & scale ('tub' was not a tub of chip dip or margarine. lol.). I'm adding a pic, showing that human skull & some other remains could fit in this smaller 60 lb protein lick tub. Most tubs at Tri-Parish link are 200+ lbs size.

Pix from Purina Introduces New 30% Protein High Energy Cattle Tub &raquo Mansfield Feed Mill

Also a good analogy re someone selling a newly detailed car w overlooked misc. still in it.
@Turnuptime Thx again.

Farmers in southwest Nebraska (Hershey area) would call the 200 lb size a "lick tub." I've never seen that smaller size. They lay around by the hundreds. No one would think twice about some being left in a trailer.

I live in this area.

 

[ShannonHall]

Amt of $ Expected to Receive or to Pay. $250,000? To Pay for What?
@Whassup Thx for link to the PC affidavit. Helpful.
During Diemels' visit, how much did they expect to receive; how much did Nelson expect to pay? The following ASSumes (I hesitate to do <--- this, but...) ppl making stmts were truthful & accurate.

$ Diemels expected to receive. Two sources of MSM info:
1) MSM article w link to Prob Cause affidavit, prepared by LE: Jack Diemel said his sons were going to Missouri to receive a $250,000 check for cattle.
2) MSM TV interview w Foster* southeast Kansas dairy farmer who said (Nick?) Diemel said $250,000 was amt Diemels were owed and Nelson's check was returned as NSF.
^ Those two match.

$ Nelson expected to pay. One source of info:
1) Before Diemels' visit to MO farm, Nelson wrote a check which he sent to Diemels, so presumably $ amt. of check is what Nelson expected to pay for goods/services/repayment of loan/what-ev. What $ amt was shown on returned check? $250,000? Was there a notation in check's memo field?
^ Is amt on check $250,000, matching the $ amt Diemels expected?
2) By the time Diemels were present on farm, seems unlikely Nelson planned to pay any $ imo.

Nothing conclusive about whether ck was payment re cattle contract, but seems amt of NSF check tells us the $ amt parties agreed to. jmo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Foster said: "I said, 'Well did you ever get a check or did you get paid?' And he said, 'Oh, they sent me a check but it wasn’t any good.' Something like that. And he was going to go down and basically beat his ass or whatever, but still, a normal response to somebody who owes him over a quarter million dollars." bbm
^ https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Farmers-chilling-story-sheds-light-on-man-arrested-in-Diemel-case-526190251.html Aug 7

I have a hard time believing ND would open up about his business transactions, bounced checks and amounts owed to a virtual stranger, which to me is what DF in Kansas is. DF states that after his transactions with JN go south he reached out to people dealing with JN. IMO DF stirred a pot and shook some trees in order to let people know about his dealings with JN. As a former business owner, I wouldn't have disclosed so much information with someone I only talked to on the phone a couple of times.

 

[simlyme]

Let's look into this 250k that some are questioning.

On page 2 of the Probable cause affidavit. Nelson said,"Garland Nelson admitted he and the Diemels were in a business venture together where Nelson was paid to feed and then sell the cattle for Diemels."
According to this one https://www.gipsa.usda.gov/psp/enforce/complaints/D-17-0012.pdf

on page 2 of https://www.gipsa.usda.gov/psp/enforce/complaints/D-17-0012.pdf on the bottom it says" The true cost of the 205 head of cattle was $76,475.00 +$2,100 for delivery of the calves to Respondent' s location in Bennington, IN; however , Respondent had an outstanding balance with Diemel's. of $273,030 for prior dealings, bringing the total amount owed up to $352,505. Because Respondent paid $50,000 to Diemel's that same day (9/23/15), the "total due" on the invoice was listed as $301,505.00

So it looks like this Jones guy had at least 2 transactions with the Diemels, which is what has been said about Nelson and the Diemels.
When you sell someone calves and you pay them to feed them and the buyer of the calves agrees to feed them and then sell them for the seller of the calves,as Nelson and the Diemels agreed, your end results are full grown cows.
Surely there's an account and contract of this. I would not believe there's not one, as the Diemels must prove this and Nelson stated it,in the affidavit.
So then your finished product is worth a lot more than when that transaction first started. You then have full grown cows.
So between 2 transactions it is not unreasonable for the 250K . The Diemels also paid Nelson to feed the cows and who knows what else, if Nelson was not taking care of the calves.
The Diemels are owed for the loss of the 100 calves and the other transaction they had. Just as similar to what Jones owed the Diemels in the end result.
I think the Diemels gave people 1 too many chances and in the end they paid the ultimate price.

 

[ShannonHall]

And then above you say "As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

I have no idea what all you wrote meansand don't have any answers to all your questions.I base my knowledge about this case through what LE puts out . I made the comment about you saying "the possibility of a drug deal gone bad." I have never heard or read where anyone has mentioned this kind of theory about the Diemels. As far as TSF, my opinion is that she has a part in the Diemels being murdered. Otherwise I stand on my words, that the Diemels had nothing to do with any drug deal gone bad.

I believe while TSF may have been to Branson, she returned and aided JN in discarding the bodies. I believe she removed the trailer before LE started searching, and knew what was in the trailer, hoping that by the time it was discovered, quote "this will all just go away".