NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 8

[Fairy1]

In their culture, being "here" might mean just the opposite of caring.

I can't really speak to that, but even if they don't feel comfortable being here, where are they? What are they doing to find Steven?

 

[laytonian]

I can't really speak to that, but even if they don't feel comfortable being here, where are they? What are they doing to find Steven?

We don't know, and they (obviously) don't think it's any of our business anymore.
I wonder if people are also criticizing Chuck Cox for "not doing enough", because he made his first visit to Utah's west desert within the past two weeks?

A couple of weeks ago, Jaxon promised us a story. That hasn't materialized, either.

Maybe it's time we all just dropped this, since there's no news? I'm at a loss.

 

[RubyRed]

We don't know, and they (obviously) don't think it's any of our business anymore.
I wonder if people are also criticizing Chuck Cox for "not doing enough", because he made his first visit to Utah's west desert within the past two weeks?

A couple of weeks ago, Jaxon promised us a story. That hasn't materialized, either.

Maybe it's time we all just dropped this, since there's no news? I'm at a loss.

To be honest, I have found the SP, family a bit strange. None of her sister's have spoken out. Sk's siblings seem extremely quiet. It seems to me that they all have the attitude " whatever will be, will be" It is like they are all cloned to not speak in a derogatory manner of anyone. Is there not a rebel amongst any of them? This is just my opinion , however, I find it strange. They are acting the opposite of how I would react.

 

[carbuff]

Every time I say I think Steven had something going on in his life that his parents and friends didn't know about, I get the whole, "He's too honest to have had a double life," or "he's not smart enough to carry off a double life," but I'm not talking about a double life. I just mean something he didn't talk about -- maybe they weren't interested, maybe they didn't want to see it, maybe he just didn't mention it. Maybe it was too personal or painful to be talked about. Maybe he tried and they didn't listen.

It might not even been an activity. It might have been concerns about sexuality -- not just orientation, but also interests, practices, whatever. It might have been a spiritual question. Around here, Catholics are having spiritual crises related to the clergy abuse scandal, to birth control, to abortion. I don't know what comparable issues a devout Mormon might run into. Maybe somebody died -- not even necessarily somebody close to him, but somebody who symbolized hope or truth or integrity or whatever to him.

When you start to question a major tenet of your faith, whether that's the authority of the priesthood or the nature of sexual orientation, you tend to overreact at first. You tend not to see that you might find accommodation within your church. In many denominations, questioning is in itself a bad thing and the person with the questions is a bad person. You find yourself thinking, "Wait a minute. My church, the church I have loved and followed all my life, thinks I am an Evil Person."

You can find yourself thinking, "I know I'm not evil. Somebody is evil, and it must be the church," and reject everything to do with it, including the family that holds you there. Or you can find yourself thinking, "If I'm that evil, then I may as well go for the ultimate evil and kill myself." Possibly you alternate between the two, as I did.

My own crisis was over sexual orientation. Hypocrisy of the church I belonged to at the time meant at the time of my greatest need, I couldn't get the help I sought. (When you go in for counseling and the first thing the counselor does is pray for forgiveness for your evil thoughts, you know it ain't gonna work.) I left the church in an anger so deep it still hasn't gone away 20 years later. If I had not had three kids at home, I would have left. Just left everything and walked out. I nearly did anyway.

I think that's what Steven did. I don't know what crisis caused him to go, but all the data fits. He left everything, left his car where it would be found and returned to his family, took only the minimum. The fact that he went to Vegas instead of leaving from St. George makes me concerned that he wanted to leave permanently and make sure the family wouldn't be the ones to find the body. But maybe he just left for someplace else. "Took a midnight train going anywhere," as the old song says.

Does the LDS church have anything corresponding to monasteries or retreat centers?

 

[Fairy1]

We don't know, and they (obviously) don't think it's any of our business anymore.
I wonder if people are also criticizing Chuck Cox for "not doing enough", because he made his first visit to Utah's west desert within the past two weeks?

A couple of weeks ago, Jaxon promised us a story. That hasn't materialized, either.

Maybe it's time we all just dropped this, since there's no news? I'm at a loss.

IMO, the Cox family has a fine line to walk. I feel certain they know that Josh murdered Susan. The problem is that he still has those little boys and I'm sure they want to be sure they remain safe until Josh is charged. Seems pretty obvious to me what Josh is capable of. It's been frustrating not to see any real searches for Susan, but I honestly don't think they know where to begin and the weather conditions haven't been ideal pretty much since she disappeared.

If Steven's family wants us to go away, they can say so, just as they came here seeking assistance. I will respect their wishes.

 

[Fairy1]

Every time I say I think Steven had something going on in his life that his parents and friends didn't know about, I get the whole, "He's too honest to have had a double life," or "he's not smart enough to carry off a double life," but I'm not talking about a double life. I just mean something he didn't talk about -- maybe they weren't interested, maybe they didn't want to see it, maybe he just didn't mention it. Maybe it was too personal or painful to be talked about. Maybe he tried and they didn't listen.

It might not even been an activity. It might have been concerns about sexuality -- not just orientation, but also interests, practices, whatever. It might have been a spiritual question. Around here, Catholics are having spiritual crises related to the clergy abuse scandal, to birth control, to abortion. I don't know what comparable issues a devout Mormon might run into. Maybe somebody died -- not even necessarily somebody close to him, but somebody who symbolized hope or truth or integrity or whatever to him.

When you start to question a major tenet of your faith, whether that's the authority of the priesthood or the nature of sexual orientation, you tend to overreact at first. You tend not to see that you might find accommodation within your church. In many denominations, questioning is in itself a bad thing and the person with the questions is a bad person. You find yourself thinking, "Wait a minute. My church, the church I have loved and followed all my life, thinks I am an Evil Person."

You can find yourself thinking, "I know I'm not evil. Somebody is evil, and it must be the church," and reject everything to do with it, including the family that holds you there. Or you can find yourself thinking, "If I'm that evil, then I may as well go for the ultimate evil and kill myself." Possibly you alternate between the two, as I did.

My own crisis was over sexual orientation. Hypocrisy of the church I belonged to at the time meant at the time of my greatest need, I couldn't get the help I sought. (When you go in for counseling and the first thing the counselor does is pray for forgiveness for your evil thoughts, you know it ain't gonna work.) I left the church in an anger so deep it still hasn't gone away 20 years later. If I had not had three kids at home, I would have left. Just left everything and walked out. I nearly did anyway.

I think that's what Steven did. I don't know what crisis caused him to go, but all the data fits. He left everything, left his car where it would be found and returned to his family, took only the minimum. The fact that he went to Vegas instead of leaving from St. George makes me concerned that he wanted to leave permanently and make sure the family wouldn't be the ones to find the body. But maybe he just left for someplace else. "Took a midnight train going anywhere," as the old song says.

Does the LDS church have anything corresponding to monasteries or retreat centers?

I tend to agree with this theory, carbuff. It doesn't seem Steven really had anyone close to him outside of family and church. If he was questioning his faith or sexuality, would either of those choices have been a safe harbor?

 

[laytonian]

IMO, the Cox family has a fine line to walk. I feel certain they know that Josh murdered Susan. The problem is that he still has those little boys and I'm sure they want to be sure they remain safe until Josh is charged. Seems pretty obvious to me what Josh is capable of. It's been frustrating not to see any real searches for Susan, but I honestly don't think they know where to begin and the weather conditions haven't been ideal pretty much since she disappeared.

If Steven's family wants us to go away, they can say so, just as they came here seeking assistance. I will respect their wishes.

They didn't come here seeking assistance. Here's Naegle's first Websleuths posting.

We have good hearts, good intentions, but sometimes things *are* upsetting.

 

[laytonian]

It might not even been an activity. It might have been concerns about sexuality -- not just orientation, but also interests, practices, whatever. It might have been a spiritual question. Around here, Catholics are having spiritual crises related to the clergy abuse scandal, to birth control, to abortion. I don't know what comparable issues a devout Mormon might run into. Maybe somebody died -- not even necessarily somebody close to him, but somebody who symbolized hope or truth or integrity or whatever to him.

Very wise words, thank you.

The LDS Church has been going through the same thing. Less publicized, but the same thing. In many ways, it's similar to the Catholic church in that all leaders are male, with women in subservent roles. Seminary teachers, bishops, one of our LDS state legislators and a 15-year-old girl, scout leaders, big brothers, etc.

It's all been handled "internally" rather than through law enforcement, until people get so angry they can't see straight. The Portland case, from what I understand, is predicted to shake loose a lot of old cases and religious settlements.

Does the LDS church have anything corresponding to monasteries or retreat centers?

Not really. The closest would be the Missionary Training Center (where people go to learn a language and how to be a missionary); that lasts only a few weeks.

 

[laytonian]

I tend to agree with this theory, carbuff. It doesn't seem Steven really had anyone close to him outside of family and church. If he was questioning his faith or sexuality, would either of those choices have been a safe harbor?

There are outside organizations available to help: Affirmation is the largest I'm aware of. Obviously not sanctioned by the church.

The LDS Church view, at present, is that there's nothing wrong with being gay but you must be celibate and not engage in a relationship.

 

[RubyRed]

On the " How I Know Steven" a person has come forward and said Steven visited his Mom, in St George ,while job hunting. Thinks it was sometime before the holidays.

page 2

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=225335012614&topic=25641#topic_top

 

[carbuff]

There are outside organizations available to help: Affirmation is the largest I'm aware of. Obviously not sanctioned by the church.

The LDS Church view, at present, is that there's nothing wrong with being gay but you must be celibate and not engage in a relationship.

That would help if his issues were related to sexual orientation. But where would he go if his issues were over the abuse of women, or the authority of the church leadership, or the corrupt lifestyle going on all around him -- for instance, if he knew church leaders who were going to Vegas regularly for gambling and prostitutes? What would have happened if he confronted somebody?

If he left a job over issues of worldliness, would he leave the church over the same issues? And where would he go?

 

[laytonian]

That would help if his issues were related to sexual orientation. But where would he go if his issues were over the abuse of women, or the authority of the church leadership, or the corrupt lifestyle going on all around him -- for instance, if he knew church leaders who were going to Vegas regularly for gambling and prostitutes? What would have happened if he confronted somebody?

If he left a job over issues of worldliness, would he leave the church over the same issues? And where would he go?

The only channel is "talk to your bishop".

IF he still believed the church was true and his testimony was still strong, he could easily change wards (ie, start attending the family ward, instead of the singles ward -- he was near the age to do that.)

But if he handled "I saw people doing bad things" like he handled his roomie's eating his food or pot smoking (telling the landlord and/or his parents), he could get himself into a major problem.

Ya know....all that driving around. Do you think he was following people? Ruby Valley took him through Wendover and Wells (both minor gambling meccas). Mesquite, Overton, Vegas on the 12th and 13th.

 

[laytonian]

On the " How I Know Steven" a person has come forward and said Steven visited his Mom, in St George ,while job hunting. Thinks it was sometime before the holidays.

page 2

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=225335012614&topic=25641#topic_top

I mentioned that to Naegle, in my email a few days ago (telling her that there were at least two healthy men on the FB page willing to help....but no reply).
Just in case she hadn't seen it.

 

[webrocket]

whatever happened to the guy who messaged and said he knew Steven was gay? any more info?

 

[Fairy1]

The only channel is "talk to your bishop".

IF he still believed the church was true and his testimony was still strong, he could easily change wards (ie, start attending the family ward, instead of the singles ward -- he was near the age to do that.)

But if he handled "I saw people doing bad things" like he handled his roomie's eating his food or pot smoking (telling the landlord and/or his parents), he could get himself into a major problem.

Ya know....all that driving around. Do you think he was following people? Ruby Valley took him through Wendover and Wells (both minor gambling meccas). Mesquite, Overton, Vegas on the 12th and 13th.

Good food for thought. Possible the enemy was much closer than we imagined. And it would explain a lot of what has (or hasn't!) happened since Steven disappeared.

 

[Fairy1]

They didn't come here seeking assistance. Here's Naegle's first Websleuths posting.

We have good hearts, good intentions, but sometimes things *are* upsetting.

IIRC, there were several subsequent posts asking for our help with one thing or another. And that's what we're here for! By the same token, Naegle has never been shy about taking us to task when she didn't care for the direction of the discussion. That's fine too. I'm just saying, if they have knowledge they don't want to share with the world and want us here to drop it, all they have to do is say so.

 

[ThePhantom]

I wish they would inform us of any enlightening information. It makes searching even more difficult when there is information that could be made available but just isn't. After all, the only goal of WS is to find out what happened and help bring about justice if someone has been victimized. And I know there are many on this board who have gone above and beyond the call of duty to help find out what happened to this young man.

 

[carbuff]

The only channel is "talk to your bishop".

IF he still believed the church was true and his testimony was still strong, he could easily change wards (ie, start attending the family ward, instead of the singles ward -- he was near the age to do that.)

But if he handled "I saw people doing bad things" like he handled his roomie's eating his food or pot smoking (telling the landlord and/or his parents), he could get himself into a major problem.

Ya know....all that driving around. Do you think he was following people? Ruby Valley took him through Wendover and Wells (both minor gambling meccas). Mesquite, Overton, Vegas on the 12th and 13th.

I wonder if that was why he went to visit the N's -- looking for advice about a situation? If he had an issue with somebody in the church hierarchy, that would explain why nobody wants to talk about it. Even leaving aside issues of deference to authority, etc., other people's privacy would be involved.

 

[Canyon1]

They are not commenting as they are more concerned with appearances than with reality. They would rather believe he was the victim of foul play than the alternative. Keep in mind they never did reveal what was on his computer hard drive other than issuing a self serving statement that the hard drive did "not reveal why he was in Henderson that day".

I was clear to me from day one he walked out on his former so-called life. No job, no wife, no children, behind on his rent, living in a closed LDS society where he played the role of a zealot (god said the girl was not right for me), etc. That is a perfect facade for explaining why the guy was not married and some of his former cohorts might actually have believed that fiction. The real reasons he was not married was because he had NOTHING to offer a prospective wife. The guy could not hold down a job. Not exactly husband material folks.

These people he used to associate with closed rank when Steven disappeared and almost none express any concern for Steven. Not exactly the type of people I would want to call friends. Maybe Steven had an epiphany of a sort and realized that he could not be who he wanted to be and have these people in my life.

It is beyond frustrating that we have had countless entries on these threads by ordinary citizens expressing concern for Steven yet those closest to him either don't get involved, sign on but share no information, or just vanish when they get some LDS pressure to clam up.

I really hope Steven is happy with whomever he has chosen to spend his life with. A stranger on the internet is likely to provide him more happiness than the uncaring stone cold crowd he left behind in St. George.

With all due respect, these statements that I have bolded are stated as fact, yet are sheer speculation. Just because his friends and family are not on here tossing around theories and expressing concern absolutely doesn't mean that they are not doing it in ways of which we are not aware. Maybe his friends and associates feel they can contribute more in another fashion. This is not the only outlet for support and concern for Steven.

I also have to ask just who in the LDS church is putting the thumb screws to the people who have gotten involved in this forum? Could it be that they vanish because they feel like they have nothing more to add or contribute? Could it be that no new information is forthcoming simply because there is none to be had, not because of some vast conspiracy of silence?

I completely share everyone's frustration that no one seems closer to finding Steven than we were the day after he disappeared. I have run the gamut of what I think happened to him; I can't follow ONE single theory through without reservation. I truly don't know where to go from here. Pointing the finger of blame when we don't have a clear idea of what's really being done seems counterproductive though. At this point it's entirely possible that everyone's in the same boat. Maybe none of us knows where to go from here.

 

[Fairy1]

With all due respect, these statements that I have bolded are stated as fact, yet are sheer speculation. Just because his friends and family are not on here tossing around theories and expressing concern absolutely doesn't mean that they are not doing it in ways of which we are not aware. Maybe his friends and associates feel they can contribute more in another fashion. This is not the only outlet for support and concern for Steven.

I also have to ask just who in the LDS church is putting the thumb screws to the people who have gotten involved in this forum? Could it be that they vanish because they feel like they have nothing more to add or contribute? Could it be that no new information is forthcoming simply because there is none to be had, not because of some vast conspiracy of silence?

I completely share everyone's frustration that no one seems closer to finding Steven than we were the day after he disappeared. I have run the gamut of what I think happened to him; I can't follow ONE single theory through without reservation. I truly don't know where to go from here. Pointing the finger of blame when we don't have a clear idea of what's really being done seems counterproductive though. At this point it's entirely possible that everyone's in the same boat. Maybe none of us knows where to go from here.

I understand where you're coming from Canyon1 - I really do. But if Steven's friends and family are doing anything elsewhere to find him, I haven't been able to find any evidence of it. Have you looked at the Facebook? It moves at a snail's pace and NO ONE has a plan other than prayer. So far, that hasn't helped to find this man.

This is a discussion board. It's not always going to be pleasant, but that is the nature of it. Until there is some clear direction, every possibility should be explored. I understand the theory of the hierarchy of the church being involved is an ugly theory, but it sure would explain a lot. If you think about it.

Yes, we're quite possibly all in the same boat with nothing more to go on. Then again, maybe that's not the case. The bottom line is, Steven Koecher is still missing and I, for one, care. I have come to feel protective of him and I want him to be okay.