GUILTY MO - Nicholas, 35, & Justin Diemel, 24, brothers missing, Clinton County, 21 July 2019 *ARREST* #2
- Thread starter adjones826
- Start date
Simlyme and others I may have offended by using the term cremation. I apologize, I was just trying to put some civility on an uncivilized, horrific crime. They were burnt and crushed intentionally. Please accept my apologies.
This problem with the Caldwell county sheriff was predictable from the beginning. That was one of my first posts on this case. He Never should of been in any kind of leadership position on a case like this. You don't have to know him personally, That guy is too egotistical and doesn't work well with others as anyone can see just by the tv interviews. I've had my own professional experiences with him. He was offered teams of trained searchers on this case that work water, land, dogs, magnets, heat sensors, metal detectors, drones etc. He didn't want it. He left the Wisconsin guys sitting at their vehicles. It has to always be his way or nothing. How much time has gone by with nothing until the trailer and tub in Nebraska surfaced? Thankfully that was found, Not By Any Missouri LE like It should of been. I do not want to come across as all Missouri LE are incompetent. Unfortunately for all concerned with learning the truth here, he was involved at a high level and I truly hope they go after him personally for his lack of action and accepting trained volunteers in the search from the beginning. I believe with all my heart evidence would of been found very quickly.
The Diemel family and their friends have every right to be furious about how this case has been handled and the lack of communication with them. It's Inexcusable. I'm furious about it.
As far as a gun on that farm, No Way Will Anyone convince me that was unknown. I know of No Farms without at least a couple of rifles. It is necessary, but with JN's history, It Should of been at the top of his probation list. Everyone should of known he had access to it along with other residents of the home.
Will someone please pm me the other sites that Wassup is talking about. Thank You. I also want to say that I think that the members here have to be giving the Diemels some comfort in knowing WE DO CARE.
This problem with the Caldwell county sheriff was predictable from the beginning. That was one of my first posts on this case. He Never should of been in any kind of leadership position on a case like this. You don't have to know him personally, That guy is too egotistical and doesn't work well with others as anyone can see just by the tv interviews. I've had my own professional experiences with him. He was offered teams of trained searchers on this case that work water, land, dogs, magnets, heat sensors, metal detectors, drones etc. He didn't want it. He left the Wisconsin guys sitting at their vehicles. It has to always be his way or nothing. How much time has gone by with nothing until the trailer and tub in Nebraska surfaced? Thankfully that was found, Not By Any Missouri LE like It should of been. I do not want to come across as all Missouri LE are incompetent. Unfortunately for all concerned with learning the truth here, he was involved at a high level and I truly hope they go after him personally for his lack of action and accepting trained volunteers in the search from the beginning. I believe with all my heart evidence would of been found very quickly.
The Diemel family and their friends have every right to be furious about how this case has been handled and the lack of communication with them. It's Inexcusable. I'm furious about it.
As far as a gun on that farm, No Way Will Anyone convince me that was unknown. I know of No Farms without at least a couple of rifles. It is necessary, but with JN's history, It Should of been at the top of his probation list. Everyone should of known he had access to it along with other residents of the home.
Will someone please pm me the other sites that Wassup is talking about. Thank You. I also want to say that I think that the members here have to be giving the Diemels some comfort in knowing WE DO CARE.
No need to apologize , I think we came to an understanding on that.
I agree with you fully about Caldwell co sheriffs and I believe the Diemel family knows that by now and knew that early on. I hope the Diemel family takes it as far as legally allowed .
Why do people in such horrendous situations always have to do everyone elses job ???
As far as the guns or gun, nelson is a criminal, when a criminal wants a gun he gets a gun. He could have gotten a gun anyways.
The point is that his mother owned that farm and the crime was committed there and she knew about ALL of the finances. As far as I'm concerned she knew everything.
I don't know what other sites you're talking about that wassup mentioned.? What post number is it?
I believe in time justice will prevail, the Diemels are not dumb and will fight to get some type of justice, but, one will not be to get their boys back ,unfortunately!!
Family of slain Wisconsin brothers files wrongful death suit
By: Tod Palmer
The Diemel brothers subsequently were invited to Braymer, Missouri, to receive payment for the cattle a month later.
It was during a meeting with Nelson at the farm to receive that payment and discuss business that the Diemel brothers were killed, prompting a missing persons search, according to the lawsuit.
By: Tod Palmer
The Diemel brothers subsequently were invited to Braymer, Missouri, to receive payment for the cattle a month later.
It was during a meeting with Nelson at the farm to receive that payment and discuss business that the Diemel brothers were killed, prompting a missing persons search, according to the lawsuit.
^Love it. I hope they get every penny they are asking for.
I believe that I have included a link to every site that I have quoted or referred to.
I do not know the Caldwell County sheriff so I cannot comment on him or his department personally. I do know that in every county I have ever lived, there were those who had unsatisfactory contact with local law enforcement and others who only had positive to say about the same.
Beaumont implies a knowledge of the details of the investigation that I have not seen anywhere in print. At the press conference in which the charges were released, the sheriff noted many law enforcement agencies that cooperated in the search and initial investigation. It was reported in MSM that some from Wisconsin offered to aid in the search. "He was offered teams of trained searchers on this case that work water, land, dogs, magnets, heat sensors, metal detectors, drones etc. He didn't want it. He left the Wisconsin guys sitting at their vehicles." No LE allows family or friends to take part in a criminal investigation. Imagine how easy it would be for the defendant to claim that the searchers planted evidence tainting the case. As to the others mentioned, each would have to pass scrutiny for the same reason.
Only time will allow the details of the investigation to come to light. Many simply never will. It is an almost sure thing that mistakes were made. Probably no one will be completely satisfied with how the investigation was handled. IMO, using this case to grind a personal axe is not helpful.
Last edited:
@Whassup, A couple of the posts from you talking about other sites comments regarding the Diemel's and Nelson were post #455, #6 on your list and the first paragraph in your post #457. Sorry, I should of been more specific.
Please do not think or imply I have Any Personal Axe to Grind. I Don't At All. Time is of the essence for All involved in these types of situations, there isn't time for Egos or a Power Struggle.
I'm sure in missing person cases you've seen volunteer searchers. Usually there is at least one LEO per grid team. The teams I am referring to in this particular case do have a lot of personal equipment they bring including body cams, boat, drone and vehicle cams to document all movements as well as experience in working these cases. I would suspect that had the help been accepted/allowed there would have been an active LEO with each team even though everything would of been documented by A/V body cams and GPS.
In this part of the country,many times remains are not found until Spring Turkey Hunting Season or Mushroom Hunters find them. Where those boys were are lots of farmland, livestock farms (including pig lots), ponds, wells and lakes.
IMO ANYONE who volunteered to help with Anything, even plat and RR mapping or google earth, keeping batteries charged and fuel for on the ground searches should have been welcomed including the Wisconsin folks who understood this and came prepared to help.
Still Praying For Justice and Peace For All Concerned.
Beaumont
The reference in #455 was to a topic-related private Facebook page that I can't link to. The language used in the wishes for the future of Nelson's family was filled with profanities and cruel deaths. Honest feelings I am sure, but it is not in the best interests of anyone to fan the flames of hatred and wishes of violence.
I did not have a link for #457. Through the course of conversations I have learned that, once a warrant is served, law enforcement must keep a constant presence on the premises or apply for a new warrant. In addition they can only search what is specified on the original warrant without applying for a new one for additional property. This link speaks to that and other warrant related issues. Execution of a Search Warrant (I) (MP3) | FLETC
There is a difference between a missing persons case and a criminal investigation. In a simple missing person's case, the search coordinators often take trained and untrained volunteers to search for the person. We've all seen documentaries of searches for hikers lost in the woods or occupants of a capsized boat. This was different.
Although this was not publicly disclosed as a "death investigation" until Friday, it seems to have been treated as a criminal investigation with suspicion of foul play from the very beginning. Search warrants take proof of probable cause to be granted which takes time to insure that they are in proper order so that evidence found is not ruled inadmissible in court later. The timeline shows that the sheriff was notified by family of the brother's disappearance Sunday evening. The search warrant was served on Wednesday morning. There was a police presence around the property until the warrant was served, and on the property after serving until the search was finished. There were other properties searched as well.
I do not know the exact criteria LE uses to determine who is allowed on a crime scene during an investigation. I do know that it is different than a missing person's search. Credentialing, thoroughness, rules of evidence, proper supervision, etc. take precedence over number of boots on the ground. Just as a doctor does not treat his/her own family members, a lawyer does not represent family, or a firefighter allow a homeowner on their own property while they are fighting a fire, no LE agency will allow family of the perpetrator or victim access to a crime scene as long as it is under active investigation. People with an emotional attachment make emotional choices rather than rational ones.
R Chupp is reported as saying that he knew as soon as he heard that the brothers were missing that Nelson was responsible. If you are in charge of an investigation, that is the LAST person you want anywhere near the investigation.
LE having allowed a victim's family or associates access to a crime scene would be a defense attorney's dream come true. Any evidence found could be argued as inadmissible because of the possibility of it being planted. If admitted as evidence it would only take one juror with reasonable doubt about a key piece of evidence to bring an acquittal.
You continue to complain about egos and power struggles affecting the investigation. I have no doubt that there were "negotiations" about who would take lead in this investigation. I don't understand the ins and outs of who has jurisdiction in a case like this.
But you seem to imply that this was so time sensitive that the county sheriff should have given lead to an outside agency in this case and that that would have changed the outcome. If the brothers were tied up in a barn or on the back side of the back forty, the more searchers the better. If there was reason to suspect that they were already the victims of foul play, justice requires a more methodical approach. We would all have liked for the brothers to have been found alive. Reality is that the brothers were dead and the bodies disposed of before the sheriff ever got a call. It seems that the sheriff had good reason to suspect foul play from the beginning.
Far from being wrong, IMO, he was right to take the time to start a proper investigation before having a crime scene contaminated by outside sources. After the initial phase, the investigation was handled by a major crimes task force, again the proper thing to do. LE presence was maintained on the property to keep the warrant valid until the investigation was complete. Was it all done 100 percent correctly? NO! Somebody missed a tub of remains that were hidden somewhere and eventually ended up in a trailer in Nebraska. But was it done properly? It seems so.
After the on site investigation, without sufficient evidence to charge TSF, she and her family were allowed to try to return to some semblance of normalcy. She is innocent until proven guilty and she has not even been charged with a crime yet, much less convicted. She may be guilty of something. She may be guilty of the worst things imaginable. But we don't know. And until we do know--through the presentation of evidence rather than supposition, circumstances and emotion--she cannot be deprived of her rights just because we think she is guilty and such treatment seems "fair" to us.
I would want the same for you and me if a spouse was arrested for a crime that we had no part in. It would not be fair for our house and car to be seized, our personal business shut down, ourselves to be arrested and our lives ruined over something our spouse had done because people "believed that the spouse could not have done the crime without our knowledge and/or participation."
God help us if we ever come to "guilty until proven innocent." We fought 2 World Wars and a Cold War against nations that acted by that very principle.
The reference in #455 was to a topic-related private Facebook page that I can't link to. The language used in the wishes for the future of Nelson's family was filled with profanities and cruel deaths. Honest feelings I am sure, but it is not in the best interests of anyone to fan the flames of hatred and wishes of violence.
I did not have a link for #457. Through the course of conversations I have learned that, once a warrant is served, law enforcement must keep a constant presence on the premises or apply for a new warrant. In addition they can only search what is specified on the original warrant without applying for a new one for additional property. This link speaks to that and other warrant related issues. Execution of a Search Warrant (I) (MP3) | FLETC
There is a difference between a missing persons case and a criminal investigation. In a simple missing person's case, the search coordinators often take trained and untrained volunteers to search for the person. We've all seen documentaries of searches for hikers lost in the woods or occupants of a capsized boat. This was different.
Although this was not publicly disclosed as a "death investigation" until Friday, it seems to have been treated as a criminal investigation with suspicion of foul play from the very beginning. Search warrants take proof of probable cause to be granted which takes time to insure that they are in proper order so that evidence found is not ruled inadmissible in court later. The timeline shows that the sheriff was notified by family of the brother's disappearance Sunday evening. The search warrant was served on Wednesday morning. There was a police presence around the property until the warrant was served, and on the property after serving until the search was finished. There were other properties searched as well.
I do not know the exact criteria LE uses to determine who is allowed on a crime scene during an investigation. I do know that it is different than a missing person's search. Credentialing, thoroughness, rules of evidence, proper supervision, etc. take precedence over number of boots on the ground. Just as a doctor does not treat his/her own family members, a lawyer does not represent family, or a firefighter allow a homeowner on their own property while they are fighting a fire, no LE agency will allow family of the perpetrator or victim access to a crime scene as long as it is under active investigation. People with an emotional attachment make emotional choices rather than rational ones.
R Chupp is reported as saying that he knew as soon as he heard that the brothers were missing that Nelson was responsible. If you are in charge of an investigation, that is the LAST person you want anywhere near the investigation.
LE having allowed a victim's family or associates access to a crime scene would be a defense attorney's dream come true. Any evidence found could be argued as inadmissible because of the possibility of it being planted. If admitted as evidence it would only take one juror with reasonable doubt about a key piece of evidence to bring an acquittal.
You continue to complain about egos and power struggles affecting the investigation. I have no doubt that there were "negotiations" about who would take lead in this investigation. I don't understand the ins and outs of who has jurisdiction in a case like this.
But you seem to imply that this was so time sensitive that the county sheriff should have given lead to an outside agency in this case and that that would have changed the outcome. If the brothers were tied up in a barn or on the back side of the back forty, the more searchers the better. If there was reason to suspect that they were already the victims of foul play, justice requires a more methodical approach. We would all have liked for the brothers to have been found alive. Reality is that the brothers were dead and the bodies disposed of before the sheriff ever got a call. It seems that the sheriff had good reason to suspect foul play from the beginning.
Far from being wrong, IMO, he was right to take the time to start a proper investigation before having a crime scene contaminated by outside sources. After the initial phase, the investigation was handled by a major crimes task force, again the proper thing to do. LE presence was maintained on the property to keep the warrant valid until the investigation was complete. Was it all done 100 percent correctly? NO! Somebody missed a tub of remains that were hidden somewhere and eventually ended up in a trailer in Nebraska. But was it done properly? It seems so.
After the on site investigation, without sufficient evidence to charge TSF, she and her family were allowed to try to return to some semblance of normalcy. She is innocent until proven guilty and she has not even been charged with a crime yet, much less convicted. She may be guilty of something. She may be guilty of the worst things imaginable. But we don't know. And until we do know--through the presentation of evidence rather than supposition, circumstances and emotion--she cannot be deprived of her rights just because we think she is guilty and such treatment seems "fair" to us.
I would want the same for you and me if a spouse was arrested for a crime that we had no part in. It would not be fair for our house and car to be seized, our personal business shut down, ourselves to be arrested and our lives ruined over something our spouse had done because people "believed that the spouse could not have done the crime without our knowledge and/or participation."
God help us if we ever come to "guilty until proven innocent." We fought 2 World Wars and a Cold War against nations that acted by that very principle.
I'm sorry, I totally disagree with your thinking about the mother. This is a business she owns and her son worked for her. She knew all the financials.She even said they would pay out when they got paid by people that owe them. What the heck? A good business doesn't operate like that.
Like I've said before the farm should have been shut down until EVERYTHING and EVERYONE on that farm was investigated.
She should have been investigated on everything about that farm.
There was a lot of money involved and that should have been a heads up to all investigators from the start,day 1.
She knew all and it will come out. The picture is clear. This is my opinion.
I am not saying that she is not guilty of something. Maybe even the worst things imaginable. What I am saying is that she has not been charged with anything. Yet.
And being a bad business person is not necessarily a crime. Businesses go bankrupt through poor management all the time.
I agree that this is a business that needs investigation. I have said before that she, as owner, is responsible for everything having to do with the business, including any of Nelson's dealings on behalf of J4S that she was unaware of.
What I am saying is that the investigation has to follow the rule of law. In the US we do not treat someone, even under great suspicion, as guilty until proven so.
You assume that, just because the family was not evicted from their own personal property and the business was not shut down until TSF could prove her innocence though not officially charged with a crime, that she and J4S was or is not under investigation. Are you sure they are not being investigated?
I hope that whatever she knew does come out. And I hope that she gets whatever punishment is appropriate for any crime she committed. It appears that there are probably several.
What you are asking for is not justice. It is vigilantism. It is treating a party as guilty before a trial. It is a financial lynching based on suspicion. It is antithetical to our system of justice.
Yes, you are entitled to you opinion. I am grateful that we are ruled, not by the opinion of a majority at any one time, but by the rule of law that protects us all.
BBM
You'd be surprised at the number of businesses that operate this way - as soon as money stops coming in, there is no money to pay bills.
That's why there is a decent sized financial industry around buying business accounts receivable (at a reduced amount) providing the business cash now rather than the uncertainty of if or when the money is collected.
Thanks for putting into words what I was thinking.
Unfortunately small farmers are usually so cash strapped that they cannot take advantage of even that opportunity.
I agree that this case bears special scrutiny because of the relationship of the business to the murders. I also agree that, TSF should be held accountable for any wrongdoing connected to J4S Corp. If she is somehow a part of the murders or the coverup she needs to be charged and convicted of those crimes as well.
But my constant contention is that LE must act based on law rather than appearances and emotion. It is ok to hold strong opinions. But opinions are not facts and are usually based on incomplete and often one-sided information.
Remember, "What the government can do to thee it can do to me."
If I advocate for the government to violate another's rights without due process, I have no right to complain when they violate mine.
Oh, believe me I'm not surprised at anything, that's the reason I think the way I do.
Thousands and thousands of cases in the US are not investigated by following the rule of law. That is fact.
I and some of my family members have gone through some investigations , or should I say ,treated as a criminal instead of victims. It happens all the time.
I speak about myself through facts not opinions.
I have my opinions about this case and that is what WS recommends when we state something that hasn't been put out to the media. Is to make sure we let it be known that it's an opinion.As I have.
You are stating above what I'm asking for as a fact.and you have done this to me several times. I know what justice is and it surely doesn't apply to a lot of cases.
There's nothing you can say to me or tell me what I'm doing, that will sway me in one way or the other .
We will simply have to agree to disagree, for now. I will let you have the last word.
Trudie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2018
- Messages
- 11,497
- Reaction score
- 66,810
Wrongful death lawsuit filed against man accused of murdering Wisconsin brothers
And there we go, she allowed him to sell cattle EVEN though he was on probation and WASN'T suppose to take on NEW DEBT!! YES! I'm angry, she should be sitting right next to him,forever!!!
The lawsuit claims that shortly after Nelson was released from prison on previous charges of illegally selling cattle, Feil created J4s Farm Enterprises Inc. and allowed Nelson to continue selling cattle — even though he was on probation and wasn’t supposed to take on new debt.
Court documents allege that Feil and the company were negligent and that they “should have known that allowing Nelson to return to the cattle business created an unreasonable risk of harm to others, including decedents.”
Nick and Justin Diemel (Courtesy of Lisa Diemel)
The suit also says “Nelson intended to kill decedents if they came to Missouri to collect the payment for the cattle” and that Feil and the company concealed Nelson’s prior conviction of cattle fraud.
I was finally able to catch up on this tragic case. Heartbreaking.
Trudie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2018
- Messages
- 11,497
- Reaction score
- 66,810
I wonder how the families are doing?
It must be incredibly hard for them to operate commercial farms & deal with all this. Hopefully they have kind neighbors, willing to lend a hand.
I’m on a lot of large cattle & horse farms, the guys I’m with always have their guns. We never know what we might encounter. Moo
It must be incredibly hard for them to operate commercial farms & deal with all this. Hopefully they have kind neighbors, willing to lend a hand.
I’m on a lot of large cattle & horse farms, the guys I’m with always have their guns. We never know what we might encounter. Moo
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 5,358
- Reaction score
- 32,902
Thank you for sharing. Good summary. From the article:
“[SBM]
Online court information indicates that upon motion of Garland Joseph Nelson, his case was continued to February 6th for a preliminary hearing setting or waiver.
Nelson also faces felony charges of two counts each of abandonment of a corpse, tampering with evidence in a felony prosecution, and armed criminal action as well as one count each of first degree tampering with a motor vehicle and unlawful possession of a firearm. He is being held without bond.
[SBM]
Family members of the Diemels filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Nelson, Nelson’s mother Tomme Feil, and J4S Enterprises, the Feil-owned farm company that employed Nelson.“
Similar threads
Online statistics
- Members online
- 89
- Guests online
- 2,780
- Total visitors
- 2,869