GUILTY MO - Nicholas, 35, & Justin Diemel, 24, brothers missing, Clinton County, 21 July 2019 *ARREST* #2

[LietKynes]

From whassup:
" Nov 22, 2019 NORTH PLATTE, Neb. (KNOP) - The sheriff's office of Caldwell County, Missouri, can now confirm it recovered the remains of both Diemel brothers, who disappeared while visiting a farm in Missouri earlier this year.
Nicholas Diemel's remains were recovered from a farm in Caldwell County, Missouri.
The remains of Justin Diemel were found in a livestock trailer sold to a rancher in Lincoln County, Nebraska.
The confirmations were made through dental records.
This is a developing story. This report will be updated.
Here is the link. Missouri sheriff confirms it's recovered remains of both Diemel brothers
------------------------------------------------------------------
@Whassup
I'm confused. I thought Caldwell Co, MO sheriff waaay back /early Aug. recovered material ---
---sufficient for a DNA ID, as belonging to both Nicholas AND Justin and
---enough for Prob Cause that they were dead. (but no dental records).

Now linked MSM article says -
--- Nicholas' remains were found in Caldwell (ok, maybe more than earlier announced).
--- Per link, "... dental records confirmed that the body found earlier this week in a trailer in Lincoln County, Nebraska belonged to Justin..."

I thought 'tub' (of whatever kind) held only a skull & a few bones. Now it's "body"?

Regardless I'm glad that (more) remains have been recovered, and LE & prosecution continues.

Agreed.
This case is all over the place.
I thought both men were burnt in 50 gal. steel drums.
Wouldn't the skulls be destroyed as well ?
And which is it, part of a skull, skull and jawbone, or the whole body ??
Not quizzing you, al66pine.
Thinking out loud.

 

[Steelslady]

Missouri sheriff confirms it's recovered remains of both Diemel brothers

Nicholas Diemel, Justin Diemel
By KNOP |

Posted: Fri 3:25 PM, Nov 22, 2019

NORTH PLATTE, Neb. (KNOP) - The sheriff's office of Caldwell County, Missouri, can now confirm it recovered the remains of both Diemel brothers, who disappeared while visiting a farm in Missouri earlier this year.

Nicholas Diemel's remains were recovered from a farm in Caldwell County, Missouri.

The remains of Justin Diemel were found in a livestock trailer sold to a rancher in Lincoln County, Nebraska.

The confirmations were made through dental records.

This is a developing story. This report will be updated.

Here is the link. Missouri sheriff confirms it's recovered remains of both Diemel brothers

Rest in peace, Nicholas and Justin.

So very sad and upsetting for their family and friends.

 

[Steelslady]

double post....

 

[Whassup]

Agreed.
This case is all over the place.
I thought both men were burnt in 50 gal. steel drums.
Wouldn't the skulls be destroyed as well ?
And which is it, part of a skull, skull and jawbone, or the whole body ??
Not quizzing you, al66pine.
Thinking out loud.

Google searched "how much heat to cremate a body." Here is the first reply. (All bold is original to the links and not added)

Cremation of a dead body is carried out at a temperature ranging between 1400 to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. The intense heat helps reduce the body to its basic elements and dried bone fragments. The process takes place in a cremation chamber, also known as a retort, of a crematory.

Here is the first link: How Is A Body Cremated? – Cremation Resource

In the linked article is the following information.

On an average, it takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body, thereby reducing it to 3-7 pounds of cremains. The cremation remains are usually pasty white in color.

Would a 55 gal steel drum last 1-3 hours at 1400 - 1800 degrees? And can you get diesel fuel that hot?

Even if it was not a full cremation, gives an idea of the heat and time necessary to pull this off.

Nothing in what we know answers the questions that have been raised today on this site.

 

[tacosandkayaking]

You voiced what I knew a lot of people would be thinking about TSF. That would be an easy conclusion to jump to. I just really do not think she was involved in the murders or the coverup. Reports say she was on a family vacation the weekend of he murder. I could be wrong. My role in this forum to this point has been to try to add balance to the discussion along with insights from my perspective. I have to allow for the fact that, since life is complicated, I may be wrong. We are all just theorizing at this point.

As to a drug deal gone bad, it sure looks possible. Severed heads and burned bodies is a signature of the Sinaloa cartel. As is the use of acid to dissolve bodies. (Thinking of the unknown liquid used besides diesel fuel) On the other hand, it could be JN trying to set it up to look that way. I am not sue he is that cunning. Maybe.

This find may be a real break in the case. It may also really complicate the investigation, depending on forensics.

Severing heads and burning bodies is also an efficient and effective way to dispose of bodies. I mean this guy had access to lots of equipment to chose from that most of us don't.

 

[tacosandkayaking]

Don't want to be argumentative, just precise. The person writing the news story said the FBI was not involved. Two paragraphs later was the actual quote from an FBI spokesperson. “I’m not aware of us being involved in the death investigation,” FBI Kansas City Branch Public Information Officer Bridget Patton said. Does leave some wiggle room about what she is aware of, whether the death investigation is up to local LE but not other aspects of the case, and how narrowly "us" is--whether she is speaking for the whole FBI or just the Kansas City Branch.

Given the testimony on Capitol Hill recently, it pays to parse carefully how things are stated.

Seriously, the drug angle is probably a long-shot and getting longer. Maybe I have seen too many docu-dramas about "real stories of the FBI" in which misleading tactics are used to draw out the criminals.

My mind is still open to every possibility until they are definitively ruled out. We will probably all have to wait until trial to get the full story. I just hope JN doesn't take a plea deal instead of going to trial and then change his story in prison leaving us all hanging.

IDK why anyone thinks it's odd that the FBI isn't involved. They generally handle cases involving kidnapping, terrorism, cyber crimes, civil rights and organized crime (among a few other types). The Diemel's deaths appear unrelated to any of these types of crimes. If any federal agency is involved, IMO it would be the OIG.

Drug cartels makes an interesting theory, but I'm not buying it. IMO there were definitely others very close to home involved in the coverup.

What We Investigate | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[Whassup]

Severing heads and burning bodies is also an efficient and effective way to dispose of bodies. I mean this guy had access to lots of equipment to chose from that most of us don't.

Not to argue but just what equipment do you know that he had access to that most of us don't?

A good knife or a corn knife is not specialized equipment.

I don't know any farmer that has a crematory in his barn. See my previous post and links to see what it takes to cremate a body.

If news reports are accurate, most of the bodies seem to be burnt / missing, yet enough of the skulls were intact to use dental records. And the personal effects of JD were burnt but not so badly that his debit card was not destroyed beyond reading.

JD's remains were in a tub in a trailer that supposedly belonged to TSF. Not only remains but readable ID. And she sold it with the tub in it. The auction guy did not see it but the Nebraska farmer found it.

As I read that last paragraphs I hear them in the voice of the narrator of "The Curse of Oak Island." Please nobody type in Knights Templar, buried treasure or Freemasons.

Seriously, things as we know them do not add up. Neat easy answers just don't seem to work on this one.

 

[Whassup]

IDK why anyone thinks it's odd that the FBI isn't involved. They generally handle cases involving kidnapping, terrorism, cyber crimes, civil rights and organized crime (among a few other types). The Diemel's deaths appear unrelated to any of these types of crimes. If any federal agency is involved, IMO it would be the OIG.

Drug cartels makes an interesting theory, but I'm not buying it. IMO there were definitely others very close to home involved in the coverup.

What We Investigate | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Whose home? JN's.

Or someone else.

 

[simlyme]

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article236539408.html
Article from Oct,23,2019
On Wednesday officials said the investigation included multiple agencies, including the FBI.

Let's just remember that we don't have to be told everything, and we won't be told everything.

 

[simlyme]

Google searched "how much heat to cremate a body." Here is the first reply. (All bold is original to the links and not added)

Cremation of a dead body is carried out at a temperature ranging between 1400 to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. The intense heat helps reduce the body to its basic elements and dried bone fragments. The process takes place in a cremation chamber, also known as a retort, of a crematory.

Here is the first link: How Is A Body Cremated? – Cremation Resource

In the linked article is the following information.

On an average, it takes about one to three hours to cremate a human body, thereby reducing it to 3-7 pounds of cremains. The cremation remains are usually pasty white in color.

Would a 55 gal steel drum last 1-3 hours at 1400 - 1800 degrees? And can you get diesel fuel that hot?

Even if it was not a full cremation, gives an idea of the heat and time necessary to pull this off.

Nothing in what we know answers the questions that have been raised today on this site.

Let's not confuse the burning of a body in a murder case with cremation.
So even tho if Nelson had a cremation container, it still would not be a cremation in the case as the Diemels.

There's no such thing as a partial cremation unless a family has chosen cremation for their loved one and perhaps some time later another part of that persons body is found and cremated.

What Is Cremation?

Cremation is a method of body disposal that serves as an alternative to traditional burial in a coffin or casket. Placed in a cremation container, the remains are incinerated in an industrial furnace (called a cremation chamber) and reduced to basic chemical compounds – gases, ashes and mineral fragments, which are called cremains.

Cremains pose no health risk and are generally returned to the deceased’s family who will either keep them in an urn or another special container, inter them at a memorial site or crematory, or disperse them during a special ceremony.

There does not seem to be incinerators large enough for disposal of cows.

https://www.clemson.edu/extension/camm/manuals/common_chapters/pch8_03.pdf PAGE 8-13 Incineration is a suitable method to dispose of small animals to prevent pollution and improve environmental quality. Many farms currently incinerate as the preferred method of dead animal disposal.

 

[simlyme]

Another news story more local, out of KCMO

Caldwell County Sheriff's Office: Remains found are those of 2 missing Wisconsin brothers

Garland Joey Nelson charged with two counts of first-degree murder

Updated: 6:50 PM CST Nov 22, 2019
KMBC 9 News Staff

Show Transcript

BRAYMER, Mo. —
Law enforcement officials in Caldwell County, Missouri, confirmed Friday that remains found at a Missouri farm and in Nebraska are those of two missing brothers from Wisconsin.

The Caldwell County Sheriff's Office said investigators found the remains of missing brothers Nick and Justin Diemel of Shawano, Wisconsin.

Advertisement
Related Content

• Remains of one of Diemel brothers from Wisconsin possibly found in Nebraska
• Garland Nelson to face new charges in missing Wisconsin brothers’ case
• Man accused of tampering with truck belonging to missing Wisconsin brothers pleads not guilty

Caldwell County Sheriff Jerry Galloway said Nick Diemel’s remains were recovered on a farm in rural Caldwell County, while Justin Diemel’s remains were recovered in a livestock trailer in Lincoln County, Nebraska.

"An examination of dental records confirmed both identifications," Galloway said.

Last month, Garland Joey Nelson was charged with two counts of first-degree murder, relating to missing brothers Nick and Justin Diemel. Nelson was also charged with two counts of abandonment of a corpse, tampering with physical evidence, unlawful possession of a firearm and armed criminal action.

The Lincoln County Sheriff's Office in Nebraska said it was contacted by a rancher in Hershey, who reported finding human remains in a stock trailer that he recently bought in Missouri.

"Deputies arrived and found a large plastic animal supplement tub full of dirt. The rancher advised he found the tub in the large stock trailer he just purchased. The rancher took the tub out of the trailer to spread the dirt in his driveway. Upon doing so he saw what he believed was human remains and other items in the tub," the Sheriff's Office said.

The Caldwell County Sheriff’s Office in Missouri was contacted after the remains were found.

Link Caldwell County Sheriff's Office: Remains found are those of 2 missing Wisconsin brothers

Confirms what we knew already knew about LE and MSM. LE only releases what information that is a) The least amount necessary to satisfy the public and b) What will not compromise their investigation / case. MSM has a hard time getting all of the information correct, even on local stories.

PC Affidavit said probable match on DNA for both brothers on the Braymer farm but did not mention dental records. Story from Nebraska LE said skull and jawbone. Without full LE report we cannot know for certain if there was more in Nebraska. Now it seems that we know that at least the skull of ND was on the farm and the skull 0f JD was in the tub. LE did not want public to know that they did not have all of the remains of both brothers? It is at least possible that they were burned separately and disposed of separately to reduce the amount of evidence on the farm or to confuse LE. They may have been incinerated so completely, or the burnt remains further made into smaller pieces, so that there was little left. It is also possible that there may be more remains somewhere else!

Questions

1. Unless desperate because of time, why dispose of remains on your own property and in a trailer that you were going to sell and would be traced back to you?
2. If the bodies were somehow ground or chopped after burning why leave the skulls so intact along with personal effects of JD so that they could be identified?
3. Why not dispose of blood stained clothing and especially the spent 30-30 round?
4. Is JD and/or TSF stupid or arrogant enough to think they could cover their tracks on the farm and dispose of the tub later without getting caught?
5. Is JD and/or TSF cunning enough to make this look like a frame job and then plead, "Would I really do this on my own farm and think that LE wouldn't find the evidence? I've been framed!"?
6. Did JN only have time to properly dispose of part of the evidence before LE arrived and TSF has tried to help in the coverup later?

We still have more questions than answers. But we also have more pieces to the puzzle than we did. Hopefully for all involved, the picture will become clear very soon and justice will be served.

On question 4 & 5 , did you mean Justin Diemel , or Nelson ? If you meant Garland "Joey"Joseph Nelson, that is why I write out Nelson, then we don't have confusion. Also if someone asks what the initial are we can state the correct name which is Garland Joseph Nelson, and they can do more searching.We can name the whole name of a suspect . Thought that would help some.

 

[Whassup]

On question 4 & 5 , did you mean Justin Diemel , or Nelson ? If you meant Garland "Joey"Joseph Nelson, that is why I write out Nelson, then we don't have confusion. Also if someone asks what the initial are we can state the correct name which is Garland Joseph Nelson, and they can do more searching.We can name the whole name of a suspect . Thought that would help some.

You are correct. My bad. I intended to write JN not JD.

 

[Whassup]

Let's not confuse the burning of a body in a murder case with cremation.
So even tho if Nelson had a cremation container, it still would not be a cremation in the case as the Diemels.

There's no such thing as a partial cremation unless a family has chosen cremation for their loved one and perhaps some time later another part of that persons body is found and cremated.

What Is Cremation?

Cremation is a method of body disposal that serves as an alternative to traditional burial in a coffin or casket. Placed in a cremation container, the remains are incinerated in an industrial furnace (called a cremation chamber) and reduced to basic chemical compounds – gases, ashes and mineral fragments, which are called cremains.

Cremains pose no health risk and are generally returned to the deceased’s family who will either keep them in an urn or another special container, inter them at a memorial site or crematory, or disperse them during a special ceremony.

There does not seem to be incinerators large enough for disposal of cows.

https://www.clemson.edu/extension/camm/manuals/common_chapters/pch8_03.pdf PAGE 8-13 Incineration is a suitable method to dispose of small animals to prevent pollution and improve environmental quality. Many farms currently incinerate as the preferred method of dead animal disposal.

Wasn't trying to say that they were cremated. I thought the article was informative about the amount of heat and time necessary to dispose of a body.

Obviously the Diemels were not cremated because they found at least some remains including a skull and jawbone that we know of in the tub from the trailer, enough teeth to identify ND, and enough partially degraded DNA make a probable match before they released the positive ID from dental records.

My only point was that it would have still taken a lot of heat and considerable time to burn them sufficiently, to match what we currently know. What we currently know about the state of the remains may / will probably change before this is over.

Nice catch on the October 23 article listing the FBI. I can't read the the linked article because the source want me to pay for online access.

Your conclusion is what I have said repeatedly but in other terms, that we are on a "need to know basis" and most things we don't need to know. We will only get what LE wants us to have and won't hinder their investigation.

 

[simlyme]

Wasn't trying to say that they were cremated. I thought the article was informative about the amount of heat and time necessary to dispose of a body.

Obviously the Diemels were not cremated because they found at least some remains including a skull and jawbone that we know of in the tub from the trailer, enough teeth to identify ND, and enough partially degraded DNA make a probable match before they released the positive ID from dental records.

My only point was that it would have still taken a lot of heat and considerable time to burn them sufficiently, to match what we currently know. What we currently know about the state of the remains may / will probably change before this is over.

Nice catch on the October 23 article listing the FBI. I can't read the the linked article because the source want me to pay for online access.

Your conclusion is what I have said repeatedly but in other terms, that we are on a "need to know basis" and most things we don't need to know. We will only get what LE wants us to have and won't hinder their investigation.

Here's one you can read without paying.The Latest: Employee: Brothers' were lured to their deaths
Galloway says multiple law enforcement agencies were involved in the months-long investigation, including the FBI and the U.S. Postal Service.

 

[al66pine]

Other LE Agencies?

IDK why anyone thinks it's odd that the FBI isn't involved. They generally handle cases involving kidnapping, terrorism, cyber crimes, civil rights and organized crime (among a few other types). The Diemel's deaths appear unrelated to any of these types of crimes. If any federal agency is involved, IMO it would be the OIG.
Drug cartels makes an interesting theory, but I'm not buying it. IMO there were definitely others very close to home involved in the coverup.

What We Investigate | Federal Bureau of Investigation

@taccosandkayaking bbm
FBI - agreeing w you, in that I do not see an obvious FBI investigation target.
OIG? {{{Edit Not sure sometimes I'm a bit dense. OIG of which fed agency?}}}
Other - IF drugs, and IDK anyone claims that to be relevant, maybe DEA?
jmo, could be wrong

 

[Whassup]

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article236539408.html
Article from Oct,23,2019

It doesn't say that they are currently involved, just that they were involved in the original investigation leading to the charges.

It is still unclear who is currently involved beyond Caldwell County Sheriff's office and Missouri Highway Patrol.

 

[CocoChanel]

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[Beaumont]

A couple things, Farmer Boy and some other manufacturers/suppliers do make Cow Cremators to handle large livestock, I believe 2,000lbs. I doubt J. Nelson realized that teeth had to be ground up due to not burning to ash like the body would. Really some bones would have to be ground too. It's a two part process for human cremation before the family gets the ashes. This is so sick to even think or talk about someone doing this to the brothers.

Next, I was really sick to hear the FBI wasn't involved in this for sure. That sheriff doesn't work well with others at all. He hates the media and anyone who has other ideas than his. Thankfully the Wisconsin folks came down here and the MO news teams have done a good job keeping it out front whenever the sheriff would give them something to talk about which wasn't often. Even the Amish man and Foster talking has helped. It will be the gruesome news stories that convicts GJN in my opinion. I obviously have No Faith in that Department under his leadership and for good reason.

I Pray Justice for the Diemels Prevails. Missouri Does Care A Lot.

 

[Whassup]

A couple things, Farmer Boy and some other manufacturers/suppliers do make Cow Cremators to handle large livestock, I believe 2,000lbs. I doubt J. Nelson realized that teeth had to be ground up due to not burning to ash like the body would. Really some bones would have to be ground too. It's a two part process for human cremation before the family gets the ashes. This is so sick to even think or talk about someone doing this to the brothers.

Next, I was really sick to hear the FBI wasn't involved in this for sure. That sheriff doesn't work well with others at all. He hates the media and anyone who has other ideas than his. Thankfully the Wisconsin folks came down here and the MO news teams have done a good job keeping it out front whenever the sheriff would give them something to talk about which wasn't often. Even the Amish man and Foster talking has helped. It will be the gruesome news stories that convicts GJN in my opinion. I obviously have No Faith in that Department under his leadership and for good reason.

I Pray Justice for the Diemels Prevails. Missouri Does Care A Lot.

That cow cremators are available is not the issue. Whether JN owned one is. Apparently not. It is at least implied that they were burned in the barrels which were later crushed.

It was not just teeth that were found in the tub but a skull and jawbone. Not likely to grind everything else and leave those intact and identifiable.

If the bodies were burnt so completely why were there personal effects left so intact that ND debit card could still be read.

All points to burning but not cremation. And that the remains were not somehow ground up after they burnt.

Read some earlier threads where @al66pine and I discussed the actual wording of the statement by the FBI spokesperson. Leaves room for the possibility that they are involved if you parse out what was actually said.

Don't know which sheriff you refer to. Clinton County was in lead early. Seems like Caldwell County is now. Rural departments always come under question about their judgement and abilities. Don't know if it is justified or not. But like you, I hope other agencies are still actively involved.

I pray justice for all involved, not just the Diemels.

 

[Whassup]

That cow cremators are available is not the issue. Whether JN owned one is. Apparently not. It is at least implied that they were burned in the barrels which were later crushed.

It was not just teeth that were found in the tub but a skull and jawbone. Not likely to grind everything else and leave those intact and identifiable.

If the bodies were burnt so completely why were there personal effects left so intact that ND debit card could still be read.

All points to burning but not cremation. And that the remains were not somehow ground up after they burnt.

Read some earlier threads where @al66pine and I discussed the actual wording of the statement by the FBI spokesperson. Leaves room for the possibility that they are involved if you parse out what was actually said.

Don't know which sheriff you refer to. Clinton County was in lead early. Seems like Caldwell County is now. Rural departments always come under question about their judgement and abilities. Don't know if it is justified or not. But like you, I hope other agencies are still actively involved.

I pray justice for all involved, not just the Diemels.

Also, I hope that it is not the gruesome news stories that lead to a conviction!!! That is not how the system is supposed to work. Justice is found in a court of law with evidence presented under oath and analyzed by a jury of one's peers--not in the court of public opinion. MSM news stories tend to be one sided and leave out other possibilities. They can also taint the jury pool. Keep an open mind until all the facts are known.