NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #4

[snapdragon2]

I thought the neighbor said he saw her pulled into a truck? Oy! So many facts to keep straight it makes my head spin.

No, the neighbor definitely did not say that. He only saw the driver spot Shannon and "take off" after her.

My understanding was that the 911 call sounded like that had happened, as she was on the line with 911 and then yelling at someone to leave her alone or the like, and I don't know why it sounded like she was then pulled into a truck exactly but apparently it did (and I assume the call ended.)

 

[epiphany]

Wasn't it also noted he called from Massapequa on Long Island? TIA

Yes, I recall this. I'll look for the link later because I was fuzzy on whether the SK had actually spoken to the victim's sister during the call that was later traced to Massapequa, or whether that location is where the victim may have last used her own cell phone. MSM also mentioned the checking of her VM in relation to Massapequa. I never understood whether LE actually knew (or did not release) who used her cell from Massapequa.

 

[trigger]

Darn, Fox News just had something on but didn't see all of it but they will be having a retired NYC Det on, about his theory that 2 or more killers are on the loose. Also they will be having Melissa B. mother on.

It said SK Joel Ripkin was asked about this case and he said the SK is sloppy and amateur for dumping the bodies all in one area.

Also showed another Long Island SK, Robert Schulman killing 5 prostitutes in 1991-1996. Burying some at his mothers home in Hicksville. He worked at Hicksville Post Office.

 

[snapdragon2]

Exactly! It makes no sense..Also, why would the john allow her to not only call 911 but for so long in his home? Even if he had nothing to hide I'm sure he wasn't pleased about it..I'm surprised he didn't grab her phone away from her. :waitasec:

Yes, I thought the driver's account of that was weird. He made it sound like she was just being irrational and a pain in the butt, not like she had any real reason to be afraid. But apparently from her actions (running to houses), the other eyewitness accounts of her demeanor, and the 911 call, she was indeed frantic.

As for why the john would "allow" her to call 911 - I don't think he would either, whether he was up to no good or not - that's why I was thinking maybe she was in the bathroom or had locked herself in a room or something. Maybe he felt he had no choice but to call the driver in order to get her out - that if she was already on the phone with 911 it would just be best to get her out (especially if he had something to hide or get rid of, something that might have instigated the fear to begin with?)

 

[kimmayy]

Just another sad story i came across...

Is a certain area of Route 8 a Burial Ground for a Serial Killer(s)?
November 14, 2006, a hunter discovered skeletal remains of a woman in Litchfield just off of route 8 near exit 41 on the northbound side of the highway. Weeks later the victim was identified as 22 year old Jessica Muskus of Waterbury, She was originally reported as missing in Waterbury on Aug. 2, 2004.

This area of Route 8 has been no stranger to homicide and mystery. Eighteen years ago about a mile from where Muskus was found, the body of Karen Everett 24, was found off of Valley Road in Harwinton, near the highway in October of 1988. Months later in almost the same spot the body of Mildred Alvarado, 30 was found in January of 1989. Both victims were known to have engaged in prostitution, drugs and had been strangled. Some theories point to the same individual in both of those killings. In 1993 Evelyn Bettencourt was located near the Valley Road area and was shot to death. An individual was eventually convicted for her murder however, he is not a suspect in the deaths of Everett and Alvarado. In 1994, the body of Olga Maria Cornieles-Ubiera, 32, was found off Route 262 in Thomaston, approximately eight miles south from the Valley Street area. She had no history of drug use or prostitution and Police have never indicated whether they think her murder was related to the homicides of Everett and Alvarado.

One common thread between the four murdered women is that they are all from Waterbury. There are also two additional women from Waterbury that are missing. Then 37 year old Bernadine Paul has been missing since 2000 and Marilyn Mendez Gonzalez who was 26 years old at the time has not been seen since 2003. There is no indication that these two disappearances are linked to any of the above murders.

Perhaps the most bizarre murder in this area happened at a now closed rest area in Litchfield not far from the other victims. In 1986, the arms and torso of 26 year old transient Jack Franklin Andrews were found wrapped in quilts and garbage bags. His head, legs and genitalia were never located. His murder is still unsolved, and police have theorized that he may have been the victim of a serial killer. His murder is not believed be related to any of the other homicides in the area. Convicted serial killer Richard W. Rogers has been considered a person of interest in the Andrew's case. Rogers had been convicted of the murders of two men in New Jersey and a suspect in ones in Florida and Pennsylvania as well.

 

[amysmom]

No, the neighbor definitely did not say that. He only saw the driver spot Shannon and "take off" after her.

I believe the 911 call sounded like that had happened, as she was on the line with 911 and then yelling at someone to leave her alone or the like, and I don't know why it sounded like she was then pulled into a truck exactly but apparently it did (and I assume the call ended.)

K! I don't know where I saw otherwise..And I did think she was still talking to 911 AFTER she left the john's house..That's why I'm not sure if it was the same call or another one.

 

[snapdragon2]

Yes, I recall this. I'll look for the link later because I was fuzzy on whether the SK had actually spoken to the victim's sister during the call that was later traced to Massapequa, or whether that location is where the victim may have last used her own cell phone. MSM also mentioned the checking of her VM in relation to Massapequa. I never understood whether LE actually knew (or did not release) who used her cell from Massapequa.

One of the traced calls originated in Massapequa, in addition to the ones near Penn Station and Times Square. So the caller was in Massapequa.

 

[Peliman]

As for why the john would "allow" her to call 911 - I don't think he would either, whether he was up to no good or not - that's why I was thinking maybe she was in the bathroom or had locked herself in a room or something. Maybe he felt he had no choice but to call the driver in order to get her out - that if she was already on the phone with 911 it would just be best to get her out (especially if he had something to hide or get rid of, something that might have instigated the fear to begin with?)

My questions are along the line of.

How did he obtain the drivers number to call or did he already know it?

 

[trigger]

If only LE could've gotten there ASAP! It's very suspicious especially not seeing anyone inside..Does she know if any victims were found near there?

Is there's any other way home for your sister? If so, I wish she'd take it cos GF! she should ever break down on that stretch of road..It makes me nervous just thinking about it. :rocker:

Hopefully they will look there but who knows. We are going to look there in 2 weeks though, well actually in 9 days. She can't stop thinking about it. We are bringing my dog and will take alot of pictures.

TY....Yes my sister can take the Meadowbrook Pkway home.

 

[snapdragon2]

This has been my line of thinking also, I also wondered if there was a connection between the Dr. and the client Shannon was visiting the evening she disappeared. I also wonder how the client/john knew what number he needed to call the driver.

That's a great point. How DID he know how to call the driver? An escort wouldn't typically give that number out to a client. Was she locked in a room on the phone with 911 and did she tell him to call her driver to come in? Other than that, I can't think of why he'd have the guy's number....hmmmm!

 

[snapdragon2]

Hello everyone, needed to make a couple comments on this case but between work and reading it's difficult to keep track in this case.

Two things...

News about the drifter just came out and I just wanted to say about drifters and homeless. I-95 is a known corridor for homeless and drug runners. The homeless tend to move south for the winters and during summers, not all but some drifter homeless move north again because of the weather. There are homeless encampments known to the homeless population that are up and down I-95 in different locations. Another thing I'm aware of is many homeless want for whatever reason to drop out of society, not be identifiable by address, everyday bills, just unable to to handle the pressures of everyday living.

Second, I'm confused about who said what to whom during Shannons (I believe 911 calls and calls to her driver the evening she disappeared.

I've read the john called Shannons driver to tell him he wasn't needed that Shannon wanted to stay. Is this true? Then when the driver went inside she was on a 911 call ect. If this is all true, I would think Shannon would call the driver to instruct him to leave, not the john. (Sorry can't remember names ATM) I'm asking in search of accurate information because I find it out of place for a john to call a call girls driver with instructions while near the same time the call girl is calling 911. (If it's true)

Where did you read that? Can you post a link? Because if that's true, that's VERY peculiar. No, an escort would absolutely not do that (let the client dismiss the driver!) and that would be a very big red flag to a driver as well!

 

[mck16]

That's a great point. How DID he know how to call the driver? An escort wouldn't typically give that number out to a client. Was she locked in a room on the phone with 911 and did she tell him to call her driver to come in? Other than that, I can't think of why he'd have the guy's number....hmmmm!

Maybe he is the one that ordered the car. Just a thought.

 

[tfrohning]

Darn, Fox News just had something on but didn't see all of it but they will be having a retired NYC Det on, about his theory that 2 or more killers are on the loose. Also they will be having Melissa B. mother on.

It said SK Joel Ripkin was asked about this case and he said the SK is sloppy and amateur for dumping the bodies all in one area.

Also showed another Long Island SK, Robert Schulman killing 5 prostitutes in 1991-1996. Burying some at his mothers home in Hicksville. He worked at Hicksville Post Office.

really Joel said that:waitasec: Hmmm that just might p off SK!

 

[snapdragon2]

It makes me sick that they found a baby or child. Not only is that horrible in itself, but assuming the child belonged to one of the victims, imagine that poor woman's fear for her child, not just herself...it's absolutely dispicable.

I'm thinking about that case some years ago with two SK in California - one's name I believe was NG - I think one had some kind of military background, one killed himself after they found out who they were and the other escaped to Canada but was caught & eventually sent back....anyone remember this? One of their victims had a young child or baby, who they also killed. Sickening.

I worry with this new info. that whoever has done this might have kept the victims for a time. I don't know why the addition of a child's body might make me think this, perhaps just that it reminds me of that other case.

I hope he or they are caught very soon, and that they get the absolute worst punishment possible.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

That's a great point. How DID he know how to call the driver? An escort wouldn't typically give that number out to a client. Was she locked in a room on the phone with 911 and did she tell him to call her driver to come in? Other than that, I can't think of why he'd have the guy's number....hmmmm!

I think there were two drivers. I read in one news article that Shannan's driver took her to a location to meet the client, who then drove her to his home. But how do we know that it was the actual client who picked her up at the designated meeting place. It could have been the drifter or maybe the client had his own driver. Everything seems so vague, so many conflicting news reports and mysterious phone calls. Wish we had more facts.

MOO

wm

 

[HeinekenMan]

I still think the john inadvertently scared her. Imagine this fabricated conversation.

John: Have you been out here before?
SG: No. This is my first time in this area.
John: We've had other girls here. (and he repeats the names of a few missing call girls)
SG recognizes that the john has named three missing prostitutes. Perhaps she read about them in the newspaper or on the net. Perhaps she met them at a party. Perhaps they shared the same pimp.

That sets up the freak out. At that point, she knows that multiple prostitutes have been there and that they later vanished.

Now, if the john is the lone SK, he can't kill a girl who has a driver. The driver will go to the cops. So he'd have her picked up if he found out she had a driver. And we'll obviously want to find out whether any of the prostitutes whose bodies have been IDed used drivers. I would guess that is not the case.

SG knew her driver was coming to get her, and she STILL called 911. That indicates one of several possibilities:

1. She didn't think the driver would show up
2. She thought the driver would not be able to protect her
3. The driver was the person she feared
4. She feared both the john and driver

Now, let's consider what she did when the driver arrived. She fled.

Now here's the important part, folks. The driver could ID the john, and the john could ID the driver. At this point, both parties know the police are on the way. And this means that both will become part of an investigation.

Would either of them really want to escalate this by killing SG? Logic tells us NO! But someone did it. This indicates to me something else that is very important. SG had enough information to pin all of the disappearances on the person who eventually killed her. He killed her to get her to shut up.

And that leaves us back at square one. Driver or john? Or both?

 

[kikid]

OR....

maybe she really just had the bad luck to pound on the wrong door while trying to flee the John & Driver?

If that is the case, then the SK would have to be nearby.

OR....

There were more men in that house that night and the one she was frightened of left the house and caught up to her.

 

[mck16]

OR....

maybe she really just had the bad luck to pound on the wrong door while trying to flee the John & Driver?

If that is the case, then the SK would have to be nearby.

OR....

There were more men in that house that night and the one she was frightened of left the house and caught up to her.

But, her body has not been found right? So, therein the similarities end. Unless she was the last victim and the burial site changed. jmo

 

[HeinekenMan]

Well, for the record, all of my references to the john can be taken to mean singular or plural.

I have some other things to consider:

1. Perhaps SG had two phones. Maybe she used the second one to call 911 after they took the first one from her.

2. When did the john find out about the driver? If he planned to kill her, wouldn't he have canceled after he found out she had a driver?

 

[faefrost]

Here is the article I was talking about:

http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/03/24/long-islands-other-serial-killer/

If you haven't read it, I highly suggest it. It is about many more other bodies found on a different part of Long Island, but they do have some similarities to this case IMO.

A couple of thoughts, and a little info for those not familiar with either of the areas around the Beaches where they found the recent remains or with Manorville.

Both of these areas do have something in common, but it is not specific to any of these individual crimes, killers or victims. if you have never seen these regions of Long Island it is hard to get a mental picture of them. The common thing with them. These are completely desolate and isolated areas, but they are a very short trip from the densest population center in the country, and directly off major multilane highways that run all the way back into New York City. Essentially if you were to start in New York City (say conversationally, at the Port Authority Terminal), and wanted to get rid of a body, if you were to head straight east and travel until you ran out of people/witnesses? These two areas are where you would end up. It would not be more apparent if they hung up highway signs saying "Dump Bodies Here".

What this means is do not read to much into connecting these cases. Particularly the Manorville ones. Some may be connected, but most certainly are not.

The Beach ones are a little scarier as they do seem to show a certain pattern. Once again for those not familiar with the area, this is probably one of the most isolated spots within 100 miles of New York City. This is a 4 lane highway that runs east to west along Long Islands barrier beaches. These are narrow strips of land, often less than 1/4 mile wide that sit between Long Island and the Atlantic. Most of the land on them is State Park land. What little private development there is is mostly at the far western and eastern ends (The Rockaways and the Hamptons). In between is mostly empty highway with sporadic bridges connecting back to the mainland miles apart. Lots of state parking lots for the beaches and parks and pretty much everything else is high grass and sand dunes, other than a few clusters of mostly seasonal housing. If you have ever seen "the Godfather", the place where Sonny is killed is the western entrance to this highway. During daytime in the summer the whole area will be jam packed with people, at least on the south side of the highway. At night, or during the other seasons it is like landing on the moon. And there is almost nothing on the north side of the road save sand and seagulls. There are very rarely any police on the highway during those after hours / off season periods. The road is technically a NYS "parkway", so primary jurisdiction has long fallen under the state police, and not the counties. And the NYS police do not have a very large presence on Long Island. Finding these bodies (and these types of bodies) more to the east in Suffolk and Nassau counties is worrying. The western "NYC" stretch of the roadway had long been rumored to be one of the mob's preferred dumping grounds. But the worrying thing with the areas along Ocean Parkway? Unlike Manorville, where you literally go through the midtown tunnel and drive east until you don't see any lights or cars, Ocean Parkway is not someplace that you just head to accidentally, or if you are in a hurry to get rid of something before someone asks any questions. It's the perfect place if you know about it or have given it some thought. It doesn't really "just happen", so to speak.