NY - $250m fraud against Former President Donald Trump, Trump Org., Eric, Donald Jr., Sept 2022, Trial 2 Oct 2023, #2

  • #261
  • #262
Tuesday, November 28th:
*Bench Trial continues (Day 35) (@ 10am ET) – NY - New York vs. Donald J. Trump (76/now 77), Donald Trump, Jr. (45) & Eric Trump (38/now 39) & the Trump Organization, Inc. (Allen Weisselberg (75/now 76) & Jeffrey McConney) are being sued by Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who is leading a civil investigation (which cannot result in criminal charges filed on 9/21/22) & has spent years looking at whether the company committed various acts of fraud over several decades. In the civil case, Ms. James has filed a lawsuit against Trump & two of his children accusing them of "astounding" fraud & deception.
New York is seeking $250 million in financial penalties & asked the court to ban Trump, Donald Trump Jr. & Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director in any corporation registered or licensed in New York. James also requested the court ban the former president & his business from acquiring real estate in New York or from applying for loans from any New York financial institution for five years. James's civil case accuses Trump of lying from 2011 to 2021 about asset values at the Trump Organization, as well as his own net worth, in order to obtain better terms from lenders & insurers.
Lawsuit against: Donald John Trump, Donald Trump, Jr, Eric Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organization, Inc., Trump Organization LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holinds Managing Memer, Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post of Fice LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC & Seven Springs LLC.
All charges against Ivanka Trump were dismissed in June, 2023.
Bench Trial began on 10/2/23. Prosecutors rested their case on 11/8/23. Defense began their case on 11/13/23. (could last until 12/22/23 per Judge).
The lawsuit’s remaining 6 counts allege similar acts of fraud (that Trump inflated his assets on statements of financial condition that he submitted to banks & insurers for personal gain).
Judge Arthur F. Engoron presiding / NY State Attorney General Leticia James & senior enforcement counsel Kevin Wallace, Defense attorney Christopher Kise & Jesus Suarez & Alina Habba for Trump, Weisselberg & the rest of the defendants for Trump Org. / Clifford Robert of Robert & Robert PLLC for Donald, Jr. & Eric.
New York appellate court temporarily paused gag orders on Thursday, 11/16/23 & NY AG Letitia James & representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday, 11/22/23 to file a response to the appellate judge's stay of the limited gag order imposed last month on Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge's order. Trump's reply is then due on 11/27/23 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December.

Case & court info & Summary Judgement from 9/21/22 thru 9/28/23 & Bench Trial Day 1-33 (10/2-11/21/23) reference post #260 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-13

Additional information: 11/22/23 Update: An attorney for Judge Arthur Engoron also filed in support of the gag order in Trump's civil fraud trial, arguing that violent threats have increased since the gag order was lifted. Engoron's filing includes a report from Charles Hollon of the Judicial Threats Assessment Unit of the New York State Court System's Dept. of Public Safety. According to the report, Engoron & his principal law clerk, Allison Greenfield, have been inundated with credible, violent & anti-Semitic threats since Trump began criticizing Greenfield. "The threats against Justice Engoron & Ms. Greenfield are considered to be serious & credible & not hypothetical or speculative," Hollon wrote in the report. Engoron's lawyer, Lisa Evans, said the threats detailed in Hollon's affirmation justify the gag order, which functions as a reasonable limit on free speech. "The First Amendment does not prohibit courts from limiting speech that threatens the safety of the court's staff," Evans wrote. Trump's reply to the filing is due on Nov. 27, after which the First Dept. will decide whether to fully lift the gag order.
11/27/23 Update: Trump's lawyers, in a court filing this morning, doubled down on their criticism of the trial's limited gag order while distancing Trump Y his co-defendants from what they called the "vile & reprehensible" threats against Judge Arthur Engoron & his principal law clerk. In a filing arguing against the limited gag order, defense lawyer Clifford Robert said that the attacks -- which he said Trump neither condoned nor directed -- do not justify the gag order's unconstitutional restraint on Trump's free speech.
11/27/23 Monday, Bench Trial Day 34: Defense witnesses: Mark Hawthorn, Trump Hotels' chief financial officer. Patrick Birney, an assistant vice president at the Trump Organization.
Trump's lawyers plan to call former federal Judge Barbara Jones -- who has served as the Trump Organization's independent monitor since 2022 -- as a witness for the defense case, according to defense attorney Clifford Robert. Jones was installed as the firm's independent monitor last November at the request of NY AG Letitia James. Though Jones was not originally included in the defense's witness list, Robert flagged the change to the court near the end of the direct examination of Trump Hotels chief operating officer Mark Hawthorn. Robert did not provide a timeline for when Jones might testify & state attorney Andrew Amer reserved a right to object to the defense team calling Jones as a witness.
Judge Arthur Engoron blocked the defense team's plan to call the Trump Organization's independent monitor, describing the last-minute change to the defense's witness list as "untimely" & "inappropriate." Engoron said that he determined that Jones & her staff are effectively "arms of the court" & thus cannot be called to testify.
For more info see post #261 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14
Asked to confirm the final witnesses for the defense's case, defense attorney Chris Kise said that Trump is likely to testify on 12/11/23. Eric Trump will also return to the witness stand on 12/6/23.
Court was adjourned for the day following Birney's testimony. He is set to return to the witness stand later this week after the court hears from witnesses from Deutsche Bank.
Bench Trial continues on Tuesday, 11/28/23.
 
  • #263
There is some exceedingly slow grinding to justice, I know, but it really is happening. The witnesses in his upcoming trials are Republicans. Three if his co defendants in another criminal case, all formally his lawyers, have already plead guilty, and agreed to testify against him. One of his own defence witnesses in the civil fraud case cried on the stand and he provided documentary evidence contradicting the defence assertion that the fraud, uncontested in fact, had nothing to do with any of the Trumps. In applying to have the temporary stay on the gag order dropped, prosecutors in New York provided a list of several hundred pages long of threats received by the law clerk in the New York case.A large drop in GOP election donations has been attributed the Trump's legal drama's, and incredible legal costs.
 
  • #264
  • #265
Wednesday, November 29th:
*Bench Trial continues (Day 36) (@ 10am ET) – NY - New York vs. Donald J. Trump (76/now 77), Donald Trump, Jr. (45) & Eric Trump (38/now 39) & the Trump Organization, Inc. (Allen Weisselberg (75/now 76) & Jeffrey McConney) are being sued by Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who is leading a civil investigation (which cannot result in criminal charges filed on 9/21/22) & has spent years looking at whether the company committed various acts of fraud over several decades. In the civil case, Ms. James has filed a lawsuit against Trump & two of his children accusing them of "astounding" fraud & deception.
New York is seeking $250 million in financial penalties & asked the court to ban Trump, Donald Trump Jr. & Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director in any corporation registered or licensed in New York. James also requested the court ban the former president & his business from acquiring real estate in New York or from applying for loans from any New York financial institution for five years. James's civil case accuses Trump of lying from 2011 to 2021 about asset values at the Trump Organization, as well as his own net worth, in order to obtain better terms from lenders & insurers.
Lawsuit against: Donald John Trump, Donald Trump, Jr, Eric Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organization, Inc., Trump Organization LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holinds Managing Memer, Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post of Fice LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC & Seven Springs LLC.
All charges against Ivanka Trump were dismissed in June, 2023.
Bench Trial began on 10/2/23. Prosecutors rested their case on 11/8/23. Defense began their case on 11/13/23. (could last until 12/22/23 per Judge).
The lawsuit’s remaining 6 counts allege similar acts of fraud (that Trump inflated his assets on statements of financial condition that he submitted to banks & insurers for personal gain).
Judge Arthur F. Engoron presiding / NY State Attorney General Leticia James & senior enforcement counsel Kevin Wallace, Defense attorney Christopher Kise & Jesus Suarez & Alina Habba for Trump, Weisselberg & the rest of the defendants for Trump Org. / Clifford Robert of Robert & Robert PLLC for Donald, Jr. & Eric.
New York appellate court temporarily paused gag orders on Thursday, 11/16/23 & NY AG Letitia James & representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday, 11/22/23 to file a response to the appellate judge's stay of the limited gag order imposed last month on Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge's order. Trump's reply is then due on 11/27/23 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December.

Case & court info & Summary Judgement from 9/21/22 thru 9/28/23 & Bench Trial Day 1-34 (10/2-11/27/23) reference post #262 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14

11/28/23 Tuesday, Trial Day 35: Defense witnesses: The managing director of Deutsche Bank Dave Williams. Former Deutsche Bank vice president Emily Pereless.
Defense attorney Christopher Kise requested Judge Engoron issue a directed verdict at the conclusion of testimony from Deutsche Bank managing director Dave Williams -- marking the third time the defense has asked the judge to stop the proceedings and decide the case in their favor.
Judge Engoron took the defense's motion under advisement but signaled he was unmoved.
Trump's attorneys said they planned to shorten their remaining direct examination when Pereless returns to the stand tomorrow.
For more info see post #264 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14
Bench Trial continues on Wednesday, 11/29/23.
 
  • #266
Former President Donald Trump and his co-defendants in his civil fraud trial are under "enhanced monitoring" after failing to disclose three transfers of cash adding up to roughly $40 million, a letter made public on Wednesday reveals.

Those unreported transfers included $29 million to the former president for tax payments, insurance premiums, and a $5.5 million cash payment in lieu of a bond allowing Trump to appeal the E. Jean Carroll sexual assault judgment, according to the filing.

In a three-page letter, Jones itemized some transfers that she says slipped through the cracks.

We have discussed with Defendants why these transactions were not previously disclosed and I have now clarified (and Defendants have agreed) that all transfers of assets out of the Trust exceeding $5 million must be reported," Jones wrote.

"These transactions included a cash transfer of $29 million to Donald J. Trump, which I have confirmed was used for tax payments," she wrote in the letter. "Based upon Defendants explanations I have also confirmed that the other transfers were for insurance premiums and to an attorney escrow account."

Read the letter below:


 
  • #267
  • #268
Thursday, November 30th:
*Bench Trial continues (Day 37) (@ 10am ET) – NY - New York vs. Donald J. Trump (76/now 77), Donald Trump, Jr. (45) & Eric Trump (38/now 39) & the Trump Organization, Inc. (Allen Weisselberg (75/now 76) & Jeffrey McConney) are being sued by Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who is leading a civil investigation (which cannot result in criminal charges filed on 9/21/22) & has spent years looking at whether the company committed various acts of fraud over several decades. In the civil case, Ms. James has filed a lawsuit against Trump & two of his children accusing them of "astounding" fraud & deception.
New York is seeking $250 million in financial penalties & asked the court to ban Trump, Donald Trump Jr. & Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director in any corporation registered or licensed in New York. James also requested the court ban the former president & his business from acquiring real estate in New York or from applying for loans from any New York financial institution for five years. James's civil case accuses Trump of lying from 2011 to 2021 about asset values at the Trump Organization, as well as his own net worth, in order to obtain better terms from lenders & insurers.
Lawsuit against: Donald John Trump, Donald Trump, Jr, Eric Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organization, Inc., Trump Organization LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holinds Managing Memer, Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post of Fice LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC & Seven Springs LLC.
All charges against Ivanka Trump were dismissed in June, 2023.
Bench Trial began on 10/2/23. Prosecutors rested their case on 11/8/23. Defense began their case on 11/13/23. (could last until 12/22/23 per Judge).
The lawsuit’s remaining 6 counts allege similar acts of fraud (that Trump inflated his assets on statements of financial condition that he submitted to banks & insurers for personal gain).
Judge Arthur F. Engoron presiding / NY State Attorney General Leticia James & senior enforcement counsel Kevin Wallace, Defense attorney Christopher Kise & Jesus Suarez & Alina Habba for Trump, Weisselberg & the rest of the defendants for Trump Org. / Clifford Robert of Robert & Robert PLLC for Donald, Jr. & Eric.
New York appellate court temporarily paused gag orders on Thursday, 11/16/23 & NY AG Letitia James & representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday, 11/22/23 to file a response to the appellate judge's stay of the limited gag order imposed last month on Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge's order. Trump's reply is then due on 11/27/23 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December.

Case & court info & Summary Judgement from 9/21/22 thru 9/28/23 & Bench Trial Day 1-35 (10/2-11/28/23) reference post #265 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14

11/29/23 Wednesday, Trial Day 36: Defense witnesses: Former Deutsche Bank vice president Emily Pereless back on stand for cross exam. Former Deutsche Bank managing director Rosemary Vrablic. Trump Organization VP Patrick Birney. Judge Arthur Engoron adjourned court for the day after Birney completed his testimony.
For more info see post #267 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14
Bench Trial continues on Thursday, 11/30/23.
 
  • #269

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  • #270
It will be interesting to see if this reels Trump in, and if not, how Judge Engoron enforces it “rigorously and vigorously.”


During a break in the trial Thursday morning, Engoron announced the appeals court ruling reinstating the gag order.

“I intend to enforce the gag orders rigorously and vigorously. I want to make sure that counsel informs their clients of the fact that the stay was vacated,” the judge said.

“It is a tragic day for the rule of law, but we’re aware,” Trump’s attorney Chris Kise said.

“It is what it is,” Engoron responded.

BBM
 
  • #271
  • #272
Trump has now started attacking Judge Engoran's wife, claiming that she owned a twitter/X account that was making anti Trump posts. (Untruthfully, and with no evidence to support this claim.) This was after Judge Engoran's quite relaxed gag order was reinstated. (Don't attack my staff. It's dangerous and unnecessary)

The disgorgement after the New York fraud charges will clearly be much higher that the costs of even this prolonged trial, and the dissolution of Trump company's, wealth, and exposure as less than successful than he had previously insisted upon are considerable bonuses, if intent and materiality of the, (already established/agreed about), persistent frauds are proven.

Jack Smith has been watching the New York gag order appeal, and citing Trump's attacks on Judge Engoren's wife in his own efforts to achieve and effective gag order in his State.

Trump is long past getting away with his behaviour. He is, in fact, madly digging his own hole deeper.

That the GOP are mostly supporting him blows my mind. I do not claim to be sophisticated politically, but this is a person who is clearly not fit for the job until his legal situation is at least resolved further. I actually think the sexual assualt and fraud convictions are already sufficiant threshold level for no future Presidency for him. I respect that other people might not agree with me about that, but really, they are seeing what we are seeing, and more, and this is who they want to make President?
 
  • #273
Smh.
 
  • #274
  • #275
Friday, December 1st:
*Bench Trial continues (Day 38) (@ 10am ET) – NY - New York vs. Donald J. Trump (76/now 77), Donald Trump, Jr. (45) & Eric Trump (38/now 39) & the Trump Organization, Inc. (Allen Weisselberg (75/now 76) & Jeffrey McConney) are being sued by Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who is leading a civil investigation (which cannot result in criminal charges filed on 9/21/22) & has spent years looking at whether the company committed various acts of fraud over several decades. In the civil case, Ms. James has filed a lawsuit against Trump & two of his children accusing them of "astounding" fraud & deception.
New York is seeking $250 million in financial penalties & asked the court to ban Trump, Donald Trump Jr. & Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director in any corporation registered or licensed in New York. James also requested the court ban the former president & his business from acquiring real estate in New York or from applying for loans from any New York financial institution for five years. James's civil case accuses Trump of lying from 2011 to 2021 about asset values at the Trump Organization, as well as his own net worth, in order to obtain better terms from lenders & insurers.
Lawsuit against: Donald John Trump, Donald Trump, Jr, Eric Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organization, Inc., Trump Organization LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holinds Managing Memer, Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post of Fice LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC & Seven Springs LLC.
All charges against Ivanka Trump were dismissed in June, 2023.
Bench Trial began on 10/2/23. Prosecutors rested their case on 11/8/23. Defense began their case on 11/13/23. Closing argument on 1/11/24.
The lawsuit’s remaining 6 counts allege similar acts of fraud (that Trump inflated his assets on statements of financial condition that he submitted to banks & insurers for personal gain).
Judge Arthur F. Engoron presiding / NY State Attorney General Leticia James & senior enforcement counsel Kevin Wallace, Defense attorney Christopher Kise & Jesus Suarez & Alina Habba for Trump, Weisselberg & the rest of the defendants for Trump Org. / Clifford Robert of Robert & Robert PLLC for Donald, Jr. & Eric.
New York appellate court temporarily paused gag orders on Thursday, 11/16/23 & NY AG Letitia James & representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday, 11/22/23 to file a response to the appellate judge's stay of the limited gag order imposed last month on Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge's order. Trump's reply is then due on 11/27/23 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December. Gag Order was lifted on 11/30/23!

Case & court info & Summary Judgement from 9/21/22 thru 9/28/23 & Bench Trial Day 1-36 (10/2-11/29/23) reference post #268 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14

11/30/23 Update: It is ordered that the motion (gag order) is denied; the interim relief granted by order of a Justice of this Court, dated 11/16/23, is hereby vacated, the appellate court said in its ruling issued this morning. Entered 11/30/23 by Susanna Molina Rojas, Clerk of the Court.
During a break in the trial Thursday morning, Engoron announced the appeals court ruling reinstating the gag order. “I intend to enforce the gag orders rigorously & vigorously. I want to make sure that counsel informs their clients of the fact that the stay was vacated,” the judge said. “It is a tragic day for the rule of law, but we’re aware,” Trump’s attorney Chris Kise said. “It is what it is,” Engoron responded.
11/30/23 Thursday, Trial Day 37: Defense witness: Commerical real estate expert Robert Unell.
For more info see post #274 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14
Closing statements in the trial aren't likely to occur until January, according to an updated schedule proposed by Judge Engoron. The trial was initially expected to wrap up in December.
State attorney Kevin Wallace initially requested that Engoron set closing statements for 12/13/23. Trump is set to testify on 12/11/23 & Wallace said the state may to present a brief rebuttal case, including testimony from two witnesses, on 12/12/23. Judge Engoron has set a date of 1/11/24 for closing arguments in the trial. Both parties face a noon deadline on 1/5/24 to file their briefs & closing arguments are scheduled to take place in person on 1/11/24, the judge decided after considering scheduling proposals from both the state & the defense. Engoron said he plans to issue his decision in the case "a few weeks after" closing arguments.
Bench Trial continues on Friday, 12/1/23.
 
  • #276
Monday, December 4th:
*Bench Trial continues (Day 39) (@ 10am ET) – NY - New York vs. Donald J. Trump (76/now 77), Donald Trump, Jr. (45) & Eric Trump (38/now 39) & the Trump Organization, Inc. (Allen Weisselberg (75/now 76) & Jeffrey McConney) are being sued by Letitia James, the New York Attorney General, who is leading a civil investigation (which cannot result in criminal charges filed on 9/21/22) & has spent years looking at whether the company committed various acts of fraud over several decades. In the civil case, Ms. James has filed a lawsuit against Trump & two of his children accusing them of "astounding" fraud & deception.
New York is seeking $250 million in financial penalties & asked the court to ban Trump, Donald Trump Jr. & Eric Trump from serving as an officer or director in any corporation registered or licensed in New York. James also requested the court ban the former president & his business from acquiring real estate in New York or from applying for loans from any New York financial institution for five years. James's civil case accuses Trump of lying from 2011 to 2021 about asset values at the Trump Organization, as well as his own net worth, in order to obtain better terms from lenders & insurers.
Lawsuit against: Donald John Trump, Donald Trump, Jr, Eric Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, The Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, The Trump Organization, Inc., Trump Organization LLC, DJT Holdings LLC, DJT Holinds Managing Memer, Trump Endeavor 12 LLC, 401 North Wabash Venture LLC, Trump Old Post of Fice LLC, 40 Wall Street LLC & Seven Springs LLC.
All charges against Ivanka Trump were dismissed in June, 2023.
Bench Trial began on 10/2/23. Prosecutors rested their case on 11/8/23. Defense began their case on 11/13/23. (could last until 12/22/23 per Judge).
The lawsuit’s remaining 6 counts allege similar acts of fraud (that Trump inflated his assets on statements of financial condition that he submitted to banks & insurers for personal gain).
Judge Arthur F. Engoron presiding / NY State Attorney General Leticia James & senior enforcement counsel Kevin Wallace, Defense attorney Christopher Kise & Jesus Suarez & Alina Habba for Trump, Weisselberg & the rest of the defendants for Trump Org. / Clifford Robert of Robert & Robert PLLC for Donald, Jr. & Eric.
New York appellate court temporarily paused gag orders on Thursday, 11/16/23 & NY AG Letitia James & representatives for Judge Arthur Engoron have until Wednesday, 11/22/23 to file a response to the appellate judge's stay of the limited gag order imposed last month on Trump by Engoron, according to the appellate judge's order. Trump's reply is then due on 11/27/23 before the appellate court decides whether to fully lift the gag order. The civil fraud trial is expected to wrap up in mid-December.

Case & court info & Summary Judgement from 9/21/22 thru 9/28/23 & Bench Trial Day 1-37 (10/2-11/30/23) reference post #275 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14

12/1/23 Friday, Trial Day 38: Defense witness: Commercial real estate expert Robert Unell.
For more info see post #277 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...r-sept-2022-trial-2-oct-2023-2.695170/page-14
Bench Trial continues on Monday, 12/4/23.
 
  • #277
And some rulings by the Judge on Friday, 12/1/23



Judge Engoron denied two motions by the New York attorney general that would have precluded testimony from two experts on the value of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago property.

In his pretrial ruling, Engoron decided that Trump inflated the value of the oceanfront property by 2,300% by listing its value at least $426 million, despite a tax appraiser determining its value at $27.6 million.
[.....]
Judge Engoron again denied a request from the defense to subpoena the Trump Organization's independent monitor for testimony.

Twice this week, Trump's attorneys unsuccessfully sought to call to the stand former judge Barbara Jones, the monitor appointed by Engoron to oversee the Trump Organization's finances after the New York attorney general accused the firm of fraud.

Trump attorney Chris Kise tried for a third time Friday.
 
  • #278
Barbara Jones, the monitor appointed by Engoran, can only testify to information about what happened after her appointment. It is uncontested that fraud occurred, persistently. The only further purpose of this trial is to establish the intent behind it, and the material consequences of it. What could Barbara Jones speak of that would help establish either?
 
  • #279
Barbara Jones, the monitor appointed by Engoran, can only testify to information about what happened after her appointment. It is uncontested that fraud occurred, persistently. The only further purpose of this trial is to establish the intent behind it, and the material consequences of it. What could Barbara Jones speak of that would help establish either?
I agree, but predict the decision will be twisted by some into the judge is against Trump and is denying him rights right in front of our eyes.
 
  • #280
I agree, but predict the decision will be twisted by some into the judge is against Trump and is denying him rights right in front of our eyes.
Of course you are right, it will be twisted by some, gaslighting on an industrial scale is going on. Whatever happens, whatever is said is twisted or taken out of context, or flat out lied about, but only believed by a minority. Hopefully most of us will watch, listen and read, and then come to our own conclusions. There are lots of encouraging signs that the misinformation process isn't working-the drop in reported GOP donations is powerful, for instance, but it's a long and often bleak process. We're all sick of it, it's outrageous, and unfair, and just plain boring, but now is the time we have to be steadfast-what happens in the next twelve months is going to shape what happens in the foreseeable future. I really do believe that the days of "Teflon Don" are over. I think Trump will have to be accountable, in both civil and criminal courts, if he is found to be guilty of wrong doing. He already is, the New York fraud trial has been a disaster for him, however he tries to paint it, and that is just the start. I believe when we look back upon this time,(from some time in the future), we will understand that Trump's political future was over at this point.Already over.
 

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