Found Deceased NY - Dr. Tamara Saukin, 44, Staten Island, 18 Nov 2020

[10ofRods]

I'm not following. If she was having addiction issues or, let's see, any other health issues that would not allow her to perform her duties to her full potential, what other option would she have besides surrendering her license? That's the closest thing you get to put your career on pause when you're a doctor, correct?

If she had plans to not work for a while, and didn't know how long, wouldn't it make sense to surrender? At least to me it's making sense.

She was having legal issues too, so surrendering was probably something she would have to do. Can you be a doctor if you have a DWI?

She could have just stopped practicing. However, as I said in an earlier post, her own physician(s) might have insisted that something more be done, for her health and for patient safety.

I have seen it happen. Yes, you can be a doctor if you have a DWI/DUI. And in that case, surrendering the license without being asked (and reporting your own DWI to the licensing board) is the best strategy - a lawyer would advise that IMO. Then, the doctor (or nurse or whatever profession we're talking about) goes into a rehab program, preferably supervised by a psychiatrist who has experience in rehab for physicians.

The surrender of the license voluntarily shows good faith on the part of the troubled physician. It can also help the physician plead out to a lesser charge in some jurisdictions.

At any rate, the advice to surrender could have come either from her own treating physician or from a lawyer (or both).

Reporting oneself to the medical board in a situation like this is always preferable to having them find out on their own (and that often happens via a patient or public complaint).

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Mystery Surrounds Disappearance of Staten Island Doctor Last Seen on Walk in Park

Adding to the mystery, Saukin abruptly suspended her medical practice in recent weeks, reportedly due to "unforeseen circumstances."

The park where Saukin went missing, although relatively flat and bordering several neighborhoods on Staten Island, has a number of horse trails and heavily wooded sections that could confuse runners.

 

[kittythehare]

Mystery Surrounds Disappearance of Staten Island Doctor Last Seen on Walk in Park

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Doctor, former competitive figure skater disappears ‘without a trace’ after walk in the park with her mother

Police in New York are searching for a doctor who has been missing for over a week.

According to SILive.com, Tamara Saukin, 44, was last seen on walk with her mother at Staten Island’s Cloves Lake Park on the morning of November 18. The mother reportedly told police that she had gone back to the car, but Tamara wanted to continue walking.

“She disappeared without a trace,” a law enforcement source told the news outlet.

According to the report, police have searched Cloves Lake Park extensively, including with dive teams. Police reportedly said last week that they had not found any evidence of foul play, but have released very few details about their investigation outside of search updates.

 

[10ofRods]

It might sounds farfetched, but my hope is she needed to get away and somehow found some place to do it. Maybe the support, sympathy and possible interventions were too much and she needed to be alone to think, and to detox. And the only way she could do that without a ton of opposition would be to just leave, the way she did. It would take a lot of strength to do that and I hope it's a real possibility.

I think this is possible if her issues involved prescription drug abuse - but I find it unlikely. People do try to rehab themselves, by themselves, and are usually unsuccessful. If, however, they go someplace that their preferred drug is not available, there's a better chance of success.

Dr Saukin ran a pain management clinic, according to what I find on the internet. She specialized in chronic illnesses and particularly in chronic pain (headaches, cystitis).

A person with any kind of addiction problem (and a DUI indicates a problem) is rarely successful on their own. IMO, frequently the reason they try to go off by themselves is to have the ability to use again, if they wish.

We don't know how much "support and sympathy" she was getting, that's a complex topic. One person's "support" is another person's anathema, that's for sure.

That's why professional rehab works. Being in the company of other people with the same problem is also extremely enlightening and is known to work.

 

[ElementalLaura]

@Sea Rider, something you wrote has stuck with me, and I’m hoping you wouldn’t mind satisfying my curiosity.

<respectfully snipped by me & bolded by me below>
The other thing is that she sympathized with my search for a holistic doctor and wanted to be that, and I think could have but I think she was under a lot of pressure to have a conventional practice and was overbooked. She didn't like the medical establishment and could understand why I didn't. She was open-minded and analytical, smarter and more caring than many other doctors.<RSBM>

I’m curious about your insights into why you thought she was under a lot of pressure and what her concerns were with the medical establishment. I had somewhat sensed that might be why she had pursued holistic training, but I’d value your thoughts. Thank you!

I think this is possible if her issues involved prescription drug abuse - but I find it unlikely. People do try to rehab themselves, by themselves, and are usually unsuccessful. If, however, they go someplace that their preferred drug is not available, there's a better chance of success. <RSBM>

@10ofRods, thank you as well for your compassionate and informed view of people who are working to overcome addiction issues.

 

[kittythehare]

One DUI, classified as misdemeanour does not an alcoholic or a drug addict make.
I feel I must say this.
I have scoured the net seeking similar or further descriptions of incidents she may be involved in pointing towards a problem,
I found none.
They may be there but I have not found them. I tried.
I also failed to locate credible reports that she suffered from depression.
If we remove those speculations we are left with a disappeared woman with no evidence that her disappearance was voluntary.

I'm veering towards foul play.
Dawn was not until 6.47am on November 18
Sunrise and sunset times in Staten Island
She disappeared during pre-dawn.
Assuming the walk commenced at 6am, speculating , they walked in darkness.
her mother would have returned to the car in darkness too. I'm not sure how old her mother is.
The doctor is described as compassionate in all her open access reviews.

It's 11 days today. No sign.
LE are still in there, they have dogs.. Still no sign.

We don't know much about her life or her character but all we do know suggests this is out of character for her- to wilfully disappear.
@AmandaReckonwith do you by any chance have a means of putting up a map showing track from park to forest they discussed in the nbc segment we saw earlier, please?

 

[kittythehare]

Her next court appearance has been re-scheduled to February
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/we...cordType=C&recordNum=5jdnCPUp7fD//4ix6cgftw==

 

[Auntie_Seagull]

One DUI, classified as misdemeanour does not an alcoholic or a drug addict make.

Of course it doesn't. But, you know, we should take also in the consideration what kind of a person this DUI happened to. If she was twentysomething party girl it would be small potatoes. A middle aged, accomplished, highly organised and highly responsible lady doc (and a DUI for a doctor is a huge mess that is not easy to clean off) driving while simultaneously high and drunk is definitely a red flag, signalising that something wrong was happening in her life. And I am not saying it to judge her.

I have scoured the net seeking similar or further descriptions of incidents she may be involved in pointing towards a problem,
I found none.
They may be there but I have not found them. I tried.

It still doesn't exclude the addiction. Many addicts can be productive citizens with squeaky clean record for years and nobody, often including the people closest to them, is aware they hide a hell behind their perfect facades

I'm veering towards foul play.
Dawn was not until 6.47am on November 18
Sunrise and sunset times in Staten Island
She disappeared during pre-dawn.

A lonely woman strolling through the dark alleys, yes, an easy target for a perv, especially if preoccupied with her thoughts. I also lean towards the foul play. Weren't there any reports of women attacked in the NY parks this year?

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Snipped your quote
@AmandaReckonwith do you by any chance have a means of putting up a map showing track from park to forest they discussed in the nbc segment we saw earlier, please?

The forest they described is actually the forested area inside Clove Lakes Park. Also, there is a ridge of serpentine rock formed by glacier. A poster upthread described there may be sinkholes and hidden cave structures. A lot of danger to search that if somehow she was there. A map doesn't show hills but the forested area is hilly. Lots of trails, and those were of course searched.

Here's the best I can do as far as maps go:

 

[kittythehare]

The forest they described is actually the forested area inside Clove Lakes Park. Also, there is a ridge of serpentine rock formed by glacier. A poster upthread described there may be sinkholes and hidden cave structures. A lot of danger to search that if somehow she was there. A map doesn't show hills but the forested area is hilly. Lots of trails, and those were of course searched.

Here's the best I can do as far as maps go:

Thanks Amanda, a lot.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

kittythehare, of course.

That next court date, Feb 22, is in criminal court. I'm sure she was afraid of that info getting out in the news.
Also, the financial impact of DUI with the loss of her practice. That would also pay into depression.
I think anyone would be at their wits end facing these circumstances.

 

[kittythehare]

kittythehare, of course.

That next court date, Feb 22, is in criminal court. I'm sure she was afraid of that info getting out in the news.
Also, the financial impact of DUI with the loss of her practice. That would also pay into depression.
I think anyone would be at their wits end facing these circumstances.

Yeah, I'm sure she wasn't happy about it but the thing is that when we looked it up last week it was scheduled for early December.
It is a change.
She has had 6 months to contemplate it, it's a misdemeanour, first offence, she probably would have been handled gently.
She had made preparations.
Voluntary licence submission on a temporary basis.
Section 230/13
Here's the full text of that starting at 14.
Laws of the State of New York

She had a lawyer.
She was doing all the right things.

 

[Rosiebones]

kittythehare, of course.

That next court date, Feb 22, is in criminal court. I'm sure she was afraid of that info getting out in the news.
Also, the financial impact of DUI with the loss of her practice. That would also pay into depression.
I think anyone would be at their wits end facing these circumstances.

We also do not know how influenced she is by her family. Were they down on her for her arrest and how it would look to friends and relatives? It sounds like she wanted to branch off from her straight family practice and go more into holistic medicine and healthy life coach type of a practice. Did they try to constantly talk her out of that?
We have no idea what the conversation between her and her mother was before her mother went back to the car, were they in disagreement? MSM says she walked with family members each morning, who besides her mother walked with her and did they support her or try to influence her?
I go back to my initial reaction when I read of her accomplishments and that is, that from a most early age, she didn't seem to do anything just for fun without goals or outcomes attached to it. She didn't learn to skate because she liked the exercise or the smell of the ice but goals were set and met. The same with her guitar playing, did she play just to soothe her soul and relieve stress? Instead she spent 16 years learning to be a classical guitarist.
This is just my take on her situation and is entirely MOO MOO MOO>

 

[Spider92]

Kitty, I was thinking about foul play too. But I'm wondering, when LE says there is no evidence of foul play, do they mean only that.....or does it mean they have evidence of attempted suicide?
I've had trouble reconciling an attempted suicide happening at the end of a walk with her mother. I mean, why not do it alone at home and why put your mother in that awkward position with no information? It makes me wonder if her mother was living with her - either temporarily or permanently. As another poster said upthread, someone who is intent on suicide first needs to find the time and space to be alone for a few minutes and maybe this was the only way to achieve that if family members lived in the house.
Lastly, given her accomplishments, Tamara doesn't strike me as someone who would leave loose threads as to her intent or location. I know she may not have been thinking logically, but I'd think she would leave a letter behind. I'm not sure if a lack of a reported letter makes foul play more likely but it's something to consider. Of course, LE is under no obligation to report what they may have found in her home.
Clearly I have no answers but am inclined to believe to this is a suicide. It would be helpful to know what the park cameras referenced by Victor upthread would reveal.

 

[kittythehare]

Kitty, I was thinking about foul play too. But I'm wondering, when LE says there is no evidence of foul play, do they mean only that.....or does it mean they have evidence of attempted suicide?
I've had trouble reconciling an attempted suicide happening at the end of a walk with her mother. I mean, why not do it alone at home and why put your mother in that awkward position with no information? It makes me wonder if her mother was living with her - either temporarily or permanently. As another poster said upthread, someone who is intent on suicide first needs to find the time and space to be alone for a few minutes and maybe this was the only way to achieve that if family members lived in the house.
Lastly, given her accomplishments, Tamara doesn't strike me as someone who would leave loose threads as to her intent or location. I know she may not have been thinking logically, but I'd think she would leave a letter behind. I'm not sure if a lack of a reported letter makes foul play more likely but it's something to consider. Of course, LE is under no obligation to report what they may have found in her home.
Clearly I have no answers but am inclined to believe to this is a suicide. It would be helpful to know what the park cameras referenced by Victor upthread would reveal.

Your post is beautifully written.

I have a feeling the CCTV s did not show evidence of her leaving that park, LE are still in there. They must be believing she's there too.
I'm conflicted because it's a missing person case and while she may well have suicided, it is within the realms of possibility that she was attacked too. I 'm reluctant to slide down into the suicide narrative which is sleepy in nature while she could be lying injured, unlikely, I know after 11 days, or been a victim of a crime. I'm trying to juggle both possibilities equally and fairly.
Just in case.
I don't want to do her a disservice even though the odds seem stacked.
It doesn't help that we are working entirely in the dark, no way to know which road she would take or how fast she would move or even where she would go.
Thank you for your words, they brought me some comfort and balance. I am deeply grateful.

 

[ElementalLaura]

I feel that I need to put out there for everyone that regardless of whether Tamara’s DUI was a one-time mistake or indicative of a pattern of behavior, and regardless of whether she was depressed or suicidal or neither, she needs to be located. I guess I don’t see one narrative as requiring less action than another; if anything, the urgency of finding a suicidal person is greater than for many other suppositions.

Thank you for explaining your outlook, @kittythehare. We all want Tamara to have a chance to carry on.

@Spider92, early on in the thread, someone mapped out the distance between Tamara’s home and the park, and, IIRC, it was about a mile. It’s not clear to me that her mother was waiting for her to return to the car. Maybe they were living together (temporarily or otherwise) and Tamara’s mother simply didn’t want to walk 2 miles RT on top of the park hike and so they drove together. Or maybe her mother drove & picked her up or maybe they met at the park. I don’t think we know any of that.

IMO: Her mother recognized very early on that something was terribly wrong. Maybe that’s because of a recent conversation, or maybe, as @Spider92 speculates, there was a communication that the mother received after Tamara walked away, whether that’s a text or a note or a phone call. Or maybe she simply sensed something was wrong because she knows & loves her daughter.

IMHO, her mother contacted LE and explained the background of alcoholism and suicidal thoughts to increase their sense of urgency. She would rather help Tamara deal with any fallout of that becoming public information if it would mean saving her daughter’s life.

Conversely, she could have exaggerated all of this to get a rapid response (but I can’t believe that to be true). The NY Post may have found the DUI info early on or may have learned this through an NYPD source.

One reason I find this so incredibly sad is that I get the sense that her mother is grieving the loss of her beautiful, talented only daughter.

My opinion only. And none of the above should be construed to mean that no one should bother finding Tamara or that she should be shamed for depression or any other struggles she may be having.

 

[Rosiebones]

Very respectfully, why isn't her walking away from her life considered as a possibility? Couldn't she have been so pressured and overwhelmed that the only way she could even think to go on was to walk away from ALL of the stressors in her life and then seek help somewhere else until she is strong enough to return?

 

[kittythehare]

Very respectfully, why isn't her walking away from her life considered as a possibility? Couldn't she have been so pressured and overwhelmed that the only way she could even think to go on was to walk away from ALL of the stressors in her life and then seek help somewhere else until she is strong enough to return?

It is, but the problem is that she doesn't appear to have left that park.

 

[ElementalLaura]

Very respectfully, why isn't her walking away from her life considered as a possibility? Couldn't she have been so pressured and overwhelmed that the only way she could even think to go on was to walk away from ALL of the stressors in her life and then seek help somewhere else until she is strong enough to return?

I would be thrilled with this outcome!

To be brutally honest, the reason why it’s not my #1 theory is that I don’t know that she would even consider this an option. She lists travel as a hobby, which gives me hope that she has experienced some time away from logging achievements everyday. As I sit here in my jammies getting ready to have virtual mimosa session with friends, I wonder how often Tamara has slept in on a Sunday and woken up with no plans other than maybe to hang out and just talk with friends.

What you previously wrote resonated with me:

<RSBM> I go back to my initial reaction when I read of her accomplishments and that is, that from a most early age, she didn't seem to do anything just for fun without goals or outcomes attached to it. She didn't learn to skate because she liked the exercise or the smell of the ice but goals were set and met. The same with her guitar playing, did she play just to soothe her soul and relieve stress? Instead she spent 16 years learning to be a classical guitarist.
This is just my take on her situation and is entirely MOO MOO MOO>

I feel this too. I hope she did run away and is working through things at her own pace, even if that means doing nothing for a week. Or a month. Or a year. IMO.