NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[Reannan]

Haha no way I'd go near the brush.... Poison ivy and ticks too. I wanted to go and videotape the ride from Hemlock cove to oak beach and just sorta snoop around and show you what it's like. I'm afraid I'll be arrested or something, lol

I will send bail money, or even bake you a cake with a file in it.... (just don't eat it because I can't cook). :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Chanler]

Seems to me that he wanted them to be found. It's almost as if he hid them out in the open. And then by contacting and taunting the sister of one of the victims it appears that he wants people to know that he is out there.

If indeed he is LE or former LE, perhaps he was fired at one point and wants to show what a bunch of bumbling idiots are in LE:

"Look at this! I've been killing for years and they are just concluding that there is a serial killer? I even taunted the sister and they are just now discussing it in the media? They'll never catch me. I know all of their tricks. I know how not to leave fingerprints electronic or otherwise. I'm going to up the ante on these fools. I'll leave a message or something and they still won't be able to determine who it is. I was a better investigator than all of them. What fools!"

Hi, SistaSleuth, a great post. It reminds me that Dennis Rader, the BTK serial killer, insisted on sending taunting notes. In fact, he was eventually caught by trying to revive media interest in his cold case.

And he was a wannabe cop.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

I'm thinking the story about the SK being "former LE" is a planted story. Maybe I watch too many detective shows, but I think they are trying to get him to respond in some way.

If someone was trying to avoid detection, they could easily use google to determine how long they could stay on a cellphone and where to use it. The calls to one of the victim's sister shows the perp's need to taunt. Perhaps they are putting stuff in the mainstream news (the NYTimes had it first? before Newsday who is camped out and up their butts 24/7? hmmm...) to get him to taunt them. Just a thought.

Big time bombshell re: the 48-year-old 2nd partier at JB's house who is now in Georgia. How did THAT not come out until now? BTW, the doctor named by Shannan's sister is not the same age...

I did have a theory that I'm not sure works anymore: that the SK panicked upon finding out that Shannon was not alone (she had a driver) and so kicked her out...

 

[Reannan]

Just came out today:

The man, a 48-year-old drifter with a penchant for strippers, was staying at the Oak Beach summer home owned by businessman Joseph Brewer, the john who hired Gilbert in May 2010 and was also with her that night.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/nd_man_partied_with_missing_li_hooker_LqvHfXICfjJH6uNATrrKmK

Can't wait to hear who it is.... the guy I posted about earlier that had been posting on the review sites for call girls called himself "MikeXXXXXX" (X's added by me instead of what he actually posted). He stated that

"I got started in Atlantic City, I was brought to a place by a foot taxi off the boardwalk. Best place I ever went to, hottest young things in there! All of the girls in there early 20's at best. Not cheap but perfect. Never found one like it on Long Island, but half the fun is in the search."

He had posted this on 1/15/2010 at 12:35 pm to Utopiaguide.com. He is currently listed as being "banned". I would sure like to know what he did to get banned from that site. It was fairly recently that he got banned because he was still posting as of 1/28/11 when he bragged about how he had hurt this Asian woman who was working in a massage parlor and did not treat him like he wanted to be treated. Pretty disgusting really.... Actaully - infuriating!

 

[Dee10]

Snipped by me

Big time bombshell re: the 48-year-old 2nd partier at JB's house who is now in Georgia. How did THAT not come out until now? BTW, the doctor named by Shannan's sister is not the same age...

I did have a theory that I'm not sure works anymore: that the SK panicked upon finding out that Shannon was not alone (she had) and so kicked her out...

I remember reading he what he was doing while he was waiting, but I can't remember if he were his vehicle was at, the gate or driveway...do we know? Your theory makes sense!

Also, I wonder if it is just a coincidence (on the weekend) we are learning about a drifter with penchant for prostitutes that perhaps fled to Georgia the very same day JB gives an interview?

 

[minazoe]

OMG...I toooollld you!!!! sack races!!!! a second client!!! OMG...I cannot beleive you found that picture...

OMG!!!!!

 

[carbuff]

Updated list of missing women from the area. Given LE's statement that the new remains are older than the first four, I went back a few more years. Oddly, I didn't find any likely candidates in NAMUS or NAMPN prior to 2005. I was still looking mostly at the summer months, but I didn't see many likely possibilities at other times of the year. I checked NJ, NY, and the New England states.

p.s. I know somebody else posted some other possibilities, but I can't find that post any more. Does anybody else remember it? TIA.

================================

Summer 2003 and 2004 -- I didn't find any likely candidates.

6 August 2005 Shelly Hart, 24. Hart was last seen on August 6, 2005 in the vicinity of 75 Malcolm X Boulevard in Brooklyn, New York City, New York in the confines of the 79th Precinct.

6 September 2005, Migdalia Garson Diaz, 28, missing from New Haven, no other info

6 October 2005, Lisa Calvo, 40, missing from New Haven

6 April 2006, Jessica Morales, missing from Dorchester, MA. Described as a high-risk runaway, very petite, resembles the identified women. http://www.nampn.org/cases/morales_jessica.html

15 July 2006, Shirley Moon Atwood, 35, missing from Pittsfield/Canaan, Maine. http://www.nampn.org/cases/atwood_shirley.html Looks very much like the four identified women.

07/30/06...NY...Michelle Lyn Hutchings, age 27 http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hutchings_michelle.html May have been seen in the New Jersey area in 2007.

09/10/06...NJ...Jessica L. Paolini, age 22 http://www.nampn.org/cases/paolini_jessica_l.html, known to frequent the same Camden area several other women have disappeared from.

09/18/06...NY...Jessica Isabel Rodriguez, age 27 http://www.nampn.org/cases/rodriguez_jessica_isabel.html


14 June 2007, Thursday -- Krissy Pruitt, last seen in New Haven.

27 June 2007, Olivia Arrington, last seen in Manhattan in the vicinity of West 87th Street and Central Park West. http://www.nampn.org/cases/arrington_olivia.html

*Maureen Barnes.....last seen Monday, 7-9-07

This is the Monday after the 4th of July, which was on a Wednesday that year. Lots of people (including us) took Wednesday through Sunday as a very long holiday weekend.

Brittany Peart, 7/25/08 but probably seen after this date heading north. http://www.nampn.org/cases/peart_brittany.html

21 August 2007, Tuesday -- Elizabeth Barrett, 43, boarded a bus in Springfield Ma. on her way home to Greensboro NC. She was seen getting off the bus at NYC Port Athority for her tranfer bus and was never seen again. Her luggage arrived at the Greensboro Greyhound bus station 1 day after she was due to arrive. According to Greyhound her luggage was forwarded from NYC. http://www.nampn.org/cases/barrett_elizabeth.html

Judy Rivers, Fairfield area, Saturday August 30, 2008. She is believed to be a runaway. Per the Norwalk Police Department, Judy is a ward of the State of New York who was placed in Connecticut. She left with a boyfriend and has not been seen or heard from since.

Maria Claros, Hartford, Hartford, Friday July 03, 2009, MARIA'S LAST C0NTACT WAS BY CELL PH0NE WHEN SHE T0LD M0THER SHE WAS IN NEW YORK.

*Melissa Barthelemy.....Last seen, Sunday, 7-12-09

Fourth of July was the weekend before, with many people getting the holiday on July 6. So this might have been the first available weekend.

Leslie Colon, New Haven, Monday July 13, 2009, very little data

Shannon Gilbert.......last seen, Saturday, May 1, 2010

This is quite early in the year relative to the others, and on a different day. The circumstances don't seem to necessarily fit, either.

Angelica Cruz, New Haven, Saturday September 04, 2009 - 03:00 Angelica may be traveling in the company of an adult male. She may travel out of state.

*Megan Waterman.......last seen, Sunday, 6-6-10

An ordinary weekend.

Elena Jazmir Lozada, Missing, Tuesday, 7-6-10

This is the Tuesday after the 4th of July weekend, which was a three-day weekend with Monday the holiday. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/8308/0/

*Amber Costello......last seen, Tuesday, 9-7-10

This is the day after Labor Day, which was rather late last year.

 

[chemcopout]

How do you know this?
As far as i know, the name of the person Shannan claimed was trying to kill her has never been released.
Do you have a link?
Either way, i am sure LE already looked into it and investigated all possible leads.


Thx

i posted the link earlier (original thanks go to snapdragon who found it) it's a talkshow on the radio in which shannon's sister was interviewed.

 

[chemcopout]

Actually, some of the most prolific serial killers have been drifters and people with low profile jobs who were able to wonder around from place to place, like Henry Lee Lucas, Richard Ramirez, Colombia's Pedro Lopez.
For example Long Island's own Joel Rifkin, who was an unemployed landscaper.. hardly a "powerful" job.

The point is, there are no exact profiles for SKs.. they could literally be church going city workers (like BTK) or nurses like NJ's Charles Cullen, or a guy wondering around from state to state, working odd jobs.

that was my point, it depends on the individual serial killers. they may or may not fit a "profile" that le throws out.
going by geographics, this guy is familiar with li and that area.

some serial killers never leave their house and yard or neighborhood. they keep the bodies in the house and yard with them, such as kendall francois

ramirez was familiar with his area in la.
angel resendez jumped trains so they were able to geographically profile him that way.

that's why le usually says blue collar workers in their profiles sometimes. what you said.

i wasn't saying the killer is le nor do i think he is. IMO
he may strive for jobs that he feels give him "power" or "control". that was the point i was attempting to make.

 

[Redbird]

Here is what I am getting out of all this: SG , using her cell phone, names her attacker on 911 call which ended with her struggling with this person who a witness saw pulling her into his car. The next day a doctor calls her mother with an explanation for her being at his clinic that night and claims she was alive and well when she left. Would have had mother's number because he had her cell phone. Thought he might need to explain being with her since she named him in her 911 call. With ongoing events may have decided he did not need an explanation and denied being with her. Makes sense to me that this person has to be her killer. Accomplices would have helped him hide her body and given him details of any interviews by police.

If it is not okay to voice this theory, mods please remove.

 

[Dee10]

Maybe you should send that link to the Suffolk County Police Department.

I was thinking the same thing. If they find other human DNA, LE could talk to the kids parents about swabbing the kids to see if it matches kids in their neighborhood that participated. Sounds odd, but...this is a strange case.

ETA ~ Aye, Aye, Aye if these sacks were used for kids races, just say there is multiple human DNA, and this ends up in court what a nightmare it could be if there is even one unidentified DNA, the defense will have a field day. IDK if you can identify a child's DNA from an adult? This SK could be extremely smart!

 

[Chanler]

I'm thinking the story about the SK being "former LE" is a planted story. Maybe I watch too many detective shows, but I think they are trying to get him to respond in some way.

If someone was trying to avoid detection, they could easily use google to determine how long they could stay on a cellphone and where to use it. The calls to one of the victim's sister shows the perp's need to taunt. Perhaps they are putting stuff in the mainstream news (the NYTimes had it first? before Newsday who is camped out and up their butts 24/7? hmmm...) to get him to taunt them. Just a thought.

Big time bombshell re: the 48-year-old 2nd partier at JB's house who is now in Georgia. How did THAT not come out until now? BTW, the doctor named by Shannan's sister is not the same age...

I did have a theory that I'm not sure works anymore: that the SK panicked upon finding out that Shannon was not alone (she had a driver) and so kicked her out...

Hi, ElizaAvalon. I think that you're right about the leak.The original source of information about the expertise of the serial killer appeared in The New York Times, a reliable conduit of such information. I think from that detailed information, mass media latched on theories that the maniac culprit might be an ex-cop or something similar.

I think that there have been very few leaks, intentional or not, in this case. The identity of the john could not have been concealed; there was extensive police activity at his house. The driver, quite rightly, asked not to be identified, even though he has made himself available to the police, to the media for at least two interviews, and even the family. The man at the house has remained anonymous, no doubt because he didn't want to be identified as part of such a lurid sexual encounter. That he has been interviewed by the police indicates that the police have yet another witness to confirm what was happening when Shannan was in the house and afterwards.

I do think that there is still much news developing about the serial killer case (which I don't think is connected to the john) about which we know nothing or almost nothing.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Maybe you should send that link to the Suffolk County Police Department.

done.

 

[Penelope]

Long Island Rail Road

From certain areas you could also take a bus -- but that would mostly be in Nassau County, which is the next county west of Suffolk. Queens is on the other side of Nassau County, and Queens is one of New York City's five boroughs. You could also get a taxi or car service to take you to and from the city or to the airports-- those are more expensive.

Out by Oak Beach, Jones Beach, Gilgo Beach and Robert Moses State Park, you pretty much have to have a car. There is limited bus service in the summer that shuttles Long Islanders back and forth to Jones Beach. The Long Island Railroad will take you to Babylon, but from there it is quite a distance to the barrier islands and beaches.

Long Beach (in Nassau County) is the last stop on a Long Island Railroad line. But to get to Oak Beach from Long Beach, you have to drive east a number of miles -- you could not walk it.

When I lived on Long Island, I spent many years taking the Long Island railroad into Manhattan each day to go to work- it was the most convenient way. But, if you live on Long Island, you really need to have a car to get to the beaches.

 

[chemcopout]

Another thought here. LE said the last 4 remains found might be older than the first 4 found in Dec. LE also said they have reason to believe the LI murders are connected to the 4 AC murders.

Could it be the killer was just beginning with the AC murders so we know they were first. Next he buries the last 4 {which were found last week} and there is some carryover in the way he disposed of the remains to the AC murders. Lastly the killer buries the first 4 remains that were found in Dec and his style or method of disposal has changed.

Maybe he kills 4 girls and then stops for awhile, then another 4, etc. I wonder if he disposed of all 4 of each group at the same time? I think the group of 4 found in Dec went missing from 2007 to Nov of 2010, right? If not he would have to have someplace to store the bodies until he got 4, right?


Sorry if that is a bit hard to read ;}

scandi, it's very possible. the odd thing is, if he were to begin with the ac murders, he was already comfortable enough to line them up and position them how he wanted. so i'm not sure if the ac ones would have been his first kill ever, yet anything is possible.
it would take a pretty bold killer to go back to the area after his first kill and return to dump 3 more in atlantic city. he's also have to have a high comfort level with that area as well as li.

le is likely holding a lot back from us regarding the "disposal" methods of the killer. all we can figure is that they were in a line in both places, and white prostitutes. the main thing, imo, is that the killer put them in a row.

if he disposed of all 4 at once that would be quite a task unless he had help, so i would guess 1 at a time.

once le identifies the new 4 that have been found, it will be easier to see if there's been a pattern or not. we also don't know exactly how ocd the killer is, he may just like to line them up in the same dump spots, or it could merely be he sticks with what works for him.

Maureen Brainard-Barnes July 9, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman June 6, 2010
Amber Lynn Costello Sept 2, 2010

here's the first 4 and when they went missing for l.i.

honestly imo, i doubt he stores them. i think he is comfortable enough to go back and forth to his burial area since he's gotten away with it this long.

 

[carbuff]

<snipped>
Maureen Brainard-Barnes July 9, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman June 6, 2010
Amber Lynn Costello Sept 2, 2010

here's the first 4 and when they went missing for l.i.

honestly imo, i doubt he stores them. i think he is comfortable enough to go back and forth to his burial area since he's gotten away with it this long.

They were murdered in the summer, on hot days. If he had put them beside the road immediately, wouldn't someone have noticed the smell?

 

[minazoe]

arrogant sob

hope they get him and fast.

I feel like he has means and a vehicle. I mean it could be a drifter...but it's a drifter with a vehicle and alot of sophistication for phone technology.

he's not paranoid, he's supremely confident. confident enough to chase a girl while she's on 911.

money
vehicle
sacks
phones

hmmmm...

 

[Chanler]

scandi, it's very possible. the odd thing is, if he were to begin with the ac murders, he was already comfortable enough to line them up and position them how he wanted. so i'm not sure if the ac ones would have been his first kill ever, yet anything is possible.
it would take a pretty bold killer to go back to the area after his first kill and return to dump 3 more in atlantic city. he's also have to have a high comfort level with that area as well as li.

le is likely holding a lot back from us regarding the "disposal" methods of the killer. all we can figure is that they were in a line in both places, and white prostitutes. the main thing, imo, is that the killer put them in a row.

if he disposed of all 4 at once that would be quite a task unless he had help, so i would guess 1 at a time.

once le identifies the new 4 that have been found, it will be easier to see if there's been a pattern or not. we also don't know exactly how ocd the killer is, he may just like to line them up in the same dump spots, or it could merely be he sticks with what works for him.

Maureen Brainard-Barnes July 9, 2007
Melissa Barthelemy July 12, 2009
Megan Waterman June 6, 2010
Amber Lynn Costello Sept 2, 2010

here's the first 4 and when they went missing for l.i.

honestly imo, i doubt he stores them. i think he is comfortable enough to go back and forth to his burial area since he's gotten away with it this long.

Hi, ChemCopOut. These are all sunny weather kills. I don't know Long Island, but I think that we can safely assume that work for prostitutes is more available at this time of the year.

On another point, in the radio interview, the only name the sister mentions is that of the doctor and that is in the context of his weird phone call. In an article, Shannan's mother said that "we all" had heard the 911 tape and thus all knew the name that Ms. Gilbert had mentioned.

 

[amysmom]

Going back to read this whole thread so sorry if this has already been posted BUT... I just listened to Sherre's interview and I just want to say:

- There are no cornfields in Oak Beach. Reeds, perhaps, which I guess can look like corn, but definitely no cornfields.
- Definitely no abandoned homes. Perhaps summer homes which are not used in winter when she was there.

And Wowee about the doctor!

That struck me as weird since I know the area is not how she described it just from what I've read & seen on the news. :waitasec:

About this DR..I think someone in that community made the call to her mom claiming to be him..This is why he "denied" it to the sisters when confronted by them..It wasn't too clear if he said he never made the call or said he had not seen Shannon..I wish we knew which it was cos it's very imp info but it still doesn't change my mind he was setup by the SK who knows he lives there..The caller also had to be in possession of her cellphone in order to call her mom..The sister made it very clear it was right after they reported Shannon missing & months before it ever hit the media which only happened she said after the bodies were found..One more thing that stands out is he told the mom "the driver" came back for her & she was "fine" when she left with him which we know is supposedly not true..Again, attempting to setup someone else at the same time hoping to get the family to back off the fact she went missing from that area..He didn't want anyone poking around where he hid the other bodies & that's why he didn't bury Shannon any place near the others..If she was found with them it would point directly back to the SK being someone where she was last seen=that particular gated community.

 

[chemcopout]

Hi, Righteous1; I seriously doubt that Shannan was drugged. Date rape or "club drugs" are designed to immobilized and often work so quickly that the victims can barely stand not long after taking them. To me, the reports of Shannan's physical condition sound much more like the effects of cocaine (which the NJ police release mentioned) or some kind of amphetamine (popular among prostitutes, especially for late night appointments.) Shannan's sister is courageous and a honor to her family, but I doubt that this brave young woman had a very clear sense of Shannan's party life.

The sister said that the driver (obviously on short rest) returned the next morning, talked with people, and they called the police.

The earring is heart-wrenching, but its presence on JB's property has absolutely no evidential significance. It's well established that she was there and then left. It was the inside of the house that had legal importance.

One unrelated p.s.: The "drifter" description comes only from The New York Post, a tabloid source always attuned to creating maximum voltage.

it's not cocaine. maybe lsd or pcp or meth would make someone act like that.

she's in fear of her life, so her panic is going to overpower whatever supposed drug she was drugged with. it could have been ambien for all we know. that knocks some people out, so do different benzos. yet other people might have a tolerance to them and can function normally.

if it was cocaine, and shannon has done that before, then it's not going to give her a bad trip.

if they wanted to drug her, they wouldn't use coke which is a upper, they'd use something to knock her out.

what context did the nj police mention cocaine and do you have a link?
amphetamines are adderall, adhd drugs, speed. why would they want to speed shannon up? if they wanted to gain control over her they would give her some type of sedatives.

the importance of the earring is that le missed it completely and it's awfully sad they did, and that shannon's sisters had to find it.

not to mention if shannon was fine and not feeling like her life was in danger that night then she wouldn't have been missing at all, let alone her earring.

cocaine or amphetamines you mention are very different than date rape drugs.

roofies likely would knock someone out. yet if the killer didn't have that maybe he tried ambien or some type of benzo which would explain why she seemed drugged out.

the way her sister describes it in the interview was that witnesses said she looked drugged. her panic is not from the drugs, which would likely be sedatives of some sort. her panic was sincere since her life was being threatened.