• #14,721
What would be the reason for the FBI/LE to be at AG”s home two to three times removing items and taking pictures inside the house if they’re not involved?
It was deputies from the Sheriff Dept that were there on Friday night. Not FBI. As for why they would be there? Because they still have no clue where NG is and they are leaving no options off the table. If they didn't and they find/arrest/charge a perp, a defense attorney would have fun with them not looking at all angles. JMO

It should be noted that the only thing we saw them leave with was 1 brown paper bag, and that doesn't even mean it was evidence, it could have been their own garbage that they made sure to clean up and remove.
 
  • #14,722
Almost unimaginable that TMZ is inserting itself into this horror. This "reporting" could have tragic consequences for the victims (Nancy and her family). Completely unethical in my very strong opinion.
To be fair, the ransom letter inserted TMZ into the equation.
 
  • #14,723
Having said that it would definitely be a red flag if someone under investigation was using TOR browser at the time the ransom note was received.
Yup, I totally agree with this, and I think it's a key point.

If the messages were sent using TOR (unconfirmed, just speaking in hypotheticals and opinion here), and LE was simply starting from that fact, with no particular person of interest, it's going to be a real slog to go backward through that and find the source. However, if there is already a person or persons who they think might be involved, checking if that person has been using TOR (or some VPN service, or another method of hiding) is much more straightforward.
 
  • #14,724
Thank you! That explains a lot!
It would have eliminated confusion had the portion of the doc referenced in the post been included.
Sorry, I was in a rush!
 
  • #14,725
  • #14,726
Just as an aside, BTC wallet addresses can be generated, and regenerated (changed) for the same account especially if the people's who's wallet the ransom going to, is directing the funds to a personal Ledger wallet (flashdrive) and NOT an online exchange. So the BTC address demand could have changed at any time, and nobody knows but the Guthrie family. js/moo

eta.. so the BTC wallet address given in the note, might not be the same now, thus, still empty.
 
  • #14,727
Agreed and the timing lines up perfectly if the church friend attended the Modern Service at 10:45 a.m. The service lasted approximately 60 minutes ending around 11:45 a.m.

LE says the family began looking for Nancy at 11:56 a.m.
I think LE knows that time to the minute because that is the time the friend contacted the family.
I’m thinking it would have had to be the earlier service. I thought the church call occurred at approximately 11am? I’m imagining after several calls from AG to NG gone unanswered, AG headed over to her mom’s to check on her. It’s my understanding that AG arrived at NG‘s at approximately 11:56 and then called 911 at 12:03.
 
  • #14,728
This feels like a hoax. Adult kidnappings are rare for the most part. When is the last time we heard about an adult or child being kidnapped for ransom?

Here are two I can recall and Wikipedia link:
Patty Hearst
Lindbergh baby


sometimes something has never happened before and then it does
 
  • #14,729
If the deadline passes and she's not returned safely, I fear she's gone.
This thread might have 50,000 posts weeks from now with zero new clues to her disappearance. Frustrating and incredibly sad.
 
  • #14,730
I started to listen to this, but realized it’s almost an hour long. Did the FBI Agent explain why he doesn’t believe the family is involved? TIA
The FBI agent said it's likely someone who had worked on the house/in the house and knew what she had. Most people are very kind to workers, offering a cold drink, or bathroom use. Gives them a chance to case the house while the homeowner is unsuspecting. They went to rob her, and she woke up and that's when the original plan went sideways. He thinks it was a moronic split decision to take her and hatch the kidnapping plan. They didn't want to leave a witness, but maybe weren't prepared to murder her.

As far as the AG and SIL he said (starting at 23:00m approx). He said the focus on her house has to do with gathering evidence (digital info) about help AG hired for Nancy, all the electronics would be on Annie's stuff because she would have been the appointment maker since she's been doing this years and years. LE would view their house as almost an extension of Nancy's house because they were helping her, and why they were gathering info/evidence from there. He also said most people who are accused "lawyer up" and shut up. Elizabeth Smart's dad was a suspect, they look at and rule out the closest to the victim, and then move to the next ring of connection. Deep dive on Tomasso, he's a long time 6th grade teacher in the sciences, no criminal record and he said, "If they were hard up on money there would be a hell of a lot easier ways to get it, like robbing a bank than to do this. If you were really trying to get money from your 84 year old mom? Just wait a couple of years." The family doesn't fit the profile, he said.
 
  • #14,731
That whole message is off.

"We received your message and we understand," Guthrie said in the brief video posted to Instagram. "We beg you now to return our mother to us so we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and we will pay."

Why send a message that you're going to pay instead of just paying? Why refer to your mother as "this"? This is very valuable to us. What is "this"? It's distancing language, which is a little bizarre.

I think "this" refers to the return of their mother. It's a very sad message. To me, it implies that they understand that NG is dead and are willing to pay to get her body back. But it also may be odd, especially if they don't know whether they're talking to the actual kidnappers or to some scammer...

JMO
 
  • #14,732
Yup, I totally agree with this, and I think it's a key point.

If the messages were sent using TOR (unconfirmed, just speaking in hypotheticals and opinion here), and LE was simply starting from that fact, with no particular person of interest, it's going to be a real slog to go backward through that and find the source. However, if there is already a person or persons who they think might be involved, checking if that person has been using TOR (or some VPN service, or another method of hiding) is much more straightforward.
I do think they have managed to reveal Tor identity in the past, but a seemingly impossible task that perhaps AI can assist in cracking?
 
  • #14,733
The FBI agent said it's likely someone who had worked on the house/in the house and knew what she had. Most people are very kind to workers, offering a cold drink, or bathroom use. Gives them a chance to case the house while the homeowner is unsuspecting. They went to rob her, and she woke up and that's when the original plan went sideways. He thinks it was a moronic split decision to take her and hatch the kidnapping plan. They didn't want to leave a witness, but maybe weren't prepared to murder her.

As far as the AG and SIL he said (starting at 23:00m approx). He said the focus on her house has to do with gathering evidence (digital info) about help AG hired for Nancy, all the electronics would be on Annie's stuff because she would have been the appointment maker since she's been doing this years and years. He also said most people who are accused "lawyer up" and shut up. Elizabeth Smart's dad was a suspect, they look at and rule out the closest, then rule out. Deep dive on Tomasso, he's a long time 6th grade teacher in the sciences, no criminal record and he said, "If they were hard up on money there would be a hell of a lot easier ways to get it, like robbing a bank than to do this". The family doesn't fit the profile, he said.
They definitely don't fit the profile of something premeditated.

I'll say no more....
MY OWN SPECULATION ONLY.
 
  • #14,734
It was deputies from the Sheriff Dept that were there on Friday night. Not FBI. As for why they would be there? Because they still have no clue where NG is and they are leaving no options off the table. If they didn't and they find/arrest/charge a perp, a defense attorney would have fun with them not looking at all angles. JMO

It should be noted that the only thing we saw them leave with was 1 brown paper bag, and that doesn't even mean it was evidence, it could have been their own garbage that they made sure to clean up and remove.

Yeah. If he's not involved, I'm assuming they're still trying to rule him out and determine whether anything could've happened to Nancy in their home. If something did happen to Nancy in their home, I'm assuming they would've figured it out. Luminol etc.

If SIL is involved, I'm shocked that they still haven't been able to pin him down after a week+ of investigating him (if AB was correct.) Kidnapping, potentially murdering and hiding your own MIL in a short window of time and you do it so seamlessly 3 separate investigative bodies can't easily prove it? An accomplice wouldn't appear out of thin air and be untraceable, I assume there would be some digital or otherwise indication if he was planning something with someone.

It is possible they're still investigating him, but it would seem unusual to take this long if he was involved. But who knows.
 
  • #14,735
What would be the reason for the FBI/LE to be at AG”s home two to three times removing items and taking pictures inside the house if they’re not involved?
It was said on news this morning that they are starting from the beginning and rechecking everything. Sorry no link so this is MOO
 
  • #14,736
These articles state that St Andrews Presbyterian Church is the one NG attended. Do you have reason to believe she attended CFC?
https://www.cnn.com/2026/02/07/us/savannah-guthrie-nancy-faith-religion

Nancy Guthrie's church asks congregation to pray for missing 84-year-old

(If she attended both churches, that might explain some of the discrepancies about the call. But I haven't seen the CFC mentioned as a place she attended.)

JMO

I see I was incorrect about which church she attended. I knew it was Presbyterian and I seen Catalina foothills so I thought this was the one. Thanks for the clarification and I will delete my other post.
 
  • #14,737
The second letter could've provided other instructions or another account altogether ("we understand" and "we will pay"), but with the information we have it is not a good sign to see that account still empty.

JMO.
My thoughts, as well. The second letter was sent to just ONE station. Are the kidnappers monitoring the media, especially TMZ?

This would require FBI to start as ground zero tracing the account.

Moo …
 
  • #14,738
The FBI agent said it's likely someone who had worked on the house/in the house and knew what she had. Most people are very kind to workers, offering a cold drink, or bathroom use. Gives them a chance to case the house while the homeowner is unsuspecting. They went to rob her, and she woke up and that's when the original plan went sideways. He thinks it was a moronic split decision to take her and hatch the kidnapping plan. They didn't want to leave a witness, but maybe weren't prepared to murder her.

As far as the AG and SIL he said (starting at 23:00m approx). He said the focus on her house has to do with gathering evidence (digital info) about help AG hired for Nancy, all the electronics would be on Annie's stuff because she would have been the appointment maker since she's been doing this years and years. He also said most people who are accused "lawyer up" and shut up. Elizabeth Smart's dad was a suspect, they look at and rule out the closest, then rule out. Deep dive on Tomasso, he's a long time 6th grade teacher in the sciences, no criminal record and he said, "If they were hard up on money there would be a hell of a lot easier ways to get it, like robbing a bank than to do this". The family doesn't fit the profile, he said.
Sorry, not buying this. They're not initiating ruling out fam on Day 9 IMO. Any digital info for hiring contractors etc. would have been on AG phone and asked for by Day 2 IMO.

3 hours and 3 men in the garage at night...

If it were a botched robbery turned kidnapping, they likely would have let her out somewhere the next day, especially after they realized she was SG's mom.

And in your scenario, do you think this contractor also sent the RN or that is a random third party or ?



MOO
 
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  • #14,739
I think contact could mean a phone call but I think it is interesting that the complaint says contacted and notified. Why not just say called and notified?
Maybe the call never happened? Saying contacted/notified could be in person, email, text and by phone, but it seems it’s purposely worded vaguely. MOO
 
  • #14,740
DBM
 
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