Mr. Clean v. The State and The Tabloids

[sissi]

It is interesting ,if one reads the deposition given by Steve Thomas,how little we believe to be "truth" actually is.
Toth may very well be right on this,as a lot of our information is taken from Steve's book,and he admittedly says,OFTEN,"I assumed","I was told by...who was told by ....who heard it from.....". It's a long,however,very TELLING ,depo..a must read!!
You can find it either by googling..steve thomas deposition..or going directly to "A Candy Rose".
JMO IMO

 

[tipper]

I agree. ST isn't nearly so adamant and sure of himself when he's under oath.

 

[Imon128]

I believe Steve played it VERY smart during any deposition. I've read so much on this case, and was very pleased that Steve didn't play into certain people's hands. Vivé Steve!!!!

 

[Jayelles]

OTOH, it's amazing how belittling interrogation under deposition can actually be.

It's like the interviewer asks you what day you walked to the store and you reply Tuesday. The Interviewer then asks you how you know it was Tuesday and you say you just do. He asks for proof and you cannot prove it. You know you walked to the store on Tuesday, but that Interviewer is going to make you look very silly by the end of the interview - because you cannot prove something.

We would be unable to function as a race if we didn't occasionally rely on what other people say. Steve Thomas had a busy job - he even worked right through Christmas without taking a break. He was part of a team and it wasn't his job to check every lead himself. Lin Wood didn't bring on the other members of the team to corroborate (or not) Thomas' testimony - therefore it was left hanging that EVERYTHING Thomas did was questionable .

At the end of the day, I am convinced that this is what Lin Wood wanted to achieve.

 

[Imon128]

Good points, Jayelles! I'm glad Steve didn't play right into LW's hand. Steve sees the big picture, IMO. He and FW are probably waiting for the right time to let go of what they know. I bet Linny went home with some frustration, too, LOL.

 

[Barbara]

Whatever pineapple they found in the fridge and put out or not, they don't deny having tried to provide snacks for everyone there.
Personally, I think they were idiots but then just about all the BPD were that day.

The advocates found the pineapple in the fridge and put it out? Perhaps the advocates fed it to her after the fact? That makes about as much sense as the thrill theory. None at all

Yes, I will agree that the BPD et al blundered that day. They made the error of treating the parents as victims of a terrible kidnapping.

Lucky for the Ramseys! They're probably still snickering

 

[sissi]

When is lying appropriate? Was it acceptable for Steve to state lies in the book,or in the deposition? IMO,lying never is acceptable,but if I had to choose between the two arenas,I would think lying under oath is criminal.
His book,"hear the truth from a lead detective",started with that lie,while disbursed throughout the pages were elements of interest concerning the politics at play,most else were his "guesses and ego at work"...a truly fictional account and very misleading.

JMO

 

[Toth]

Steve sees the big picture.

Yeah, one that he created in his own mind. Thats what the deposition revealed.

 

[Imon128]

Steve exposed the GOB's of Boulder. Good for him. If Steve had pictures in his mind, I seriously doubt they were the nightmare that confronted him when he began to investigate JonBenet's murder. I like how Steve has handled things. I don't necessarily agree with him on WDI, but I'm happy with that, too. Steve has done very much for this case and if only I could have helped him in his darkest hours battling those GOB's, you can bet I'd have been there. Something tells me that Steve will never give up on this case, sans his resignation to the City of Boulder.

 

[Ivy]

sissi, since when is stating one's theory considered lying? ST interpreted the evidence and developed a theory, but he didn't lie about the facts of the case.

OTOH, the entire premise of the Ramseys' book is based on a lie...the lie that neither they nor Burke were involved in JonBenet's death.

 

[BlueCrab]

And just how on earth did they test the substance that they had accidentally discarded?

It wasn't discarded. The pineapple was frozen and sent out for analyis.

JMO

 

[Toth]

It wasn't discarded. The pineapple was frozen and sent out for analyis.

I was referring to the material from the corpse.
As to the pineapple in the home being sent for genetic analysis: do you really believe that? Do you think Dole Pineapple Company likes variety?

 

[sissi]

It was? And she even ate the rind,wow!
BTW,it has been dismissed by some ,that bits could linger within the digestion system while allowing other food to process through. Refer to the deposition,and research the author of that quote. Amazing how little we know!
Who emptied the dishwasher,whose prints were on that bowl....Patsy..LHP..didn't it almost have to be one or the other? Do victims advocates use rubber gloves or do they "screw up"the crime scene?
Was there anything consistent with patsy's jacket other than a fiber of red acryllic? her jacket was red/black/gray...were there any fibers in jonbenet's underwear other than unsourced blue and brown? Did Steve bother to tell us there was a crinkled note from Bill McReynold's in Jonbenet's small room trashcan? Let's HOPE Keenan moves on with this investigation,it seems too much has been deemed unimportant by the "powers involved in Boulder".

http://www.christmas-decorations-gifts-store.com/store/PPF/parameters/58_147/more_info.asp

surprise..santa suits..christmas stockings..many many decorations..acryllic!
IMO

 

[Toth]

Once the BPD "solved" the case in the first few hours, a great deal of otherwise valuable information was ignored. Remember: "Lucy", the young girl attacked in a large home in a similar neighborhood was not turned up by the BPD. Gary Oliva, a known pedophile who frequented the nearby Youth Ministry Hall was not turned up by the BPD. Even Gary Oliva's friend who called the BPD about the "I've hurt a little kid" phone call felt he was being ignored.

 

[Ivy]

Toth, are you suggesting that Oliva killed JonBenet? His DNA doesn't match the so-called "foreign" DNA entered into the FBI database, which you seem to believe came from her killer.

 

[Maxi]

If Thomas meant "right down to the rind" literally, my guess is that some of the rind sticks to the fruit when pineapple is cut up.

I think Toth was using Oliva as an example of the lack of thoroughness of the BPD, not actually meaning Oliva was still a good suspect. But I don't agree with Toth that the cops thought they'd "solved" the crime in the first few hours. I think they were highly suspicious of the Ramseys after the body was found, as any cop would naturally be under the circumstances. But they were pretty quick to question the Hoffman-Pughs and to take evidence from their home.

I bet there were far more people questioned as suspects in JBR's murder than in the average murder case. The police, or at least some of them, may have felt what they were doing was just pro forma, but they did it nonetheless. Anyway, seeing as they were stymied in their efforts to interrogate the Ramseys, it gave them something to do.

 

[Barbara]

Anyway, seeing as they were stymied in their efforts to interrogate the Ramseys, it gave them something to do.

AND..a reason to wonder WHY they were stymied by the Ramseys, when nobody else seemed to take issue with the interrogations, samples of DNA, handwriting, etc. AND without attorneys

 

[why_nutt]

Once the BPD "solved" the case in the first few hours, a great deal of otherwise valuable information was ignored. Remember: "Lucy", the young girl attacked in a large home in a similar neighborhood was not turned up by the BPD. Gary Oliva, a known pedophile who frequented the nearby Youth Ministry Hall was not turned up by the BPD. Even Gary Oliva's friend who called the BPD about the "I've hurt a little kid" phone call felt he was being ignored.

The Lucy lead, and Helgoth, and Gary Oliva in particular, were not leads turned up by Lou Smit either, who was hired by Alex Hunter specifically for that job. Smit was able to follow a pedophile lead to California, but ignored Oliva in his own backyard? Either this demonstrates Smit's incompetence, or demonstrates the difficulty those leads took to be generated. And to preempt the claim, which has been made in the past, that Smit's job was just a desk job and he had no hands-on responsibility to check leads out but was just supposed to pass them on to Hunter, I call your attention to the fact that Smit personally got on a plane and flew out to North Carolina to interview John Brewer Eustace, and he personally got on the phone and called California police to investigate the California lead, so he had the ability if he had the desire.

 

[tipper]

, I call your attention to the fact that Smit personally got on a plane and flew out to North Carolina to interview John Brewer Eustace, and he personally got on the phone and called California police to investigate the California lead, so he had the ability if he had the desire.

I thought it was Thomas and Gosage who interviewed Eustace. Did Smit go back later?

 

[sissi]

and.............Thomas...he wrote about it in his book.No one ever said Smit,this is news!
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