Norway Norway - Isdalen, WhtFem 503UFNOR, multiple aliases, multilingual, Nov'70

[Susikatze]

On top of that, genetic genealogy is banned in most European countries and DNA research for ID purposes is usually limited to MtDNA and crime databases (sort of like Codis). Interpol just released a database called Ifamilia, which is basically a Codis, which did not exist before since the old databases were limited to crime scene or convict DNA. Now in Ifamilia, families of missing people can submit DNA which is considered a big step but it is basically Codis and we know how effective that is for UID cases.
She will never be IDD this way unless someone puts her DNA there and a close relative misses her and also submits DNA. Not likely

 

[MelmothTheLost]

On top of that, genetic genealogy is banned in most European countries and DNA research for ID purposes is usually limited to MtDNA and crime databases (sort of like Codis). Interpol just released a database called Ifamilia, which is basically a Codis, which did not exist before since the old databases were limited to crime scene or convict DNA. Now in Ifamilia, families of missing people can submit DNA which is considered a big step but it is basically Codis and we know how effective that is for UID cases.
She will never be IDD this way unless someone puts her DNA there and a close relative misses her and also submits DNA. Not likely

The laws are indeed very strict in the EU. In France it is actually illegal for someone in France to order a DNA testing kit (see DNA Testing on the Internet), so it would be illegal for someone in France to order a kit to be sent to a UK or Irish address where the tests are entirely legal. Probably the way round this would be for a person in the UK or Ireland to order a kit to their address for the French/EU national to use outside the EU. The sample could then be mailed from the UK/Ireland and the results delivered online.

I imagine that the issue is that while the person giving the sample may consent to this use of their DNA, their relatives can't.

I'm aware of iFamilia and am also sceptical as to how effective it's going to be. It's all very well DNA testing the dead and entering the profiles into a database, but what is that profile going to be matched against if consumer DNA testing is banned?

 

[MarziPanda]

The laws are indeed very strict in the EU. In France it is actually illegal for someone in France to order a DNA testing kit (see DNA Testing on the Internet), so it would be illegal for someone in France to order a kit to be sent to a UK or Irish address where the tests are entirely legal. Probably the way round this would be for a person in the UK or Ireland to order a kit to their address for the French/EU national to use outside the EU. The sample could then be mailed from the UK/Ireland and the results delivered online.

I imagine that the issue is that while the person giving the sample may consent to this use of their DNA, their relatives can't.

I'm aware of iFamilia and am also sceptical as to how effective it's going to be. It's all very well DNA testing the dead and entering the profiles into a database, but what is that profile going to be matched against if consumer DNA testing is banned?

It's worth noting I think that France is the only country I know of where it's illegal to take a consumer DNA test. It's not illegal in the vast majority of Europe, France is just weird with their paternity laws. MyHeritage is the testing platform of choice for most of Europe. They even sponsored Eurovision (the world's biggest music competition watched by millions mostly in Europe) one year! I know Europeans who have done it.

It's just that it's not that popular. But people successfully do use genetic genealogy in Europe, for identifying a parent/parents, all the time. It's also worth noting I think that Sweden has used GG to solve a murder in the recent past (as a pilot) and they're in the EU. Norway is not in the EU.

So I do think there's hope!

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

It's also worth noting I think that Sweden has used GG to solve a murder in the recent past (as a pilot) and they're in the EU. Norway is not in the EU.

True, but Norway is also solving cases using GG, and IIRC, Denmark is considering using GG to solve cold cases.

 

[RookieWebsleuth2024]

It's worth noting I think that France is the only country I know of where it's illegal to take a consumer DNA test. It's not illegal in the vast majority of Europe, France is just weird with their paternity laws. MyHeritage is the testing platform of choice for most of Europe. They even sponsored Eurovision (the world's biggest music competition watched by millions mostly in Europe) one year! I know Europeans who have done it.

It's just that it's not that popular. But people successfully do use genetic genealogy in Europe, for identifying a parent/parents, all the time. It's also worth noting I think that Sweden has used GG to solve a murder in the recent past (as a pilot) and they're in the EU. Norway is not in the EU.

So I do think there's hope!

Yes, I agree, but Norway is part of the European Economic Area and also has extremely strict laws.

 

[MarziPanda]

True, but Norway is also solving cases using GG, and IIRC, Denmark is considering using GG to solve cold cases.

That's great! I hadn't heard about that (or I read it and forgot, lol). So there definitely is hope that this will be solved.

I think in the future, GG will end up being a standard for when cases start to go cold. This is just the start. Some countries will be a lot slower to pick it up (partly because of the strict laws) but my hope is that eventually any case that has DNA will be able to be solved. Europe is definitely eyeing up the massive success the US is having with this.

 

[RookieWebsleuth2024]

Apparently, Europe is a bit of a jungle when it comes to genetic testing, and the EU has asked its members to harmonize their legislation. Even if they do, Norway would not be obliged to follow unless they want to begin accession talks, which is highly unlikely. The following article is 4 years old, but it seems they are heading toward some sort of direction.

Europe eyes new rules for ‘Wild West’ of DNA testing

Online commercial DNA testing companies have the upper hand in the EU, where fragmented regulation is difficult to enforce.

www.politico.eu

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Seems too amateurish to have been a spy, who would NEVER travel with multiple identity papers. I would buy that she might have been a courier or go between for Genoud and the Palestinians, which could have incurred the wrath of the Israelis. It certainly was not suicide. The body was burned with gasoline as an accelerant and no container was found nearby. She certainly did not dispose of it after she was burned.
Just spitballing for theories that satisfy the known facts.

I doubt that we will see her identity revealed, unless a news service somehow gets access to her dna and runs it on GEDmatch. All other parties involved seem to want the matter to just go away.

 

[gabagool]

i dont know how relevant this is but arsine gas (arsenic+acid) smells like garlic. the store owner said she had a garlicky odor.

Arsine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Sor Juana]

The Isdal woman's many identities

As the police began to investigate the identity of the Isdal woman, it was discovered she had stayed in the St Svithun hotel in Stavanger. Further investigation showed that she had stayed in several hotels in Norway - but using different aliases. And since most hotels required guests to show a passport and fill in a check-in form, this means she would have had several fake passports. Here is a sample of those hotel forms.

If you look at the origins of the names IW chose, you can see that a common theme among these names appears to be historical European military with some hints to noble associations.

Lancier – directly refers to a lancer, a cavalry.
Tielt – a town in Belgium with historical military significance.
Nielsen – a Scandinavian surname linked to Viking heritage and noble lineages.
Zarne – linked to regions with historical battles.
Merchez – potentially of French or Flemish origin, possibly tied to knightly families.
Leenhouwer – related to the feudal system (leen = fief, houwer = cutter), implying a connection to medieval land ownership and military service. ​

The overarching concept therefore is European feudal and military history involving knights and nobility. JMO

 

[Lorrie]

Do you have any documentation for what you wrote about Nielsen? In Scandinavia the -sen and -son in last names indicates that its owner is a son of a Niels/Nils. I have never heard that it is a noble name and no nobel vikings that I have heard of is named Nielsen.
In witch country is Nielsen a noble name? Because it is not in any of the Scandinavian countries calendars of Nobelity??

 

[Tower]

Do you have any documentation for what you wrote about Nielsen? In Scandinavia the -sen and -son in last names indicates that its owner is a son of a Niels/Nils. I have never heard that it is a noble name and no nobel vikings that I have heard of is named Nielsen.
In witch country is Nielsen a noble name? Because it is not in any of the Scandinavian countries calendars of Nobelity??

I’ve never heard of it as a noble name. I have many ancestors named Nielsen. I’m just a US native with certainly no local knowledge, but my family has done extensive genealogy work in Scandinavia. Google states Nielsen is the most common surname in Denmark, no mention of nobility. Jmo

 

[Lorrie]

I’ve never heard of it as a noble name. I have many ancestors named Nielsen. I’m just a US native with certainly no local knowledge, but my family has done extensive genealogy work in Scandinavia. Google states Nielsen is the most common surname in Denmark, no mention of nobility. Jmo

Yes, I agree! Here in Scandinavia have -sen (Denmark and Norway) and -son (Sweden) surnames always been the most common surnames. So you have right! Thats why I wondered where Sor Juana got it from that Nielsen is a nobility... I am from Norway with ancestors from Denmark...

 

[Sor Juana]

Do you have any documentation for what you wrote about Nielsen?

RSBMFF

The surname Nielsen is derived from the Scandinavian personal name Njáll.

It derives from the pre-6th century Gaelic proper name meaning 'champion' (Gaelic: Niall), and was likely first found in pagan Ireland. It was adopted by Norsemen in the form 'Njal', and was brought to England both directly from Ireland by Scandinavian settlers, and indirectly by the Normans after the Conquest of 1066.

 

[Tower]

RSBMFF

The surname Nielsen is derived from the Scandinavian personal name Njáll.

It derives from the pre-6th century Gaelic proper name meaning 'champion' (Gaelic: Niall), and was likely first found in pagan Ireland. It was adopted by Norsemen in the form 'Njal', and was brought to England both directly from Ireland by Scandinavian settlers, and indirectly by the Normans after the Conquest of 1066.

I’m not sure if your original point was all the aliases were names of nobility? I don’t see any direct link in your post here that backs that up. If you trace any name back far enough, the conquerors and winners of war would be the ones to pass down their names, not the conquered, but I’m not seeing Nielsen is a name linked with any type of nobility or royalty. My opinion, of course.

 

[Carovb5]

What about HEYLIGERS Anny, has she been ruled out?

• Missing since: November 30, 1966
• Missing from: Eindhoven, The Netherlands

• Gender: Female
• Age: 23
• Height: 160 cm
• Weight: Unknown
• Eye Color: Blue/grey
• Hair Color: Brown long
• Distinguishing Marks: Unknown
• Clothing: Red trousers, blue shirt
• Jewelry: Unknown
• Personal Items: Unknown
• Dentals: Unknown
• Fingerprints: Unknown
• DNA: Unknown

MF-0207

HEYLIGERS Anny Missing since: November 30, 1966Missing from: Eindhoven, The Netherlands Anny disappeared from her home in Eindhoven, The Netherlands on November 30, 1966. Race: UnknownGender: Femal…

missingdoe.com

Anny vs Isdal woman

 

[Lorrie]

Nobody have been ruled out. And I would think it is difficult to rule out anyone as long as Norway dont use genealogy databases to identify unidentified persons.

 

[Carovb5]

Nobody have been ruled out. And I would think it is difficult to rule out anyone as long as Norway dont use genealogy databases to identify persons.

Police compare dentals, fingerprints & dna from missing person cases against jane/john does all the time, there muts be rule outs.

But i agree that the use of genezlogy in Europe would have an enormously positive impact for identifying does! But DNA tests would have to become more popular/mainstream in Europe to get more matches!

 

[Lorrie]

Yes, police does but as long as her DNA is not in any international police databases it is difficult to do that. It is due to strong privacy rights in Europe and not the popularity of the test.

 

[Carovb5]

Yes, police does but as long as her DNA is not in any international police databases it is difficult to do that. It is due to strong privacy rights in Europe and not the popularity of the test.

I’ll try to explain.
There have been missing woman checked against her. So there are ruleouts. When they have a possible match they can compare by asking the missing ladies info. And then they rule out. An international database would be better, but they can make ruleouts without it by oldschool policework.

If, in the future, they adjust the law and can use Genetic gynealogy (hopefully!), more European samples are needed to be able to make better, faster and more matches. In the US doing a DNA test is more popular, so more chance of finding a match. More people to run it against = more chance to find the matchiIn Europe doing a DNA test is far less popular so less chance of finding a match. “How It Works. Genetic ancestry testing involves the comparison of a large number of DNA variants measured in an individual with the frequencies of these variants in reference populations sampled from across the world.” Genetic Ancestry Testing What Is It and Why Is It Important? - PMC.