New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

[shadowblaster86]

this is horrible.

 

[Legally Bland]

BBM

It didn't work in this case.

So the mention of imposing gun restrictions in the future is applied to crimes retrospectively?

How does that work?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

So the mention of imposing gun restrictions in the future is applied to crimes retrospectively?

How does that work?

Sorry but I can't debate you on gun control/restrictions on this forum.

Tricia frowns on that.

 

[otto]

this is horrible.

Is that a reaction to the article that ZaZara just posted, or to the whole big picture of a lunatic with a gun killing 50 praying people? If it's about the article, keep in mind that the author, Javier Lesaca, is a Doctor in History and a visiting researcher at Columbia University. It is opinion, presumably well-researched, and the link in blue (turn terror into a multimedia spectacle) goes to an article about someone who used video to pledge allegiance to a radical group - not to do what Tarrant did. That alone suggest that perhaps there is a little stretching of information to make a point.

"From 2014 to 2019, the terrorist group Islamic State has broadcast a total of 243 videos through open social networks showing the murder of more than a thousand people, more than 90% of them Muslim and Arab from Iraq, Syria, Egypt , Libya and Yemen. Nearly 50% of these murders have been issued emulating the scenes of violence of well-known series, films and action videogames, in an attempt to turn terror into a multimedia spectacle capable of seducing new and young audiences in a global world, resentful and willing to avenge an internal enemy for internal frustrations."​

Análisis | La estética del odio

 

[zencompass]

"Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said families of the fallen won't have to worry about the full cost of funeral expenses while mourning their loved ones, regardless of their immigration status."

"In addition to funeral costs, tax-free "survivor grants" are available for the partner, children and dependents of the person who died. ACC will also provide ongoing support to children of the deceased, as well as provide a portion of income lost from the death."

New Zealand helping to pay Christchurch shooting victims' funerals, regardless of immigration status

 

[JudgeJudi]

Senior figures in the New Zealand Muslim community are aiming to hold one national memorial burial for the 50 victims of the Christchurch mosque shootings later this week. However, it will ultimately be a decision made by the families.

Christchurch mosque shootings: Brenton Tarrant to represent himself in court

3 of the 9 Pakistani victims will be returned to Pakistan.

 

[JudgeJudi]

An 18-year-old accused of sharing a live-stream of the Christchurch mosque mass shooting has been refused bail.

The teen faces two charges: one of sharing the live-stream and a second for posting a photograph of one of the mosques attacked with the message "target acquired" along with other chat messages "inciting extreme violence".

He appeared in Christchurch District Court today and was granted name suppression. He is due back in court next month.

Police have said he was not involved in the shootings.

The maximum sentence for each of the charges against the 18-year-old is 14 years' jail.

Christchurch mosque shootings: Brenton Tarrant to represent himself in court

There has been a further update to the above:

The charge relating to distributing an objectionable publication is dated March 15, the day of the mosque shootings, court documents show.

The second charge, of making an objectionable publication, alleges the offence took place between March 8 – 15.

The teen was initially charged with publishing insulting material with intent to excite hostility or ill will against a group of persons on the basis of race, ethnicity, or national origins. That charge was withdrawn today and replaced by the two new charges.

 

[mrjitty]

I think there is a big danger with people applying a US filter to NZ gun ownership without knowing the first thing about our local gun culture and regulations.

First point, NZ had traditionally high gun ownership. Well into my Dads time, boys still did cadets at school and owning a weapon for hunting was common. Me and most of my friends learned to shoot as kids in the 80s. This has slowly changed. But we never had guns for self defence and hand guns were illegal. The way the US carries on is weird to us kiwis. So we never had much gun crime to begin with.

As mentioned already, like Australia the NZ government passed extremely strict licensing and other regulations as a reaction to mass shootings years ago.

The main difference is that NZ did not ban semi-autos. Instead you need a special license for them. This license is hard to get, and these days you must separately store the gun, bolt and ammo in 3 separate lockers. (the requirement to lock up the bolt is a newish administrative requirement from CHC police apparently). The police can come round and inspect your setup any time. They do ring up to check on things.

Bottom line, the results were similar to Australia. High licensing standards enforced high quality ownership via strong barriers to entry. In general gun owners support the rules because it keeps out most of the idiots. In NZ no one I know equates guns to freedom. It has always been a licensed activity and not a right.

Of course gun regs don't help in the edge case of a terrorist

Personally I do not support a semi-auto ban as this issue was long debated in my family in an Aus vs NZ way. The argument is that banning semi-autos didn't really address the issue.

However we now had someone murder 50 people with multiple semi-autos in NZ and Australia did not. Ironically or perhaps significantly the perp came from Aus to NZ to do this,

So I can see the point of the Ardern government that the gun owner side of the argument is now more difficult to maintain. This is no longer about regulation of a gun owning community but about protecting the public on the extremes.

I hope this provides some clarity as to facts on the ground in NZ.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

A personal trainer working as an independent contractor working from a gym(s) would make a good profession for an off again, on again low budget world traveler as one can "un plug" from the employment to travel, run out of money, then easily "plug back in" upon return home.

As for the apparent double life, some extremists can be very good at concealing their intentions. For example, Mohammad Attah and the other 9-11 hijacker pilots raised no suspicions in either Germany or the United States from their interactions with non Muslims, non observant Muslims etc., western culture etc.

Rather, they did not follow Islamic dress, attend mosques regularly, maintain rigorous prayer times, seek out halal food, or have 'red flag' material in their rooms.

With the exception of systematically not eating in restaraunts serving alcohol (dropped once they arrived in the US) and attending a store front type mosque with a conservative reputation- also dropped upon arrival in the US, the 9-11 terrorists maintained a near perfect impression of moderately religious or even secularized Muslims.

Yes, I do wonder if the police will find evidence of a double life, or really any life at all. We don't know much about him other than he loved to travel and he traveled extensively and thoroughly addicted to the internet. We don't know anything about his job or even if he had one recently.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The accused gunman plans to represent himself in court - raising concerns he could attempt to turn a trial into a platform for his beliefs.

The duty lawyer who represented him in court confirmed he was no longer acting for him. He said the accused appeared to be lucid and was not mentally unstable – other than the extreme views that he held.

"I suspect that he won't shy away from publicity, and that will probably be the way he runs the trial. The job of the trial judge will be to deal with that. But it's not a place for any views to be put forward. It's simply there to determine innocence or guilt. The court is not going to be very sympathetic to him if he wants to use the trial to express his own views."

Christchurch mosque shootings: Brenton Tarrant to represent himself in court

I think we can pretty much guarantee this will be just another internet show to entertain his online buddies. I gather New Zealand gives him the right to represent himself in court. I gather New Zealsnd doesn't require a defense lawyer when trying someone. Self-representation in court a growing trend That's disturbing.

 

[mrjitty]

No. He made it clear what his reasons were for why he did what he did. All of these questions can be answered by reading the manifesto.

This is why I think it is a mistake to try and suppress not just his manifesto but the manifestos or other forms of communication from ANY person who commits these acts. It's insulting to me that any government tells the world not to read it but then allows and even encourages "journalists" to select specific parts of it to "report" on, often taking things out of context or adding their own spin, or using it to promote their own beliefs or agendas.

If the manifesto is truly the senseless ramblings of a madman not worthy of discussion or debate, I can read it and figure that out for myself. I don't need nor do I accept someone else interpreting the contents of it for me.

All imo.

To be clear, no one is saying you can't read it.

The Ardern government is specifically asking media, responsible platforms and social media users not to assist in spreading (and thus normalising) this kind of propaganda.

The headmaster of my old high school was interviewed and reported that during the lockdown, kids were on their phones accessing material including the video.

His point was not that we can "ban anyone from accessing it" but that schools etc have a duty to talk to kids openly about this stuff and explain why accessing it is not a good idea. Especially parents have a responsibility also - when we know young men of high school age can be susceptible to this stuff.

So it is hardly helpful if media or facebook or youtube are actively promoting the content at the same time schools (and others) are trying to advocate for responsible use of social media.

 

[mrjitty]

There doesn't seem to be any connection to any terrorist or supremecist group.

Law Enforcement's point is not that there are organised groups, but rather than the tide of white extremism has now led to multiple self starters - we have seen the same thing with islamic terror

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Grafton doesn't have a culturally diverse population. He would have had a cultural stock just going to a major city.

What's a cultural stock? He seemed to enjoy being in other countries like Pakistan. It seems like he spent quite a bit of his time with people of another culture.

 

[mrjitty]

An 18-year-old accused of sharing a live-stream of the Christchurch mosque mass shooting has been refused bail.

The teen faces two charges: one of sharing the live-stream and a second for posting a photograph of one of the mosques attacked with the message "target acquired" along with other chat messages "inciting extreme violence".

He appeared in Christchurch District Court today and was granted name suppression. He is due back in court next month.

Police have said he was not involved in the shootings.

The maximum sentence for each of the charges against the 18-year-old is 14 years' jail.

Christchurch mosque shootings: Brenton Tarrant to represent himself in court

There has been a further update to the above:

The charge relating to distributing an objectionable publication is dated March 15, the day of the mosque shootings, court documents show.

The second charge, of making an objectionable publication, alleges the offence took place between March 8 – 15.

The teen was initially charged with publishing insulting material with intent to excite hostility or ill will against a group of persons on the basis of race, ethnicity, or national origins. That charge was withdrawn today and replaced by the two new charges.

Good.

Twitter and FB have been way too lax about users actively advocating violence. This is an extreme case but one of the most egregious ones is all the rape threats female personalities get online. Time for the platforms to be forced to clean up, and users to be held to standards of accountability.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I think we can pretty much guarantee this will be just another internet show to entertain his online buddies. I gather New Zealand gives him the right to represent himself in court. I gather New Zealsnd doesn't require a defense lawyer when trying someone. Self-representation in court a growing trend That's disturbing.

I'm not aware of trials being live streamed in NZ (they don't in Oz either). It's even possible there won't be live tweets - this usually depends on the individual judge.

If the above is correct, and if I were the judge, I'd be making an announcement before the trial to this effect. That would take the wind out of his sails.

 

[mrjitty]

I think we can pretty much guarantee this will be just another internet show to entertain his online buddies.

For me one of the most overlooked aspects of the attacks is that the perp has sought to impose a very international framework to his supposed motivations which map very much to current popular narratives about white supremacy and threats from Islam

However this all lacks any local context in CHC - the guy isn't even from here.

The whole point of this is for his supposed global audience - which is why it is important we don't give him notoriety, platform etc

 

[Alisajo]

What's a cultural stock? He seemed to enjoy being in other countries like Pakistan. It seems like he spent quite a bit of his time with people of another culture.

Cultural stock meaning - is an experience a person may have when one moves to a cultural environment which is different from one's own.

Not permanent cultural shock.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm not aware of trials being live streamed in NZ (they don't in Oz either). It's even possible there won't be live tweets - this usually depends on the individual judge.

If the above is correct, and if I were the judge, I'd be making an announcement before the trial to this effect. That would take the wind out of his sails.

Agreed.

He needs to be deplatformed.

He can have access to high quality justice, in a non media circus way.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Is that a reaction to the article that ZaZara just posted, or to the whole big picture of a lunatic with a gun killing 50 praying people? If it's about the article, keep in mind that the author, Javier Lesaca, is a Doctor in History and a visiting researcher at Columbia University. It is opinion, presumably well-researched, and the link in blue (turn terror into a multimedia spectacle) goes to an article about someone who used video to pledge allegiance to a radical group - not to do what Tarrant did. That alone suggest that perhaps there is a little stretching of information to make a point.

"From 2014 to 2019, the terrorist group Islamic State has broadcast a total of 243 videos through open social networks showing the murder of more than a thousand people, more than 90% of them Muslim and Arab from Iraq, Syria, Egypt , Libya and Yemen. Nearly 50% of these murders have been issued emulating the scenes of violence of well-known series, films and action videogames, in an attempt to turn terror into a multimedia spectacle capable of seducing new and young audiences in a global world, resentful and willing to avenge an internal enemy for internal frustrations."​

Análisis | La estética del odio

In my opinion it's all horrible. Filming torturing and killing people and posting it on the net is getting popular. Remember the people who kidnapped the mentally handicapped young man and tortured him while livestreaming it on Facebook? The man who beat a homeless man and livestreamed it on Facebook? The man who murdered that poor old man and posted it on Facebook, the list goes on and on. There are a lot of sick people out there. Much as I despise extremists and terrrorists, they are far from the only people turning horror and death into entertainment.

 

[JudgeJudi]

For me one of the most overlooked aspects of the attacks is that the perp has sought to impose a very international framework to his supposed motivations which map very much to current popular narratives about white supremacy and threats from Islam

However this all lacks any local context in CHC - the guy isn't even from here.

The whole point of this is for his supposed global audience - which is why it is important we don't give him notoriety, platform etc

"The author said he had been planning the attack for two years and moved from Australia to New Zealand to plan and train. Though New Zealand was not the original target for the assault, he said he chose it because of its image as one of the safest countries in the world".

Mosque terrorist may have targeted New Zealand because it's so safe