• #42,441
I've heard the same about the bedsheets being missing, but have never seen any confirmation. It might be rumour.

If bedding was missing, where was the DNA that was supposedly on the bed found?
 
  • #42,442
@DailyPlanetoid WOW that is really something to digest! Very creepy connections indeed!
 
  • #42,443
Ha, well, I didn't think we'd be going back to the idea of Lantana Man/Porch Guy being a female again, but here we are, and you know what....from what you've written above, it practically makes sense.

Weird padded clothing in a hot desert environment, could be trying to hide body shape.

Eyes, there was definitely something going on there. Very heavy eyebrows and eyelashes. Maybe mascara?

And a gun hung by the crotch would be fine for a woman, it wouldn't get in the way of anything 'down there'.

I never really bought the idea it was a woman, but you've made me see how it is possible.
Oh I should add to the list we are compiling of facts supporting this idea of Lantana Man being a female: The bulky double gloves as well as the clothing layers. And SG in her videos at times appearing to speak and appeal to someone who knows about the crime and has empathy and kindness wired in. Which would be a female.
 
  • #42,444
Even compressed the shoulders and arm proportions look male to me.
Could layers of clothing on a female give this appearance?
 
  • #42,445
First time I have seen the close up picture of his face.

Oh I should add to the list we are compiling of facts supporting this idea of Lantana Man being a female: The bulky double gloves as well as the clothing layers. And SG in her videos at times appearing to speak and appeal to someone who knows about the crime and has empathy and kindness wired in. Which would be a female.
I guess I just believe that police sketch artist extraordinaire Lois Gibson would have known if a female was a possibility.
 
  • #42,446
I guess I just believe that police sketch artist extraordinaire Lois Gibson would have known if a female was a possibility.
And the FBI who refer to the perp as a male
 
  • #42,447
Yes, I think there's a reason the FBI describes the porch masked man as a male of average build, 5 feet 9-10 inches in height.
Well then the female theory sounds like a non starter. A couple of us were just playing around with the idea. It explained some of the facts.
 
  • #42,448
Don't see any camo pants just what looks to be a camo field coat or rip stop jacket.

I'm sure you know this already being an Army guy/gal, but bases are like their own cities within cities. They carry many of the same characteristics of cities like violent crime (if less proportionate) and serious mental illness (again, less proportionate). More importantly, it's oft-difficult for FBI or state/local authorities to align/coordinate with a military base due to its unique legal processes/law enforcement/jurisdiction/protocols, etc.

Was just saying I hope they are considering it. Although lantana does seem a little chubbers for active duty military. 😂

JMO.
Seems lower probability that an active duty military guy would suddenly go after an older female civilian. There would most likely be some sort of criminal history with this guy, and he would have been discharged for cause before he got to this point.

But it is possible we are looking at ex-military who would have had some training in conducting operations, maybe this is why Lantana man was so nonchalant. I agree, it should be considered.
 
  • #42,449
BBM - it was still low 40s as a low temp in the Catalina Foothills around that date though. Pants and a jacket would be normal. (Arizonans would think 40 is chilly AF!) Arizonans will wear hoodies at 70 degrees. Brrr! 😂
Why would someone from AZ wear all those layers if it is cold? Why not just wear warmer pants and jacket?

Perhaps they don't own warm clothing so they have to layer thin clothing on top of each other in AZ??

I guess we are looking at someone who is local or from a warmer climate. People from the midwest or north would not wear this outfit if it was 70 degrees outside. And they would not add all those layers, they would just put on a warmer jacket and pants.
 
  • #42,450
I'm not sure if K9s were brought in IMMEDIATELY but there was at least one (TMZ - Border Patrol K9) brought in by border patrol after ransom note #1 was received. Their dogs are often cross trained in multiple different "fields" of scent detection.

My girl specifically is trained for live tracking, so the sooner she can get on a scent the better. K9s trained for search and rescue not only work on the trail, they also can find objects with the scent on it which often helps confirm you are getting somewhere. My girl doesn't focus heavily/too long on "dropped" items so you've got a real quick window with her to note it and flag someone to get to it. The science of scent is incredibly fascinating (to me at least) but based on wind patterns and where a scent can "pool" (settling into crevices/dips/brushy areas/etc) you can get an idea of the direction often. If the wind is insane it complicates things. Other weather can enhance/lessen the scent. Thanks to where we live, my girl has trained in crawfish ponds and a foot or two of water, so it can really depend on the surfaces the dog has trained on, as well as the age of the track. Sooner a dog hits the ground running, the better obviously.

My 2nd K9 is training for HRD (Human Remains Detection). He's an idiot mutt and is insanely high energy which is what you want in a dog to cut loose to make a body recovery. These dogs often work a specifically outlined area and they usually run the perimeter and slowly circle in to "clear" an area. These k9s aren't looking for anything but the scent of HUMAN decomposition. Not dead animals, not rotting food, human decomposition only. I have seen dogs in boats locate bodies under water from the gases that come up out of the water, I've watched a Malinois damn near climb a tree to get to training remains located 12-15 feet up off the ground in the tree branches.

Like I mentioned above, before I started rambling about k9s (SORRRRRYYYY Y'ALL) a lot of military and LE handled dogs are cross trained. Our organization chooses not to cross train because we've found that our bloodhounds actually get pretty depressed for several days after making a body recovery. German shepherds, Malinois, Dutch Shepards don't get bothered as much because they are motivated by a different reward, which is why you see more of these dogs in military & LE. Less dogs to house/feed/train. But a bloodhound will always be the superior tracker ;)

To go back to the point of NG's case, not only could/would tracking dogs have tracked for NG, they also could pick up a scent off anything a perp dropped/touched/walked through. As long as they've got a starting scent, dogs will go. It's on the handler to decipher their signals. My girl gets really upset when she loses the scent (ex: scent took off in a car) and it's obvious she's lost it. She also does a "proximity alert" when she is right on top of an abundance of scent and she can't quite pinpoint where she wants to go because the scent is so strong and overwhelming. I've watched her look at her "find" straight on but she waits on her nose to confirm the person she is staring at is the one she's looking for. Just because my k9 isn't trained for HRD doesn't mean she doesn't sometimes make a recovery and not a "rescue". You just never know.

At this point with NG if we see dogs again I would expect to see them in a very specific location that is NOT NGs home. Whether they would be looking for suspects, a body (eek), or evidence, at this point they wouldn't be combing through anywhere other than a place they had good reason to believe one of those things would be & it would look pretty different than what an initial k9 search/track would look like.

I am so so sorry this got so long. I've either had too much coffee, not enough sleep, not enough adderall or not enough coffee. Only time will tell.
Please do not apologize, I was asking questions and you were giving me very informative answers.

All I can saw is WOW. What an amazing skill set in dog and handler. I wish you had been sent to help the Guthries or someone with your talent.

You are doing something special and important, and I send you and your dog light and love. I hope you chime in if we see dogs on the premises in the future, what you think it means, etc.
 
  • #42,451
I agree, it especially solves vehicle issues. Restaurant employment has a high tolerance for different types of people so the perp would be a sore thumb with some other sore thumbs (at least at first). At least in my experience.
bbm
My thinking. 👍
 
  • #42,452
I guess I just believe that police sketch artist extraordinaire Lois Gibson would have known if a female was a possibility.
LG has a moustache. It is a male! We can take LE's word on at least that. Please.
 
  • #42,453
Has any one thought about the possibility that Latana Man is someone with a show business background?

Some here have felt there was something odd and off about his appearance and clothing choices. It is like he is wearing a Walmart crime costume. Presenting as what he thought a criminal should look like. Maybe something seen from TV or movies.

Do we see what looks like alteration to his appearance with make up or something else under the masks? Someone familiar with stage make up perhaps?

All the masks and layers of clothing. Could be hiding other costumes and disguises? Peel off an outer layer and he looks like a maintenance man or delivery guy. Peel off another layer and we are looking at nurse, doctor, police uniform.

And we know that SG is in show business and NG was involved with some of her TV specials. There had to be Hollywood production types involved?

IDK, just brainstorming and throwing out an idea. Please feel free to tear it apart.
 
  • #42,454
Has any one thought about the possibility that Latana Man is someone with a show business background?

Some here have felt there was something odd and off about his appearance and clothing choices. It is like he is wearing a Walmart crime costume. Presenting as what he thought a criminal should look like. Maybe something seen from TV or movies.

Do we see what looks like alteration to his appearance with make up or something else under the masks? Someone familiar with stage make up perhaps?

All the masks and layers of clothing. Could be hiding other costumes and disguises? Peel off an outer layer and he looks like a maintenance man or delivery guy. Peel off another layer and we are looking at nurse, doctor, police uniform.

And we know that SG is in show business and NG was involved with some of her TV specials. There had to be Hollywood production types involved?

IDK, just brainstorming and throwing out an idea. Please feel free to tear it apart.
I dont want to tear it apart. I just cant grab the concept of it. I think it is simpler. The perp's outfit just speaks to him being an unsophisticated criminal. IMO. I think the possible theory by FBI profiler Jim Clemente is a good one whereby it is a male who is obsessed with SG and reaching her via her mother.
 
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  • #42,455
I dont want to tear it apart. I just dont really understand it and I think it is simpler. The perp's outfit just speaks to him being an unsophisticated criminal. IMO. I think the possible theory by FBI profiler Jim Clemente is a good one whereby it is a male who is obsessed with SG and reaching her via her mother.
Yes of course I agree, another explanation is a first time or young person who is copying what he sees from TV about what a criminal looks like. I myself stated this idea early on.

However we may have to accept this is no longer an accurate picture.

All the layers, masks, perhaps make up, indicate someone who gave the outfit a lot of thought, and took care to put it all together. And it was so successful
that despite some close up views of him, his identity has not be revealed. He has not been apprehended despite the full power of the FBI and 400 agents working on the case. This suggests the abductor is someone with some skill and/or experience. It cannot be all luck.

I am trained as a researcher/clinician. In research you make your ideas and theories public for the express purpose of being critiqued and criticized. This is how you build a better theory. And the earlier the better so you don't invest time and energy in a theory with no legs.

Yes of course, simple is good. In science it is called parsimony. The most simple theory that explains all the data and evidence is the best and most high probability theory. Once you start going off on tangents and intricate ideas, you may be going astray.

Yes we could be looking at a mentally ill person, obsessed with SG in some way. But not acutely psychotic or he could not have pulled off a successful crime like this.
 
  • #42,456
I guess I just believe that police sketch artist extraordinaire Lois Gibson would have known if a female was a possibility.
When you are building a theory, you try to stick to facts and evidence. And not let secondary sources influence you too much or at all.

But I hear you, if all the experts, including the FBI, are convinced of something contrary to one of my ideas, I have to consider it as likely lower probability.

I am not married to any idea. I just want to know the truth.
 
  • #42,457
Way back on Feb 18, a member posted the FBI-provided photos with "enhanced contrast" and was asking about an item the masked figure appeared to be carrying in his right hand. To me, that item almost looked like a closed umbrella with a handle that stuck out the side of the shaft at the end (with the person's gloved hand grasping it). There are what look like dark knobs around the close perimeter of the "umbrella" that seemed to me like they'd correspond to "knobs" at the end of an umbrella's spokes.

However, I also noticed that it appeared to me that the masked figure was carrying something in his left gloved hand. I thought it looked like some kind of formed metal extended shape (almost like an extended hood that might be installed over floodlights or over something else - and I commented so at the time). However, upon further examination it almost looks like it could be some piece of equipment or a tool and in context, I wonder if it is some kind of break-in tool (whether for doors or a safe).

I have attached a photo of my drawing atop the "enhanced contrast" photo and have also included notes as to what I think I am seeing. I've also included a cropped section to show you the same without my drawing atop it.

Following are the original quoted posts from the member (@scandiamerican ) who provided the "enhanced contrast" photos:




Curious whether others are seeing this too.
It could be a roll up stretcher like this one. MOO
 

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  • #42,458
Yes of course I agree, another explanation is a first time or young person who is copying what he sees from TV about what a criminal looks like. I myself stated this idea early on.

However we may have to accept this is no longer an accurate picture.

All the layers, masks, perhaps make up, indicate someone who gave the outfit a lot of thought, and took care to put it all together. And it was so successful
that despite some close up views of him, his identity has not be revealed. He has not been apprehended despite the full power of the FBI and 400 agents working on the case. This suggests the abductor is someone with some skill and/or experience. It cannot be all luck.

I am trained as a researcher/clinician. In research you make your ideas and theories public for the express purpose of being critiqued and criticized. This is how you build a better theory. And the earlier the better so you don't invest time and energy in a theory with no legs.

Yes of course, simple is good. In science it is called parsimony. The most simple theory that explains all the data and evidence is the best and most high probability theory. Once you start going off on tangents and intricate ideas, you may be going astray.

Yes we could be looking at a mentally ill person, obsessed with SG in some way. But not acutely psychotic or he could not have pulled off a successful crime like this.
'Once you start going off on tangents and intricate ideas, you may be going astray.' I think a lot of this has been happening, but because there is a 'vacuum' regarding actual facts, peoples minds are 'running riot', on overdrive.
 
  • #42,459
Guys, just report the post, don’t quote and reply. Mods have to clean up those posts now too.
 
  • #42,460
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