Molested with the handle?

[UKGuy]

I agree with your thinking that the flashlight and the ransom note are linked, but that the flashlight is not linked to the act of killing.

And, yes, no fingerprints, no connection to who handled it. An Intruder who thought along the lines you mentioned would have, in my opinion, taken the flashlight with him.

BOESP,
I agree, an intruder would have taken the flashlight with him, and if we can work that one out, why not the stager, that was my point with the other allegedly missing items e.g. why take those but not the flashlight?

Also if the flashlight was simply placed in a drawer who would be any the wiser?

It was probably used as an aid to writing the ransom note then wiped clean as a precautionary measure?

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
I agree, an intruder would have taken the flashlight with him, and if we can work that one out, why not the stager, that was my point with the other allegedly missing items e.g. why take those but not the flashlight?

Also if the flashlight was simply placed in a drawer who would be any the wiser?

It was probably used as an aid to writing the ransom note then wiped clean as a precautionary measure?

I agree with you on this too. If the three implements (pad, felt-tip marker, and flashlight) were indeed used at the same time, then there was a reason the pad and pen were replaced yet the flashlight was not.

Of course some believe the note was written before the Ramseys came home and was later placed on the spiral staircase. However, that would still not explain why the pad and pen were put back in their normal place yet the Intruder decided to leave the flashlight out on the counter. The house photos show the kitchen/dining areas being surround by a lot of glass windows. As Ames and JMO discussed, somebody seems to have wanted to account for any lights a neighbor may have seen in the kitchen.

An Intruder who was careful enough replace the pad and pen then wipe down the flashlight and batteries wouldn't be careless enough to leave the flashlight behind in the first place. He'd just take the light back with him the same way he brought it in. I can't see any reason to wipe down the batteries anyway unless you didn't want the cops to know the light belonged to the Ramseys. The battery wiping is right out of some crime novel scene and makes me laugh every time I read it.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree with you on this too. If the three implements (pad, felt-tip marker, and flashlight) were indeed used at the same time, then there was a reason the pad and pen were replaced yet the flashlight was not.

Of course some believe the note was written before the Ramseys came home and was later placed on the spiral staircase. However, that would still not explain why the pad and pen were put back in their normal place yet the Intruder decided to leave the flashlight out on the counter. The house photos show the kitchen/dining areas being surround by a lot of glass windows. As Ames and JMO discussed, somebody seems to have wanted to account for any lights a neighbor may have seen in the kitchen.

An Intruder who was careful enough replace the pad and pen then wipe down the flashlight and batteries wouldn't be careless enough to leave the flashlight behind in the first place. He'd just take the light back with him the same way he brought it in. I can't see any reason to wipe down the batteries anyway unless you didn't want the cops to know the light belonged to the Ramseys. The battery wiping is right out of some crime novel scene and makes me laugh every time I read it.

BOESP,

The battery wiping is right out of some crime novel scene and makes me laugh every time I read it.

Yes seems a bit extreme, but what if it was neither Patsy's or John's fingerprints that were being wiped but those of JonBenet's?

 

[JMO8778]

good thought,UK.maybe she got up,used it to find Patsy,was sent back to bed,and a struggle ensued there.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,


Yes seems a bit extreme, but what if it was neither Patsy's or John's fingerprints that were being wiped but those of JonBenet's?

I don't understand where you're going with that. It is my understanding, based on what I've read :dance:, that neither John or Patsy believed JonBenet would go downstairs during the night on her own. I don't think she'd go downstairs with an Intruder either unless the Intruder was Santa, a grandparent, or a brother or sister. (And no I don't believe Santa Bill or Janet killed JonBenet.)

And why would JonBenet's fingerprints be on the batteries? I seriously doubt she could put them in a Maglite.

What am I missing about JonBenet and the flashlight?

 

[UKGuy]

good thought,UK.maybe she got up,used it to find Patsy,was sent back to bed,and a struggle ensued there.

JMO8778,
Yes, something along those lines, or she placed her hand on it at some point during her assault.

My other thought was Burke's fingerprints and JonBenet's because they were sharing a bed?

 

[JMO8778]

Yes, she was vague; she said she wasn't loyal to any brand and used whatever free samples sister Pam sent for her to use (my paraphrasing). Of course in DOI (if I remember correctly) she also mentions how godforsaken Boulder was because when she moved there her favorite lipstick wasn't even available in that one-horse town (again, my paraphrasing but that's pretty much what she said -- I don't have a copy of DOI to check for a quotation).\

P.S. Maybe it was Nedra who mentioned the lack of good cosmetics in Boulder and how Patsy couldn't even find her favorite lipstick.

rofl! well,it was funny the way you chose to say it,whatever way it was said.the only thing I can recall rightoffhand is JR saying (in ST's book),that they'd moved back to Atlanta,one reason being,because Patsy couldn't find lipstick in Boulder ! Which is hysterically funny in itself;I've sat here at my computer and ordered things from overseas,and it's not like most of the major cosmetic brands don't have websites where you can order what you want,and Nordstrom's and Neiman Marcus also carry the high-end brands you can order online.I'm sure there are many more.She probably could have even placed an order from many Atlanta Dept. stores if she'd wanted to.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't understand where you're going with that. It is my understanding, based on what I've read :dance:, that neither John or Patsy believed JonBenet would go downstairs during the night on her own. I don't think she'd go downstairs with an Intruder either unless the Intruder was Santa, a grandparent, or a brother or sister. (And no I don't believe Santa Bill or Janet killed JonBenet.)

And why would JonBenet's fingerprints be on the batteries? I seriously doubt she could put them in a Maglite.

What am I missing about JonBenet and the flashlight?

BOESP,
If neither Patsy's or John's prints have to be wiped from the flashlight, and placing it in a drawer is sufficient for it become lost beneath the radar, then which other person's fingerprints would raise an eyebrow if discovered on the flashlight and link it directly to JonBenet's death?

 

[BOESP]

good thought,UK.maybe she got up,used it to find Patsy,was sent back to bed,and a struggle ensued there.

Any ideas on why JonBenet would be up at that time of night looking for Patsy? Wouldn't she believe her mother to be upstairs in the bed? In my experience, little girls of that age would usually yell for a parent to come to them instead of the child going to the parent but I'm sure there are exceptions, especially at Christmas.

I can understand JonBenet having an accident in the dark but that wouldn't explain the need to stage a ligature and it wouldn't explain why Patsy/John didn't call 911. I think they'd surely take JonBenet to the emergency room if she managed to fall on her own.

If it was a struggle as you suggested, do you think Patsy could have shoved JonBenet into a doorknob or kitchen cabinet corner or something similar? I have considered maybe Patsy and JonBenet were in the basement together and whatever happened occurred in the basement but that still doesn't explain leaving the flashlight out on the kitchen counter instead of replacing it just as the pen and pad were replaced.

TIA for any answers or amplification on JonBenet and the flashlight.

 

[UKGuy]

rofl! well,it was funny the way you chose to say it,whatever way it was said.the only thing I can recall rightoffhand is JR saying (in ST's book),that they'd moved back to Atlanta,one reason being,because Patsy couldn't find lipstick in Boulder ! Which is hysterically funny in itself;I've sat here at my computer and ordered things from overseas,and it's not like most of the major cosmetic brands don't have websites where you can order what you want,and Nordstrom's and Neiman Marcus also carry the high-end brands you can order online.I'm sure there are many more.She probably could have even placed an order from many Atlanta Dept. stores if she'd wanted to.

JMO8778,
that lipstick anecdote sounds false to me, Patsy could order from Bloomingdales anytime and have next day delivery, I believe she had an account there?

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Yes, something along those lines, or she placed her hand on it at some point during her assault.

My other thought was Burke's fingerprints and JonBenet's because they were sharing a bed?

could be,BR does appear to know something,even though he may have blocked it out.However I do think JB was killed in either her room or her bathroom.

 

[BOESP]

JMO8778,
Yes, something along those lines, or she placed her hand on it at some point during her assault.

My other thought was Burke's fingerprints and JonBenet's because they were sharing a bed?

Now I might buy the idea that JonBenet wet her bed and used the flashlight to go to her brother's room to sleep since Patsy stated JonBenet sometimes slept in Burke's room, especially if the her own bed was wet.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
that lipstick anecdote sounds false to me, Patsy could order from Bloomingdales anytime and have next day delivery, I believe she had an account there?

it does sound false,but I don't think it was something ST made up.JR even had the nerve to claim PW drugged JB,so it seems he was just looking for any stupid excuse as to why they'd moved back to Atlanta.
BTW I never once heard either of them say they'd moved back so they could be near JB's grave.What was even weirder was that neither of them made an issue out of just leaving her there and going back to Boulder.You would think they would have been heartbroken to do so.

 

[BOESP]

rofl! well,it was funny the way you chose to say it,whatever way it was said.the only thing I can recall rightoffhand is JR saying (in ST's book),that they'd moved back to Atlanta,one reason being,because Patsy couldn't find lipstick in Boulder ! Which is hysterically funny in itself;I've sat here at my computer and ordered things from overseas,and it's not like most of the major cosmetic brands don't have websites where you can order what you want,and Nordstrom's and Neiman Marcus also carry the high-end brands you can order online.I'm sure there are many more.She probably could have even placed an order from many Atlanta Dept. stores if she'd wanted to.

(bold above) Thanks for finding that. Patsy made a counterpoint in DOI about the lipstick, if I remember correctly. It is funny isn't it.

 

[UKGuy]

Now I might buy the idea that JonBenet wet her bed and used the flashlight to go to her brother's room to sleep since Patsy stated JonBenet sometimes slept in Burke's room, especially if the her own bed was wet.

BOESP,
Sure something along those lines, or she used the flashlight to go to another bedroom, or to return from it in the dark?

This behaviour may have been a regular occurrence lets say when Patsy was sleeping in the guest room?

That is the flashlight may have been left in one of the bedrooms but belatedly removed and wiped clean?

 

[JMO8778]

Any ideas on why JonBenet would be up at that time of night looking for Patsy? Wouldn't she believe her mother to be upstairs in the bed? In my experience, little girls of that age would usually yell for a parent to come to them instead of the child going to the parent but I'm sure there are exceptions, especially at Christmas.

I don't know,unless she'd soiled herself and needed some help.

I can understand JonBenet having an accident in the dark but that wouldn't explain the need to stage a ligature and it wouldn't explain why Patsy/John didn't call 911. I think they'd surely take JonBenet to the emergency room if she managed to fall on her own.

no,I don't think she fell or anything else accidental...I do think Patsy got mad at her for some reason,and grabbed her collar..twisting it and strangling her,leaving the abrasions and thumb print on her neck.I think she was wearing the red shirt,the one Patsy cried about when she saw it in the photo.She'd originally said she'd put her to bed in that one,and a turtleneck would be more apt to cause those injuries on her neck,IMO.
From there, I think the head injury occured.

If it was a struggle as you suggested, do you think Patsy could have shoved JonBenet into a doorknob or kitchen cabinet corner or something similar? I have considered maybe Patsy and JonBenet were in the basement together and whatever happened occurred in the basement but that still doesn't explain leaving the flashlight out on the kitchen counter instead of replacing it just as the pen and pad were replaced.

could be,and I've wondered why she had lint and dust on her feet,if she wasn't in the basement.perhaps something started there,Patsy perhaps was wrapping gifts and JB came down...a scream was heard coming from the basement.

 

[JMO8778]

(bold above) Thanks for finding that. Patsy made a counterpoint in DOI about the lipstick, if I remember correctly. It is funny isn't it.

the funniest thing was when Patsy,pretending to be the good southern woman in DOI,made a comment about wearing white after labor day,and said that 'no decent southern woman would be caught dead in white after labor day ! Didn't everybody know that?!'
LOL!! now seriously,I've lived here all my life...those are very olden times rules...I don't know anyone who still follows them nowadays.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
If neither Patsy's or John's prints have to be wiped from the flashlight, and placing it in a drawer is sufficient for it become lost beneath the radar, then which other person's fingerprints would raise an eyebrow if discovered on the flashlight and link it directly to JonBenet's death?

I truly have no idea whose prints would raise an eyebrow because the prints from any household member would not have seemed strange had the flashlight been found in the drawer in it's usual place.

If the police had proof a flashlight was used for some aspect of the crime I can see the need to find a flashlight. Otherwise, a flashlight is innocuous since most homes have one and most of those will have prints on them from family members.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
Sure something along those lines, or she used the flashlight to go to another bedroom, or to return from it in the dark?

This behaviour may have been a regular occurrence lets say when Patsy was sleeping in the guest room?

That is the flashlight may have been left in one of the bedrooms but belatedly removed and wiped clean?

Anything is possible I suppose but I don't see anything suggesting JonBenet was up walking through the house on her own with a flashlight. I could see this as more likely if Patsy was, indeed, still sleeping in the guest bedroom but I don't know of any evidence suggesting she continued sleeping there after her cancer treatment.

 

[DeeDee249]

Didn't intend to make a joke of that awful event, but it certainly drives the point home, doesn't it?