New Zealand - White Island volcano erupts, 19 dead, many injuries from cruise excursion, 9 Dec 2019 *charges*

[BetteDavisEyes]

When tourists go somewhere, they have no idea about the places they are going to even if they are researched online.

I feel it is up to the cruise line to investigate and vet anything or place . They make 100% or more of the price the tour operator charges

While cruise lines may very well vet all of their recommended tour operators, cruise passengers need to remember that not all countries abide by the same laws that we, as Americans, do. Shore excursions that are recommended by cruise lines may very well meet local safety standards, but that does not mean that they are the standards that we might expect.

Some of the vehicles that DH and I have been transported in on various cruise-line-sanctioned shore excursions would definitely not meet safety standards in the U.S. Overcrowded vans with no shock absorbers, questionable braking systems, drivers who might not have passed a breathalyzer, etc. are a few of the less-than-desirable shore excursions we've taken and prayed the entire trip that we'd arrive back at the ship safely. It truly amazes me when we hear about many cruise passengers who book private shore excursions that are cheaper than those sponsored by the cruise line

 

[CoverMeCagney]

When tourists go somewhere, they have no idea about the places they are going to even if they are researched online.

I feel it is up to the cruise line to investigate and vet anything or place . They make 100% or more of the price the tour operator charges

I agree to an extent but walking around the crater of an active volcano - it aint rocket science to understand there may be risks involved. I'd find it interesting and want to go, others wouldn't dream of stepping ashore. I'm sure I read that many of the cruisers opted not to do the trip because of reports of increased volcanic activity on the island.

Basically I don't know who is at fault here, I'm not convinced anyone is, yet. Presumably once the relevant authorities have finished dealing with the immediate issues (the aforementioned dead, injured and missing) they will be able to clarify.

Here's one of the posters advertising the trip. Would be interesting to know what further information was given to customers at the time of booking.



New Zealand volcano: Why did warning systems not go off before the White Island eruption?

Two months before the eruption, New Zealand’s geological monitoring agency GoeNet warned of an increase in steam-driven activity on White Island. On September 26, volcanologist Steve Sherburn reported “small-scale geyser-like eruptions” of mud and steam. Some of the scorching jets reached heights of 32ft (10m) but the mini eruptions were not deemed unsafe to tourists. The GeoNet activity bulletin also noted “they not pose any hazard to visitors to the island and are not a sign of increasing volcanic activity".

Then, just one week before the deadly eruption, GeoNet noted “moderate volcanic unrest” at White Island, suggesting the potential for an eruption.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What's the point of having volcanic hazard levels monitored if they're going to be ignored?

When the reading was at Level 2, since November 18, all tours to the island should have been discontinued for an indefinite period. Even though GeoNet can't predict the exact moment a volcano will erupt, their monitoring equipment guide is close enough.
The chart advises an eruption can occur at any level, and levels may not move it sequence as activity can change rapidly.

The people from the cruise ship who signed up for the White Island Tour, imo, would have no idea of the dangers involved. Afaik, they weren't volcano enthusiasts who knew the risks, which at Level 2, is a prediction there's a high risk of eruption at any time.

Volcano Alert Level System Chart -
https://www.gns.cri.nz/var/ezwebin_...45-2-eng-GB/NZ-Volcano-Alert-Level-System.png

NOVEMBER 18

In mid-November, GeoNet raised the Volcanic Alert Level for White Island to level two, saying the degree of volcanic tremor had increased from weak to moderate strength.

“Volcanic unrest continues and some monitored parameters show further increases in activity. Hazards on the island are now greater than during the past few weeks,” said volcanologist Michael Rosenberg.

He stressed that eruptions of steam, gas, mud or rocks could occur “with little or no warning”.

NOVEMBER 24

A week later, a magnitude 5.9 earthquake shook the Bay of Plenty, where White Island is located.

The earthquake’s epicentre was about 50 kilometres off the coast of New Zealand, and 115 kilometres deep.

It caused “no change” in White Island’s activity, but authorities warned “moderate volcanic unrest” was continuing.

DECEMBER 3

A week ago, GeoNet reported “substantial” gas, steam and mud bursts had been observed at the back of White Island’s crater lake, and were happening more frequently than before.

“This fountaining is regularly throwing mud and debris 20-30 metres into the air,” said volcanologist Brad Scott.

“While the activity is contained to the far side of the lake, the current level of activity does not pose a direct hazard to visitors.”

Disturbing photo seconds before eruption

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree to an extent but walking around the crater of an active volcano - it aint rocket science to understand there may be risks involved. I'd find it interesting and want to go, others wouldn't dream of stepping ashore. I'm sure I read that many of the cruisers opted not to do the trip because of reports of increased volcanic activity on the island.

Basically I don't know who is at fault here, I'm not convinced anyone is, yet. Presumably once the relevant authorities have finished dealing with the immediate issues (the aforementioned dead, injured and missing) they will be able to clarify.

Here's one of the posters advertising the trip. Would be interesting to know what further information was given to customers at the time of booking.

View attachment 219698

New Zealand volcano: Why did warning systems not go off before the White Island eruption?

Two months before the eruption, New Zealand’s geological monitoring agency GoeNet warned of an increase in steam-driven activity on White Island. On September 26, volcanologist Steve Sherburn reported “small-scale geyser-like eruptions” of mud and steam. Some of the scorching jets reached heights of 32ft (10m) but the mini eruptions were not deemed unsafe to tourists. The GeoNet activity bulletin also noted “they not pose any hazard to visitors to the island and are not a sign of increasing volcanic activity".

Then, just one week before the deadly eruption, GeoNet noted “moderate volcanic unrest” at White Island, suggesting the potential for an eruption.

They were all advised that the volcano was at a Level 2 risk (Level 5 being the highest). I have heard that several times on TV News.

I also want to mention that the police have clarified that there is no criminal investigation. There is going to be a Health & Safety investigation.

 

[SouthAussie]

Presser right now. NZ Coroner speaking .... she has declared a mass tragedy incident, which gets many agencies involved. Police, medical staff, scientists, and lots of other scientific-sounding people whose occupation I cannot pronounce.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Very sad to think there are 2 families with teenage children missing. Both are from Sydney. Incomprehensible loss for remaining friends and family.
The Australians missing and injured in the volcano eruption

 

[SouthAussie]

Very sad to think there are 2 families with teenage children missing. Both are from Sydney. Incomprehensible loss for remaining friends and family.
The Australians missing and injured in the volcano eruption

Very sad also that they are struggling to identify most of the deceased and some of the victims in hospital. Such an ongoing worry for many families.


Some survivors in hospitals around the country have still not been identified due to extreme injuries, Police Minister Stuart Nash told Radio New Zealand.
"As you can imagine there are a number in hospital who cannot communicate because they have had significant burns not only to skin but to internal organs."
"They cannot speak in any way, shape or form."
"We need to ensure that we do get this right because there would be nothing worse than coming out and releasing a list of names then having to retract that because we didn't get it right."
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ruption-death-toll-rises-20191210-p53iqq.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Over the past two days, New Zealanders have come to the Port of Tauranga to pay respect, laying flowers and delivering a moving Maori prayer or karakia.

This little country punches above its weight when it comes to humanity.

They were moved to tears and felt love as Maori leaders pressed their noses to the ship's officers — saying we are "all family" at this difficult time.

As Captain Henrik Loy addressed passengers last night saying he was struggling to comprehend what had happened, everyone fell silent.



'They were moved to tears': NZ cruise ship departs port after volcano tragedy

 

[SouthAussie]

A magnitude 5.3 earthquake has struck near Gisborne, 23 hours after White Island erupted yesterday.
White Island volcano erupts in Bay of Plenty: 6 dead, 8 missing, 30 in hospital


There has been a "significant increase" in volcanic tremor at White Island since 4:00am this morning, according to a GeoNet update.

"This has been accompanied by vigorous steaming and localised mud jetting in several of the craters created by the eruption on Monday. We interpret these signals as evidence of continued high gas pressures within the volcano," the report says.
"The situation remains highly uncertain as to future activity. Eruptions in the next 24 hours are still likely to occur."

The Volcanic Alert Level remains at Level 3.

Drones were launched at 8:30am to do surveillance of the island. A meeting of scientific experts will take place later this morning to assess the information brought back by the drone and inform when a recovery effort can be launched.

"We can't put other people in jeopardy to go back out there until we can be absolutely certain its safe," he said.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ruption-death-toll-rises-20191210-p53iqq.html

 

[human]

Voice of reason, @Hatfield. I find it disturbing that people talk of suing before even knowing the full facts. This was a horrible tragedy which could only have been prevented had that island closed itself to visitors years ago. There may be nobody to sue as volcanic eruptions are notoriously difficult to predict so what happens then? However, those poor souls that don't have free healthcare will have huge medical bills to pay so I can see the attraction in wanting compensation, though I am fairly confident NZ will pay for most of it.

But please, we don't even have names or a body count or any witness testimonies yet. People need to stop talking about suing and compensation and dollars. It's completely vulgar in the grand scheme of death and pain and missing loved ones.

When tourists go somewhere, they have no idea about the places they are going to even if they are researched online.

I feel it is up to the cruise line to investigate and vet anything or place . They make 100% or more of the price the tour operator charges

While cruise lines may very well vet all of their recommended tour operators, cruise passengers need to remember that not all countries abide by the same laws that we, as Americans, do. Shore excursions that are recommended by cruise lines may very well meet local safety standards, but that does not mean that they are the standards that we might expect.

Some of the vehicles that DH and I have been transported in on various cruise-line-sanctioned shore excursions would definitely not meet safety standards in the U.S. Overcrowded vans with no shock absorbers, questionable braking systems, drivers who might not have passed a breathalyzer, etc. are a few of the less-than-desirable shore excursions we've taken and prayed the entire trip that we'd arrive back at the ship safely. It truly amazes me when we hear about many cruise passengers who book private shore excursions that are cheaper than those sponsored by the cruise line

When there is a bigger than normal cruise ship, my friends and I do tours. My car is safe because I use it and I do have CPR training. But most of the others have zero.

Cruise really have little impact on the local economy so those that can seize the opportunity.

 

[they'll get you]

What lies beneath the active volcano


Whakaari/White Island, a volcano that has been active for at least 150,000 years, is much bigger than it first appears

On the surface, New Zealand's most active volcano is a rugged piece of land, measuring around 2 kilometres in diameter and mostly occupied by the Main Crater. It peaks at 321metres with the crater floor sitting less than 30m above sea level, according to GNS Science.

But beneath the surface is almost 1000m of marine mountain - making up around 70 per cent of the cone
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ruption-death-toll-rises-20191210-p53iqq.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

At level 2, (which was the level the volcano was at from November 18) these are the potential hazards -

Eruption hazards depend on the volcano and eruption style, and may include explosions, ballistics (flying rocks), pyroclastic density currents (fast moving hot ash clouds), lava flows, lava domes, landslides, ash, volcanic gases, lightning, lahars (mudflows), tsunami, and/or earthquakes.

The escalation to level 3 and 4 on December 9.

Level 3 - minor volcanic eruptions
Level 4 - moderate volcanic eruptions

GeoNet About Volcanic Alert Levels

Were the tour operators and the visitors given this information, these people were visiting the island since Nov 18 at hazard Level 2?



'We weren’t advised of any warnings'

Passengers on board the Royal Caribbean cruise ship were not warned of the increased danger on White Island, one woman says.

Twenty-four-year-old Venessa Lugo, from Newcastle, told the Herald Sun the ship provided information about the island on paper printouts and online, but no warnings were mentioned.

'We weren’t advised of any warnings', cruise passenger says



Any waivers signed by tour guides or tourists travelling to White Island would not make a difference to tour operators' legal obligation to provide a safe environment for their staff and customers.
......
Tourists who travelled to the island were often asked to sign a waiver saying they understood the risk involved.
Dave Doggart visited at Easter and said the waiver he signed made it clear it was an unpredictable and active volcano.

But WorkSafe confirmed that a waiver would not remove any of an employer's legal obligations under the Health and Safety at Work Act.

Employers have to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of their workers and other people who could be put at risk by the work of the business.

It is not possible to contract out of that requirement.

Whakaari/White Island tour operators 'can't waiver their way out of safety obligations'

 

[SouthAussie]

At level 2, (which was the level the volcano was at from November 18) these are the potential hazards -

Eruption hazards depend on the volcano and eruption style, and may include explosions, ballistics (flying rocks), pyroclastic density currents (fast moving hot ash clouds), lava flows, lava domes, landslides, ash, volcanic gases, lightning, lahars (mudflows), tsunami, and/or earthquakes.

The escalation to level 3 and 4 on December 9.

Level 3 - minor volcanic eruptions
Level 4 - moderate volcanic eruptions

GeoNet About Volcanic Alert Levels

Were the tour operators and the visitors given this information, these people were visiting the island since Nov 18 at hazard Level 2?



'We weren’t advised of any warnings'

Passengers on board the Royal Caribbean cruise ship were not warned of the increased danger on White Island, one woman says.

Twenty-four-year-old Venessa Lugo, from Newcastle, told the Herald Sun the ship provided information about the island on paper printouts and online, but no warnings were mentioned.

'We weren’t advised of any warnings', cruise passenger says



Any waivers signed by tour guides or tourists travelling to White Island would not make a difference to tour operators' legal obligation to provide a safe environment for their staff and customers.
......
Tourists who travelled to the island were often asked to sign a waiver saying they understood the risk involved.
Dave Doggart visited at Easter and said the waiver he signed made it clear it was an unpredictable and active volcano.

But WorkSafe confirmed that a waiver would not remove any of an employer's legal obligations under the Health and Safety at Work Act.

Employers have to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety of their workers and other people who could be put at risk by the work of the business.

It is not possible to contract out of that requirement.

Whakaari/White Island tour operators 'can't waiver their way out of safety obligations'

Yes, it seems that the tour operators are going to get slammed.
Perhaps the Coroner will recommend that safety guidelines are required and enforced in the future.

"Tour operators make the ultimate decision whether to take visitors to the privately owned island, where access is controlled through permits, the New Zealand Herald reported."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/12/10/new-zealand-volcano/

 

[they'll get you]

A magnitude 5.3 earthquake has struck near Gisborne, 23 hours after White Island erupted yesterday.
White Island volcano erupts in Bay of Plenty: 6 dead, 8 missing, 30 in hospital


There has been a "significant increase" in volcanic tremor at White Island since 4:00am this morning, according to a GeoNet update.

"This has been accompanied by vigorous steaming and localised mud jetting in several of the craters created by the eruption on Monday. We interpret these signals as evidence of continued high gas pressures within the volcano," the report says.
"The situation remains highly uncertain as to future activity. Eruptions in the next 24 hours are still likely to occur."

The Volcanic Alert Level remains at Level 3.

Drones were launched at 8:30am to do surveillance of the island. A meeting of scientific experts will take place later this morning to assess the information brought back by the drone and inform when a recovery effort can be launched.

"We can't put other people in jeopardy to go back out there until we can be absolutely certain its safe," he said.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceani...ruption-death-toll-rises-20191210-p53iqq.html

It’s too dangerous for recovery, and there’s light showers for Auckland tomorrow.
If it should rain the ash will turn to (like) concrete and the lost will be encased in concrete

https://www.accuweather.com/en/nz/auckland/252066/daily-weather-forecast/252066?day=2

 

[they'll get you]

What's the point of having volcanic hazard levels monitored if they're going to be ignored?

When the reading was at Level 2, since November 18, all tours to the island should have been discontinued for an indefinite period. Even though GeoNet can't predict the exact moment a volcano will erupt, their monitoring equipment guide is close enough.
The chart advises an eruption can occur at any level, and levels may not move it sequence as activity can change rapidly.

The people from the cruise ship who signed up for the White Island Tour, imo, would have no idea of the dangers involved. Afaik, they weren't volcano enthusiasts who knew the risks, which at Level 2, is a prediction there's a high risk of eruption at any time.

Volcano Alert Level System Chart -
https://www.gns.cri.nz/var/ezwebin_...45-2-eng-GB/NZ-Volcano-Alert-Level-System.png



Disturbing photo seconds before eruption

Then there is Rotorua’s bubbling mud pools which is an active volcano as well and a must see in the North Island

Rotorua, a town set on its namesake lake on New Zealand's North Island, is renowned for its geothermal activity and Maori culture. In Te Puia’s Whakarewarewa Valley, there are bubbling mud pools and the 30m-tall Pohutu Geyser, which erupts many times daily

New Zealand is constantly moving and shaking and IMO the risk anywhere anytime is a potential threat.
This is Christchurch in 2011

 

[whitelilac]

An account by a private helicopter pilot who flew onto the island.... what he and and his friend piloting a second helicopter saw. It's horrific. These two managed to fly out some 10 people who were barely still alive. It's beyond sad.
New Zealand helicopter pilot describes horror of volcano rescue

 

[SouthAussie]

Then there is Rotorua’s bubbling mud pools which is an active volcano as well and a must see in the North Island

Rotorua, a town set on its namesake lake on New Zealand's North Island, is renowned for its geothermal activity and Maori culture. In Te Puia’s Whakarewarewa Valley, there are bubbling mud pools and the 30m-tall Pohutu Geyser, which erupts many times daily

To me, people will accept personal responsibility for their actions.

As I know that you are aware, someone on another thread said there are all kinds of dicey local tours offered to cruise passengers around the world. You decide whether to go or not. It is your personal decision, as we are not a nanny state. Not all countries have the same safety guidelines.
Hawaii, too, offer tours of active volcanoes. My DD has been on one of the Hawaiian tours.

And evidently only 48 (that we know of) of 4,000+ people elected to take this White Island tour.

 

[SouthAussie]

An account by a private helicopter pilot who flew onto the island.... what he and and his friend piloting a second helicopter saw. It's horrific. These two managed to fly out some 10 people who were barely still alive. It's beyond sad.
New Zealand helicopter pilot describes horror of volcano rescue

I saw that on TV. He is being held as a hero for his actions. He picked people up and put them into his helicopter as they were just laying there.
And he said a couple of people in his helicopter expired while he was flying them back to the mainland.

 

[scdiv]

And there really are people complaining about their "annoyance" about the ship's itinerary change. Seems just a little tone deaf...

'They were moved to tears': NZ cruise ship departs port after volcano tragedy

 

[whitelilac]

^ Quite insensitive.
After all, as the author of the article states "But unlike others who came on this holiday, we get to go home."