NY - Former President Donald Trump charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023

[Lilibet]

I think everyone here is interested in the details. We’ve followed this story for a long time so it will be interesting to see which facts the grand jury has decided are weighty enough to lead to an indictment.
JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

@PaulaReidCNN


John Miller tells @ErinBurnett that his sources say trump charges are 34 counts related to falsifying business records.

CNN is also reporting that there are "more than 30 counts related to business fraud" in the indictment.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/30/politics/donald-trump-indictment/index.html

 

[ZoriahNZ]

I'm actually heartened that no one is held as above the law nor given special privileges. Justice should be fair and applied to all citizens, regardless of race/creed/wealth/politics. Democracy and the rule of law should be protected.

This case/investigation has been going since 2016. It's taken 7 years to come to this stage.

But let's all remember that a grand jury indictment is not a conviction. Just that there was sufficient evidence to proceed with criminal charges. This will be settled in court, as it should be.

I am definitely interested in this development because it sets a legal precedent. And it means that the multiple criminal investigations into the Georgia election interference, the Jan 6 insurrection and stolen classified documents scandal can proceed without hindrances of the hypothetical kind. No one individual should be protected from prosecution if probable cause has been found to suspect a serious crime has been committed. JMO, of course.

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess, after Jan 6th, they know what can happen.
I truly hope that justice is allowed to take its course in a peaceful manner.
No-one wants to see Jan 6th all over again. But, by the same token, no-one wants to see alleged criminal behaviour not be tried in a court of law. imo


The preparations have been going for more than week. Metal barriers now ring Trump Tower in Midtown and the Criminal Courts Building in Lower Manhattan.
Stepped-up patrols have been visible downtown, and law enforcement officials have been preparing for protests.
All New York Police Department officers of all ranks have been called to duty in uniform on Friday.

Armed agents of the U.S. Secret Service, who are required by law to protect the former president at all times, are expected to accompany Mr. Trump once he surrenders and during every step of arrest processing.

Security is also a looming issue in the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg .....
Mr. Bragg and one of his top aides have already been the targets of threats on Mr. Trump’s social media platform.

Donald Trump Is Indicted in New York: Live Updates

Mr. Trump will be the first former president to face criminal charges. The precise charges are not yet known, but the case is focused on a hush-money payment to a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 star during his 2016 campaign.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ilovewings]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

 

[Stunned]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

I was under the impression they were going to be able to make it a felony by campaign finance violations?

 

[bestill]

I am waiting to see the indictments, charges and where this will ultimately be tried.

 

[Stunned]

I am waiting to see the indictments, charges and where this will ultimately be tried.

We all are!

 

[10ofRods]

I am stunned to read this thread today and the joy of Trumps indictment. I guess I am the minority believing these are scary times for America. We do not even know the details.

Hmm. The details are out there, in many court documents. But, MSM has been waiting quietly.

The details are an entire workday of reading, from my point of view (although I've followed along in chunks).

This is a New York Supreme Court indictment, as I understand it - there are hundreds of pages of details.

IMO.

I was under the impression they were going to be able to make it a felony by campaign finance violations?

The way it seems to be unfolding, it's one step at a time. IMO.

I thought the same, but I think I see where they are going.

IMO.

 

[Lilibet]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

But should the timing of indictments be determined by the external factors you mention? If so, it opens up a messy can of worms in which anyone facing an indictment can threaten violence as a delaying tactic. The case was ready now. It wasn’t ready earlier. It’s a very important case regarding someone running (again) for President. As it is, the trial or plea agreement will be delayed as long as possible. There are other cases regarding the 2020 election in the pipeline, so it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[anneg]

This Bible verse is on my mind today:
But let justice roll down like waters, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.
Amos 5:24

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

i think it’s not a strong case and that’s why they haven’t brought it sooner. He’s gping to fund raise off of this big time and give his campaign momentum. From what little I know it does feel like a witch hunt but I will wait for the cliff notes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/30/trump-presidential-run-indicted-constitution/

The charges, however, do not prevent Trump from running for president. Even a potential conviction would not disqualify his bid for the White House, according to according to Anna G. Cominsky, a professor at New York Law School.
(…)
The Trump campaign is aiming to position the forthcoming prosecution as the latest politicized “witch hunt” targeting the former president. It has framed the probe as politically motivated by “radical-left Democrats” and said that Bragg’s probe has been funded by liberal philanthropist George Soros.

“This is the new normal. The president has been battle-tested,” Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung said. “This operation has been fine-tuned since 2016. Dealing with these types of news cycles, you learn to get good at it. We have a full-spectrum response operation on the campaign that can deal with anything that comes our way.”

 

[worm]

i think it’s not a strong case and that’s why they haven’t brought it sooner. He’s gping to fund raise off of this big time and give his campaign momentum. From what little I know it does feel like a witch hunt but I will wait for the cliff notes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/30/trump-presidential-run-indicted-constitution/

The charges, however, do not prevent Trump from running for president. Even a potential conviction would not disqualify his bid for the White House, according to according to Anna G. Cominsky, a professor at New York Law School.
(…)
The Trump campaign is aiming to position the forthcoming prosecution as the latest politicized “witch hunt” targeting the former president. It has framed the probe as politically motivated by “radical-left Democrats” and said that Bragg’s probe has been funded by liberal philanthropist George Soros.

“This is the new normal. The president has been battle-tested,” Trump campaign spokesman Steven Cheung said. “This operation has been fine-tuned since 2016. Dealing with these types of news cycles, you learn to get good at it. We have a full-spectrum response operation on the campaign that can deal with anything that comes our way.”

People know what to expect with the Trump PR machine by this point and well worth noting that like before, the public mentions of violence are coming from those who wouldn’t ever risk doing it themselves but will gladly watch others carry it out. I don’t think it will happen again in spite of the churning.

 

[branmuffin]

Donald Trump indictment: Ex-US president to be charged over hush money

Mr Trump, the first serving or former US president to face a criminal case, denies wrongdoing.

www.bbc.com

Trump is the first serving or former US president to face charges.

He is also being investigated in several other cases.

Trump's attorney, Susan Necheles, confirmed the indictment to CBS News, the BBC's US partner.

He is expected to surrender to authorities next week, a source told the Associated Press news agency.

Trump - who lives in Florida - will be required to appear in New York City for his formal arrest and first hearing in court.

He faces the prospect of having his fingerprints recorded and his mugshot taken, like all defendants in criminal cases.

If he's smart he'll ask for a copy of his mugshot so he can monetize it for distribution. May as well make some lemonade, right? He'll make millions.

 

[branmuffin]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

When there's a battle between the seven virtues and the seven vices, I think Trump is firmly in the vice camp. So he is a victim; a victim of his own foibles. The architect of his own misfortune.

 

[Lilibet]

If he's smart he'll ask for a copy of his mugshot so he can monetize it for distribution. May as well make some lemonade, right? He'll make millions.

I believe you’re right.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I admit to not liking bringing this case now- it has been languishing for 6 years--- it is a case that is only a misdemeanor-- Given the other cases out there which are much more serious and will hopefully result in criminal charges, the timing of this indictment is wrong IMO. Trump is going to use this case to make himself a victim and there will be violence-- While of course no one should be considered above the law, but sometimes there are other considerations- timing is everything. Why bring this case now? Trump will go with his usual 'witch hunt" and whip his followers up into a frenzy. I want him to pay for his crimes, but IMO this case looks weak and doesn't carry significant penalties. JMO

There is a felony charge in this.

When it was first reported in January that the grand jury was looking at this, I thought the same as you, that this crime is too stale and too small, considering all the other investigations at play.

But then later I figured better, that it would be a terrible outcome to hold back one charge just because there's another bigger possible one, since it would be like he's getting away with one crime by committing more crimes.

And you never know if there will be any other indictments. The DOJ should have prosecuted Individual-1 as soon as Trump was out of office. No reason not to, it would have been easier for them than the state. So not sure the DOJ has the fortitude to go through with it.

Good for Bragg for picking up the slack. And there is one nice advantage to doing this in state court, no presidential pardon possible.

 

[musicaljoke]

There is a felony charge in this.

When it was first reported in January that the grand jury was looking at this, I thought the same as you, that this crime is too stale and too small, considering all the other investigations at play.

But then later I figured better, that it would be a terrible outcome to hold back one charge just because there's another bigger possible one, since it would be like he's getting away with one crime by committing more crimes.

And you never know if there will be any other indictments. The DOJ should have prosecuted Individual-1 as soon as Trump was out of office. No reason not to, it would have been easier for them than the state. So not sure the DOJ has the fortitude to go through with it.

Good for Bragg for picking up the slack. And there is one nice advantage to doing this in state court, no presidential pardon possible.

According to BBC, Mr Trump has called Bragg a "radical" liberal who is lenient with criminals.

And Fox news claims New York District Attorney Alvin Bragg has a history of condemnation for soft-on-crime policies.

Alvin Bragg: The Manhattan district attorney investigating Donald Trump

Alvin Bragg made history when he took office last year; his spotlight is about to get much brighter.

www.bbc.com

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-prosecutor-alvin-bragg-eyeing-trump-faced-repeated-criticism-soft-crime

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I wouldn‘t count on that happening.

Trump NY grand jury indictment: former president expected to surrender to DA's office next week

Former President Trump is accused of making hush money payments to boost his 2016 White House run, in a case could have implications for his 2024 run.

www.foxnews.com

Birds of a feather and all that jazz.

 

[ilovewings]

Justice Department 'irritated by Manhattan DA's indictment of Trump'

Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney (left) on Thursday announced that Trump would be criminally charged. DoJ officials told The New York Times they were worried.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am not the only one concerned about the timing of this, what is felt to be "weak" case. The DOJ is irritated. I would have thought Jack Smith would have advised Mr. Bragg to not bring this case at this time because it is so much weaker than the other two. They had 6 years to bring this case and did not do so. Why now? I think it is Mr. Bragg's ego- he was roundly criticized for not bringing the case years ago by his own employees who left the office. You know you can win the battle but lose the war. The war here are the two, maybe three cases against Trump: the battle is New York- a nothing burger. Mr. Bragg may feel powerful right now about bringing this case, but my fear is that this case will put the other cases in peril.