Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[ChatteringBirds]

The status of this hotel is exactly why I think this murder was covered up and "suicide" was so quickly decided upon. I honestly feel like the staff discovered her remains early on the Saturday and double locked the room so no one else could enter. They left her there all day until they came up with a plan - that being, the security guard would check on her in the evening, hear a gunshot, wait 15 mins, tell someone what he "heard", and then call the police.
That would line up with the food being in her stomach from the previous night (IF she ate it when it arrived, and why wouldn't she?), and the other guest (upon checkout) being asked if he'd heard anything.
A suicide is a sad and unfortunate occurrence and a crime scene is a PR nightmare.
Having said that, I don't think she was a spy because I think she'd have had rock solid information and documents, but I do believe she was in and out of that other room. I'd love to know who was staying there, what was found, and if housekeeping had cleaned it out. I feel like there are so many cover-ups.

If there was a "plan," why would the security guard need to "wait 15 minutes" before calling police?

And could a person deceased for a day really be mistaken for someone newly deceased? I would think LE could tell the difference, but that's JMO.

 

[GatorFL]

Why is anyone surprised that the Norwegian police did not release cold case files/information to random strangers on the internet? It would be negligible if they did. That hardly makes this the creepiest case ever. No unsolved case is going to flippantly hand out information to strangers.

Back to the case,
I find this one fascinating and will be following it. I hope Norway is able to discover who ‘Jennifer Fergate’ is through a genealogy database and uncover more of her story.

Case files are regulated by local laws. I have had good luck getting both cold case and active case files where I live.

 

[Halijenn]

If there was a "plan," why would the security guard need to "wait 15 minutes" before calling police?

And could a person deceased for a day really be mistaken for someone newly deceased? I would think LE could tell the difference, but that's JMO.

Yes, there's a huge difference between someone who just died and someone who has been gone for a number of hours...I just feel like she didn't die when they said she did and maybe the corruption goes deeper than just the hotel and the police covered it up too. Pure speculation because I believe she was deceased earlier than recorded.

 

[Mireille]

As someone pointed out before. In one image in the documentary, the gun looks significantly more covered in red, than in other pictures. See down below.

These are two images I put side by side to compare. They are taken from slightly different angles. They also have moved the ruler a tiny bit in one of the images. It is a very straight line marking the "Blood" and not blood on the gun, which to me, would be very artificial in such a situation.

There is also a red dot on the blouse in the first image which could indicate there was bloodspatter? There is also something 'red-ish' on the button. Something on the first gun image above, also appears 'red-ish'. Which, in combination with the earlier red-coloured gun, makes her pristine hand, even more odd. Because if there is spatter there, then it also would be some on her hands, surely.

Do I know all of these red spattered/coloured items at a scene with a gunshot to the head to be blood, no. Is it likely, yes. This is nothing more than speculation on my part. The gun has been said was covered in blood.

There is some kind of .....dust? trace? of something a bit to to the left above the button. Just an observation.

The gun she is holding in the image, is the same that is in evidence. There is an odd, unique line (scratch most likely) that is visible on the gun in the image and the image of the gun in evidence.


This leads us nowhere, but the questions of why the image was manipulated stands.
Sources: Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

 

[Mireille]

I think people do not understand that a lack of blood spatter on her trigger hand makes sense, as it was covered by her other hand when she pressed on the gun...and considering the angle with which she shot herself and the angle of the majority of the splatter, it is very possible that she would have no splatter on her hands. She did not shoot herself in the temple standing upright like many people seem to be assuming.

you are acting crazy claiming that there is dust near a button, which could easily be a bubble from developing film photos or some melted film on the photo that was scanned...or Christ, some dust from the scanner when the photo was copied for the net. Nothing in those pictures looks as strange as anyone is making it out to be.

say someone cleaned her hands and part of the gun. Why? What would that accomplish? One gun photo looks ‘bloodier’ because it has more warm hues than the others and some of the metal begins to take an Orange affect.

as far as Norway not releasing information to online amateur investigators, that may be due to regional Norwegian laws. You cannot compare receiving information from one case in the U.S., Korea, England, etc. with another country. The Norway police aren’t really looking to give additional information to conspiracy theorists.

Her other hand, you say may have covered her gun hand was equally as pristine. So that did not seem hit by any spatter either. I am not saying anyone cleaned her hands, I am getting the impression that it is unlikely to have both hands free of blood when you put a bullet through your forehead. To me it looks more likely that she was murdered. I genuinely do not feel that is farfetched at all.

As for what cleaning the gun would accomplish, ruining fingerprints would be one thing someone could accomplish by cleaning or wiping a gun.

Notice the? Mark behind dust and me just pointing out it is an observation? Not even claiming it has any importance whatsoever, merely that, whatever it is, it is there. Even making it clear I am speculating in my post. Right above that image.

What do you believe makes for the very red tip of the gun and then the clear line of colour separation to the handle? It is interesting hearing the views of others.

I have not asked for any files, that was someone else I believe, and I fully understand that they do not hand out that information to the public. They may need to keep it under wraps for investagative purposes.

 

[Vern]

View attachment 301468
As someone pointed out before. In one image in the documentary, the gun looks significantly more covered in red, than in other pictures. See down below.
View attachment 301470
These are two images I put side by side to compare. They are taken from slightly different angles. They also have moved the ruler a tiny bit in one of the images. It is a very straight line marking the "Blood" and not blood on the gun, which to me, would be very artificial in such a situation.

There is also a red dot on the blouse in the first image which could indicate there was bloodspatter? There is also something 'red-ish' on the button. Something on the first gun image above, also appears 'red-ish'. Which, in combination with the earlier red-coloured gun, makes her pristine hand, even more odd. Because if there is spatter there, then it also would be some on her hands, surely.
View attachment 301472 View attachment 301475
Do I know all of these red spattered/coloured items at a scene with a gunshot to the head to be blood, no. Is it likely, yes. This is nothing more than speculation on my part. The gun has been said was covered in blood.
View attachment 301477
There is some kind of .....dust? trace? of something a bit to to the left above the button. Just an observation.

The gun she is holding in the image, is the same that is in evidence. There is an odd, unique line (scratch most likely) that is visible on the gun in the image and the image of the gun in evidence.
View attachment 301479View attachment 301480

This leads us nowhere, but the questions of why the image was manipulated stands.
Sources: Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

Digital cameras were the new go-to technology then and images were sent to giant-butt floppies. LOL . So was the abilty to change the lighting etc on them once you stuck them in the floppy drive. Suspect that someone simply saved the photos (because they are both obviously the same photo) in an attempt to enhance. Both versions were saved.

We've come a long way since then with digital imaging.

 

[OliverCromwell]

Another thing I wanted to point out was her check in card “rue de la station / stehde”

I have my own theory on that one too;

In German they use the noun for “street” as “straBe”. I figure she was about to write “straBe” then clued in that she had to use Belgium as an address so finished it as “station” when half way thru writing it.
You can sense the urgency and panic in her writing right after “station / straBe” & I also think that’s why it’s written differently than a traditional Belgium address line. (Using 148 after). The only thing the check in card shows me, is that she’s German. Country area codes are easy to remember & that’s all you would really need. ‍

I researched on this earlier, including search appeals on Facebook and having the local press involved. I found 2 streets in Germany, having "Stehde" included in their names. The cities are located very close to each other but unfortunately there was no result on the searches.

 

[Marantz4250b]

the idea that this busy hotel covered up a murder is really far-fetched. The hotel did not rule her death a suicide, the police did. As for the theory that she died on Saturday, the crime scene photos show a very recently shot person. The blood was still red and runny. The security guard was a 24 year old College student, the hotel cannot trust him to cooperate or take this secret to his grave. Everyone keeps acting as if this temp guard at a hotel was the head of National Norway security. He was a college kid who probably couldn’t care less about his job. It would not ingratiate the hotel, or the staff, to cover up the murder as a suicide...and it isn’t even anything they have autonomy over. That would be the police.

another point, if police mistake a murder for a suicide...that does not automatically mean it is part of a grand conspiracy cover-up.

she may be unclaimed, because she was shunned by her family. (maybe they were Jehovah’s like the case with Lyle Stevic and she left the religion, who knows?). Maybe she was a prostitute.

as for the food she ordered on Saturday being freshly eaten in her system, remember that her hotel room included a mini-fridge where she probably stored the food. She could have, especially if depressed, taken a few bites and changed her mind and saved it for later. (While I do think this was most likely a tragic suicide, the police should have tested the food for sedatives and gotten any camera footage.) some of the ideas on this thread are a Stone’s throw away from aliens in ufos.

Agreed entirely. I'm not overly keen to get myself another temporary ban for "snarky comments" so I'll try to moderate my words, but the idea that the hotel covered this up themselves for "PR" purposes is ridiculous for all the reasons you mention. Why on earth would a prestigious high-class hotel decide to commit a raft of very serious criminal offences for what amount to publicity reasons? I don't know what the Norwegian equivalent is but the main charge here (UK) would be conspiracy to pervert the cause of justice and that can result in a seriously long sentence. I doubt that Norway is much different. There will be numerous other offences related to it too. What hotel manager is going to go along with that when the fall-out of being caught (which they inevitably would be) is far worse than having a murder in your hotel? It's hardly good PR either as, from a traveller's point of view, which would you rather stay in - a hotel which once had a murder in it or a hotel where the staff were covering up murders? I mean, that theory makes it sound like the Continental from John Wick!

The theory also completely ignores any sort of human decency or compassion. Who on earth ignores a murder on their premises for public relations reasons and leaves the body of a young woman lying there (along with an illegal firearm and ammunition) whilst they concoct some ridiculous scheme to cover up what they think might be a murder? Let alone multiple people all of a similar mind which is what the theory requires.

On top of all that there simply is not one single shred of evidence to support the theory. Nothing at all.

She killed herself. It really is that simple. There is a tiny possibility that she may have been murdered but, given the evidence it's vanishingly small.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Digital cameras were the new go-to technology then and images were sent to giant-butt floppies. LOL . So was the abilty to change the lighting etc on them once you stuck them in the floppy drive. Suspect that someone simply saved the photos (because they are both obviously the same photo) in an attempt to enhance. Both versions were saved.

We've come a long way since then with digital imaging.

As I've said previously, I'm not convinced they were digital camera pics. I think someone else here has said they look more like conventional 35mm pictures. That's not to say they haven't been digitally manipulated at some point but I think the originals were taken on film.

 

[JuicyLucy]

The theory also completely ignores any sort of human decency or compassion. Who on earth ignores a murder on their premises for public relations reasons and leaves the body of a young woman lying there (along with an illegal firearm and ammunition) whilst they concoct some ridiculous scheme to cover up what they think might be a murder? Let alone multiple people all of a similar mind which is what the theory requires.

SBM

I don't think for one minute this was a cover-up by the hotel, but if you think there aren't numerous examples of murders where multiple people apparently conspired to delay calling police/paramedics while they concocted a cover story as to what had happened, often maintaining that cover story successfully for years, then you haven't been keeping up. I could name a very current, high profile case where every appearance suggests exactly that but, just as you don't fancy a ban, I don't fancy a libel suit. When it finally goes sub judice, we can clink glasses.

I think it's unquestionable that there's been some kind of cover up in this case. The discrepancies between the different crime scene photos make that pretty clear imo - unless the forensic process was extraordinarily inept for the PD of a European capital city. The only unclear thing is who was controlling that cover up. In my opinion, the age of the case would ordinarily have made it a candidate for review by now - particularly if the investigation was demonstrably inept - unless it was flagged to be left well alone. What overarching authority would have exercised their ability to do that is the key question for me, but, by definition, we're unlikely ever to find that out unless they change their position.

JMO

 

[GatorFL]

As I've said previously, I'm not convinced they were digital camera pics. I think someone else here has said they look more like conventional 35mm pictures. That's not to say they haven't been digitally manipulated at some point but I think the originals were taken on film.

They look like Polaroids to me. I know for a fact PD's were using Polaroids into the late 90's. Oslo, not sure about. But they're not hi-res digital or even hi-res 35mm.

 

[Marantz4250b]

SBM

I don't think for one minute this was a cover-up by the hotel, but if you think there aren't numerous examples of murders where multiple people apparently conspired to delay calling police/paramedics while they concocted a cover story as to what had happened, often maintaining that cover story successfully for years, then you haven't been keeping up. I could name a very current, high profile case where every appearance suggests exactly that but, just as you don't fancy a ban, I don't fancy a libel suit. When it finally goes sub judice, we can clink glasses.

I think it's unquestionable that there's been some kind of cover up in this case. The discrepancies between the different crime scene photos make that pretty clear imo - unless the forensic process was extraordinarily inept for the PD of a European capital city. The only unclear thing is who was controlling that cover up. In my opinion, the age of the case would ordinarily have made it a candidate for review by now - particularly if the investigation was demonstrably inept - unless it was flagged to be left well alone. What overarching authority would have exercised their ability to do that is the key question for me, but, by definition, we're unlikely ever to find that out unless they change their position.

JMO

I wasn't suggesting that murders never get covered up, just that the particular theory proposed here clearly didn't happen. When murders, or other serious crimes, are covered up it's generally to deflect the blame from particular individuals. I'm not aware of many murders with circumstances like this one which have been covered up simply to protect the reputation of a hotel, and certainly none which would require multiple people to conspire where none of them had any particular incentive to do so.

Neither do I go with the suggestion that it's "unquestionable" that some kind of cover up may have taken place. If there has been any sort of cover up/conspiracy I'd suggest that it's more to do with perhaps covering up a less than perfect investigation rather than covering up a murder to make it appear as a suicide. The Netflix documentary interviewed the police officer in charge of it all along with various other people. The journalist who wrote the original Norwegian article seems to have had a lot of support and information from the police. Why would this be the case if they were trying to hide the fact that they'd disguised a murder as a suicide? They'd be saying nothing, surely?

Your point of not wanting a libel suit is a valid one. On that issue, people should think carefully before making baseless posts which accuse hotel staff of tampering with evidence and perverting justice.

 

[Marantz4250b]

They look like Polaroids to me. I know for a fact PD's were using Polaroids into the late 90's. Oslo, not sure about. But they're not hi-res digital or even hi-res 35mm.

These are reasonable statements. You may well be correct. It may be that both were used and that the Polaroids were the ones released. It would seem reasonable to use both as processing 35mm would obviously have taken a few hours.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I wasn't suggesting that murders never get covered up, just that the particular theory proposed here clearly didn't happen. When murders, or other serious crimes, are covered up it's generally to deflect the blame from particular individuals. I'm not aware of many murders with circumstances like this one which have been covered up simply to protect the reputation of a hotel, and certainly none which would require multiple people to conspire where none of them had any particular incentive to do so.

Neither do I go with the suggestion that it's "unquestionable" that some kind of cover up may have taken place. If there has been any sort of cover up/conspiracy I'd suggest that it's more to do with perhaps covering up a less than perfect investigation rather than covering up a murder to make it appear as a suicide. The Netflix documentary interviewed the police officer in charge of it all along with various other people. The journalist who wrote the original Norwegian article seems to have had a lot of support and information from the police. Why would this be the case if they were trying to hide the fact that they'd disguised a murder as a suicide? They'd be saying nothing, surely?

Your point of not wanting a libel suit is a valid one. On that issue, people should think carefully before making baseless posts which accuse hotel staff of tampering with evidence and perverting justice.

You said:

The theory also completely ignores any sort of human decency or compassion. Who on earth ignores a murder on their premises for public relations reasons and leaves the body of a young woman lying there (along with an illegal firearm and ammunition) whilst they concoct some ridiculous scheme to cover up what they think might be a murder? Let alone multiple people all of a similar mind which is what the theory requires.

You've said you are in the UK. It's almost inconceivable you're unaware of a current case that allegedly contains the italicised elements. Not a hotel, I'll grant you, but then I agree it's unlikely that's what happened in this hotel either.

The rest we'll have to agree to disagree on. If what was being covered up was an imperfect investigation, the photos that show clearly that the primary crime scene was tampered with would have been suppressed, not carelessly made available. So obviously what is being suppressed - and is reflected in some way we've so far been unable to parse just by looking at those photos - is something else. All of that tells you (a) that there's been some funny business going on from day 1 in this case and (b) that whatever else LE are sensitive about, it's not their investigation.

JMHO

 

[JuicyLucy]

Would you be able to PM me @Beekarina?

 

[pattilupwned]

Does anyone else sense from the artist impressions/autopsy photos that she may have been mentally retarded/learning disabled? Perhaps being used/exploited on account of her simplicity. She looks "slow on the uptake".

Had she been at school/university surely a classmate would have recognised her.

 

[GatorFL]

Does anyone else sense from the artist impressions/autopsy photos that she may have been mentally retarded/learning disabled? Perhaps being used/exploited on account of her simplicity. She looks "slow on the uptake".

Had she been at school/university surely a classmate would have recognised her.

Reconstructions are all over the place, especially back then before they were done digitally. Keep in mind the autopsy photo is after a mortician repaired her forehead. There are also after-death changes to a face, particularly in the fullness, which has also altered her appearance.

ETA: There are some interesting digital reconstructions of her out there if you search.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Does anyone else sense from the artist impressions/autopsy photos that she may have been mentally retarded/learning disabled? Perhaps being used/exploited on account of her simplicity. She looks "slow on the uptake".

Had she been at school/university surely a classmate would have recognised her.

When she checked in, the hotel staff said: ""Jennifer" spoke fluent German and English." I don't think that would be considered "slow on the uptake".

Source
1420UFNOR

 

[Leigy]

She made reservations, checked into the hotel, paid for a stay in cash, and ordered food. With all of the interviews that the hotel staff have given they surely would have mentioned if she seemed “slow.”

I don’t understand how someone can look at the few photos we have of her post-mortem and come to that assumption.

 

[azure]

She made reservations, checked into the hotel, paid for a stay in cash, and ordered food. With all of the interviews that the hotel staff have given they surely would have mentioned if she seemed “slow.”

I don’t understand how someone can look at the few photos we have of her post-mortem and come to that assumption.

She did not pay for the stay at all. That's one of the most important details of the case.