It's not AI. The Business Hook video claims that the Isdal woman was Margot Elise Hoffmann born June 12 1932 in Dresden, an East German operative. While the video presents a dramatic conclusion, the identity of “Margot Hoffmann” is not confirmed by official sources. It’s likely a speculative interpretation based on real clues. I’m curious where all this is coming from, since I haven’t seen any official confirmation regarding a familial DNA investigation or anything similar.
Norway Norway - Isdalen, WhtFem 503UFNOR, multiple aliases, multilingual, Nov'70
- Thread starter laini
- Start date
Hotel Hordaheimen was owned by the Bondeungdomslaget (a youth organisation), which was affiliated with the temperance movement, though not necessarily religious. They did not sell alcohol in the organisations restaurants or hotels.
Hotel Bondeheimen in Oslo where she also stayed was owned by the same organisation.
Hotel Neptun in Bergen was owned by a fundament of organisations affilated with seamen and shipowners.
Hotel Viking in Oslo was owned by the Oslo muncipality build for the 1952 Olympic winter games.
Hotel Bristol in Bergen was private owned by a family until 1974. Hotel Augustin was also private owned.
Hotel Rosenkrantz in Bergen was owned by Norsk Folkeferie - an organisation whose goal was to give people a cheaper holiday/stay. By the time she stayed there it was more commercial.
Hotel Bristol in Stavanger was probably private owned too and very small and modest. Hotel Viking in Stavanger was also probably private owned and was not religious. It was modern and practical for its time.
Hotel Savoy in Oslo was either private owned or owned by a small hotel company. The hotel bar was known to be a gathering spot.
It seems that most of the hotels she stayed on was either private owned or owned by organisations and on the smaller side. Cheaper and older hotels. So I guess it was likely that she wanted to get attention and at the same time be private.
Hotel Bondeheimen in Oslo where she also stayed was owned by the same organisation.
Hotel Neptun in Bergen was owned by a fundament of organisations affilated with seamen and shipowners.
Hotel Viking in Oslo was owned by the Oslo muncipality build for the 1952 Olympic winter games.
Hotel Bristol in Bergen was private owned by a family until 1974. Hotel Augustin was also private owned.
Hotel Rosenkrantz in Bergen was owned by Norsk Folkeferie - an organisation whose goal was to give people a cheaper holiday/stay. By the time she stayed there it was more commercial.
Hotel Bristol in Stavanger was probably private owned too and very small and modest. Hotel Viking in Stavanger was also probably private owned and was not religious. It was modern and practical for its time.
Hotel Savoy in Oslo was either private owned or owned by a small hotel company. The hotel bar was known to be a gathering spot.
It seems that most of the hotels she stayed on was either private owned or owned by organisations and on the smaller side. Cheaper and older hotels. So I guess it was likely that she wanted to get attention and at the same time be private.
On findagrave that name (M.E.H.) has been added as the Isdal women with a note "Note: with recent advances in DNA testing her name has been discovered.". However, for now I personally feel it's a hoax, an attempt to get more views for the video or similar. There has been nothing official.
2019: The DNA material in the case belongs to the Norwegian police and, for legal and ethical reasons, they have so far not allowed the material to be run through commercial databases used by people to find out about their ancestry. (BBC) There are barely any updates in Norwegian since 2019.
2019: The DNA material in the case belongs to the Norwegian police and, for legal and ethical reasons, they have so far not allowed the material to be run through commercial databases used by people to find out about their ancestry. (BBC) There are barely any updates in Norwegian since 2019.
Last edited:
Someone adjusted a Find A Grave Margot Elise “The Isdal Woman” Hoffmann ... to her being the Isdal woman. There is also this website The Isdal Woman of Norway | Into Horror History | J.A. Hernandez mentioning her picture to possibly be the Isdal woman. AI or not, it’s highly likely based on these sites/info.
Sorry for the double mention of Find a grave, we posted simultaneously
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2024
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 11,382
You know, thank you so much on this. I know about the temperance, but to my knowledge, it was just incredibly difficult by any standards to obtain alcohol in Norway in this timeframe-- meaning all of Norway. One had to go to Vinmopolet, a state-run company, to purchase for home use if the beverage was 4.75 ABV or more. For lower ABV, one had to go through an outlet called "olmonopol," or through a grocery store, provided the municipality was not "dry." And there were restrictions on days/times for purchase. (This is what I am seeing online.)
This isn't necessarily something particular to any hotel in the region, I would think, so I'm not sure I'd want to put so much weight into the idea that the victim was choosing these hotels "because of" that factor. These seem like hotels with good, solid reputations, and I'm gathering pretty affordable, totally agreed.
And just as an additional note on the idea of her potentially fleeing a communist state (like Romania), I've seen a "corn drift" mentioned in association with her, where her diet started to include more corn. Corn was the pet project, idealized staple that the communists were always, always encouraging and demanding. So we might be seeing that, we might be seeing some change of diet with the Great Depression, who knows? We might be seeing it with actual relocation. It might be a combination of factors, too.
And returning to the garlic scent for a second. Just noting, on the Mujdei (had a couple of the letters transposed on this before) mentioned above-- it's huge in Romania, very homey type of dish, it has an extremely strong garlic smell. It's a sauce/paste, and it was prepared & eaten raw. She could have used one of her spoons to prepare this in her hotel with a loaf of bread. And sorry, adding one more note here, but hadn't they said she didn't eat a lot of fish? Romanians generally consume less fish than other members of the EU.
However it happened, this poor, poor woman. It's just ghastly.
Last edited:
We still have to go to Vinmonopolet, but the last Ølmonopol was closed in 2012. The monopoly for beer was mostly in the districts and not in the cities in the 1970-ies. Sweden and Finland have the same monopoly as Norway. I would not think this has anything to do with her.
I rather think that she chose the hotels on the cheaper and smaller side so she could get attention from the men she was going to meet. Since she choose different aliases all the time I guess they would not know her name at the time. They have to know Bergen very well to choose the place where she were found so I guess they know the smaller hotels too and knew where they could find her.
I rather think that she chose the hotels on the cheaper and smaller side so she could get attention from the men she was going to meet. Since she choose different aliases all the time I guess they would not know her name at the time. They have to know Bergen very well to choose the place where she were found so I guess they know the smaller hotels too and knew where they could find her.
Why on earth would Norwegian authorities want to keep quiet about things related to her if she was a art trader or high profile sexworker?
A lot of journalists and others says that the police was unusually reserved and secretive about this case.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2024
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 11,382
Ok, just a quick update, still researching this. This is an article on Romania's obsession with garlic:
www.bbc.com
Was reading through it, and couldn't help but notice this:
"Aside from being an essential ingredient in Romanian cuisine, garlic has long been thought of as a magical plant. On the eve of Saint Andrew (the patron saint of Romania) on 29 November, garlic is believed to keep you safe against strigoi and moroi, evil spirits of those passed on that haunt the household of relatives still living. A Romanian Halloween of sorts, residents of rural areas both eat garlic and smear it on the corners of windows and doors to protect themselves. Rows of garlic can be seen hanging with the same purpose."
And I did a double-take and checked. November 29 is the date on which Isdal woman was found. They're wondering if she was there for hours or days. My take at this point is hours, but it may just be a coincidence. If so, it's a very interesting one.
How weird is that?
Why Romanians are obsessed with garlic
While many people eschew garlic in their food for fear of smelling of it, Romanians have a cult-like appreciation for the plant.
www.bbc.com
Was reading through it, and couldn't help but notice this:
"Aside from being an essential ingredient in Romanian cuisine, garlic has long been thought of as a magical plant. On the eve of Saint Andrew (the patron saint of Romania) on 29 November, garlic is believed to keep you safe against strigoi and moroi, evil spirits of those passed on that haunt the household of relatives still living. A Romanian Halloween of sorts, residents of rural areas both eat garlic and smear it on the corners of windows and doors to protect themselves. Rows of garlic can be seen hanging with the same purpose."
And I did a double-take and checked. November 29 is the date on which Isdal woman was found. They're wondering if she was there for hours or days. My take at this point is hours, but it may just be a coincidence. If so, it's a very interesting one.
How weird is that?
I think it is cultural. Same in Germany, all information is reserved for LE professionals (that usually means police only) working the case and the public is locked out unless theyre needed for hints if the investigation is stalled. But even then not all information is available to the public. I wouldnt read too much into it. Very different from how US LE works.
jmoo
Hm, I live in Norway and knows how LE works here. What has how the LE in US works to do with this case?
The journalists who worked on this case have said that it was very different from other cases they had worked with both before and after.. It is also documented that the police and authorities still are quiet about things related to this case. Why would experienced journalists react strongly on the secrecy from the police and authorities if this was the norm?
How come then the journalists feel that they was discouraged from investigate the case and the police quickly labeled it as a suicide?
Crime journalists here in Norway dont expect LE to share everything they know in crime cases either. A lot of documents about the case have disapeared too - why would the authorities hide the documents if she was a simple sexworker or an art trader?
The journalists who worked on this case have said that it was very different from other cases they had worked with both before and after.. It is also documented that the police and authorities still are quiet about things related to this case. Why would experienced journalists react strongly on the secrecy from the police and authorities if this was the norm?
How come then the journalists feel that they was discouraged from investigate the case and the police quickly labeled it as a suicide?
Crime journalists here in Norway dont expect LE to share everything they know in crime cases either. A lot of documents about the case have disapeared too - why would the authorities hide the documents if she was a simple sexworker or an art trader?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2024
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 11,382
If she intended to set herself on fire, I don't know why she'd have chosen a day when rain was at all possible, and she'd purchased and brought that umbrella. This rain thing-- I'm looking now and it's overcast like 72% of the time in Bergen at this time of year. She does so much traveling, she has no control over murderers, but she has control over her own suicide, one would think. Why'd it have to be this day, at this place? This time of year and this location-- it wasn't the ideal scenario for building a fire. Why the rubber boots? They had hiking boots in 1970, and they had workboots, jmo even the workboots would be preferable. But maybe rubber was what occurred to her, or/and maybe rubber's all she had available. But that sounds more like someone anticipating wet conditions than someone preparing to literally set herself on fire. Tiny amount of petrol beneath her in the soil, and two drops in her hat. That's precious little, but I'm sure the bulk of whatever was used to start the blaze had dried/dissipated, been burned away by then. I know people don't see how she could have transported any petrol to the site, but jmo it actually is possible, in some innocuous container perhaps not even noticed at the scene or not interpreted to be the vessel because she may have brought only a small amount of petrol to start things off, rinsed out residue, and then built a fire with paper & maybe (?) articles of clothing, and then switched to the liquor. (Also, I'd wonder if she didn't have the petrol in some kind of container that burned completely away with the fire itself. I'm looking at Death in Ice Valley, and that is indeed possible per one poster, they're noting a certain type of UK lighter fluid refill made at this time, a sausage-shaped tube that contained a small amount of petrol, and that evidently would completely be burned away) Plus, if she's removing tags/labels from clothing, who's to say she didn't bury the accelerant container?
So there's that half empty bottle of liquor, based on what I can find about the type, I'm seeing 80 proof or potentially above, that will burn steadily if any kind of heat's applied. I'm still not sure how she or the unknown "they" got such a blaze going, but I'm guessing a modest amount of petrol fed with paper and then steady application of liquor, articles of her clothing. Then, there are the pills. She took those in two to three doses. This is where I'd agree with the authorities going with suicide because this does sound like something that someone preparing to essentially build her own pyre might do. The pills served a dual purpose, they would to a large extent numb her, and they'd serve as a backup in case the pyre was not completely successful. Doping her up with pills and taking her out walking-- even to a car-- doesn't sound like a good move for a murderer, but murder still can't be ruled out, as they don't know the timing on her doses and she may have ingested them at the scene over an unknown period of time.
Where was the money coming from for her to live as she traveled? Looking at this, her log:
There are certain letters on here that aren't yet identified. P is Paris. But what are A and L? Guess: She was smuggling heroin that originated through the Golden Triangle (Laos/Thailand/Burma) and A is Amsterdam, L is likely London (maybe Lyon, but more likely London). The most telling notes on here are the July notes where she has "PL" and then "LA" listed for single days. So I think she was going from Paris to London, London to Amsterdam. These were likely big supply points. If she really was Romanian, she and her outfit might also have been working the Balkan route to some extent because Romania is listed as an important point as a transit country on that route, and was largely controlled through Turkish organized crime, I think. And I think "V" is probably Vienna, another major point on the Golden Triangle route.
If the letters really ARE associated with drug smuggling, the odds of murder shoot way, way up in my mind. And the perps would absolutely want that to look like a suicide. They may have lured her out there thinking they were all ultimately going to be boarding some vessel somewhere, and she feared the worst and left her bags in the locker. TOTAL speculation.
So there's that half empty bottle of liquor, based on what I can find about the type, I'm seeing 80 proof or potentially above, that will burn steadily if any kind of heat's applied. I'm still not sure how she or the unknown "they" got such a blaze going, but I'm guessing a modest amount of petrol fed with paper and then steady application of liquor, articles of her clothing. Then, there are the pills. She took those in two to three doses. This is where I'd agree with the authorities going with suicide because this does sound like something that someone preparing to essentially build her own pyre might do. The pills served a dual purpose, they would to a large extent numb her, and they'd serve as a backup in case the pyre was not completely successful. Doping her up with pills and taking her out walking-- even to a car-- doesn't sound like a good move for a murderer, but murder still can't be ruled out, as they don't know the timing on her doses and she may have ingested them at the scene over an unknown period of time.
Where was the money coming from for her to live as she traveled? Looking at this, her log:
There are certain letters on here that aren't yet identified. P is Paris. But what are A and L? Guess: She was smuggling heroin that originated through the Golden Triangle (Laos/Thailand/Burma) and A is Amsterdam, L is likely London (maybe Lyon, but more likely London). The most telling notes on here are the July notes where she has "PL" and then "LA" listed for single days. So I think she was going from Paris to London, London to Amsterdam. These were likely big supply points. If she really was Romanian, she and her outfit might also have been working the Balkan route to some extent because Romania is listed as an important point as a transit country on that route, and was largely controlled through Turkish organized crime, I think. And I think "V" is probably Vienna, another major point on the Golden Triangle route.
If the letters really ARE associated with drug smuggling, the odds of murder shoot way, way up in my mind. And the perps would absolutely want that to look like a suicide. They may have lured her out there thinking they were all ultimately going to be boarding some vessel somewhere, and she feared the worst and left her bags in the locker. TOTAL speculation.
How would she as a foreigner know about Isdalen? It is not easy to find the place where she was found and it is a rugged terrain. I have been hiking in the aera myself and would not know about the place if I didnt live in the neighbourhood. And I have heard about the case since I was growing up.
It would take 30-45 minutes to walk from Bergen centre if you are local and know where to go. You could take a bus but you still have to know where to walk from there, the busstop is nowhere near the valley. I would think it would be easier places to get to to take your own life.
It would take 30-45 minutes to walk from Bergen centre if you are local and know where to go. You could take a bus but you still have to know where to walk from there, the busstop is nowhere near the valley. I would think it would be easier places to get to to take your own life.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2024
- Messages
- 1,408
- Reaction score
- 11,382
Totally agreed on this, it wouldn't seem likely. But she does meticulously remove labels from clothing, keep notes in code, collect and travel under fake passports, so she's not afraid of extremes, and maybe she made extreme efforts to find such a location. And this wasn't her first time in Bergen, we know that.. But why this place, at this time, in this way? Why'd it "have to be" this isolated place with a chance of rain to start a fire-- ??? Totally agreed it's bizarre. It's so bizarre that I know a lot of people are sure she was murdered. What's really weird to me since I started looking at the information is with the boots and umbrella, it sounds more like someone who thinks she's about to board a boat than someone who's ready to go kill herself by hiking into a remote area to set herself ablaze.
Winters in Bergen is known to be rainy and we are used to rubber boots and umbrellas during the winter so that is not something I would think is out of ordinary. But for me it stands out the place where she was found and the time of year. And how the rubber boots looked like - was it the type you expect a person use in the city or was it more like walking boots I wonder...
i''m referring to the 'Declassified Files Reveal the Isdal Woman’s True Identity' video you asked about in a previous post.
i saw ai or computer generated or something similar in upper left corner early on in the video . however, near the end of the video other uid's were reported as identified spies... listing their names. i can't find any info on any of these uid's nor their reported names. i'm suspicious of anything and everything in that video. if someone finds credible evidence supporting the info in the video... i'll gladly admit being wrong.
jmo
Last edited:
No, as I have said in a earlier post it is not confirmed by the LE and if it had been true it would be all over the media here in Norway. It is one of the oldest mysterie cases and would certainly attract attention... It is only one case here in Norway as far as I know they have used DNA to solve a criminal case and this is not the one.
Similar threads
Staff online
-
TriciaManager Websleuths.com
Online statistics
- Members online
- 142
- Guests online
- 2,344
- Total visitors
- 2,486