NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[minazoe]

Do we know that Megan was murdered by a customer?

we don't know anything...here are the common connections. which could change upon hearing id's of the new remains. excluding Shannon who is still missing.

all the girls are craigslist escorts
all the girls are dead on the beach
all the girls are in a bag
all the girls are young
all were reported missing by family
all lived in the upper east region
all clothing and jewlery is gone

 

[kikid]

thinking about it and maybe it could be something like...

she arrives at JB's house, uses or is drugged by JB. She wakes hours later bound or locked in somewhere as posted by Reannan, somehow gets out and freaks out. JB has her phone and calls the driver when he realizes she's out and he can't control the situation.

JB then tells the driver that she is drugged out and irrational come and get her. Her behavior is then thought to be drug induced by the driver..... at this point since JB and driver are communicating - she doesn't know who to trust - so runs from them both.

My only problem with this is that from the time she knocks on the neighbors door and he calls police there is only a 30 minute window for JB to go out and find her, subdue or kill her and get back to his house to talk with police.

Unless the driver is working with JB it just doesn't fit. Either they are working together in some capacity or the driver is the better fit as the killer, in my mind.

editing to add.... there is also the possibility that since she refused to leave, JB threatened her at that point (especially if it was getting light outside, he was married) and that's why she called 911. As to why she wouldn't leave? maybe he didn't pay her what she felt she was owed by him?

 

[Reannan]

Or, the driver's role in this was to get the call from JB, arrive back at his house, start talking to JB and then go driving through the neighborhood looking for Shannon. I don't believe Shannon ever saw the driver again after he dropped her off. Since Shannon said "they" are trying to kill me, maybe there is a third individual who we do not know about yet, and as soon as Shannon ran from the house, this person started looking for Shannon while JB stayed at the house to call Shannon's driver and set up the story about Shannon freaking out. The unidentified third man/woman would have been looking desperately for Shannon and may have seen her run from GC's home and off into the weeds, where he then followed and ultimately found her. All of this is just my speculation, but it makes sense to me. Everything else that the media is reporting does NOT make sense.

 

[kikid]

Or, the driver's role in this was to get the call from JB, arrive back at his house, start talking to JB and then go driving through the neighborhood looking for Shannon. I don't believe Shannon ever saw the driver again after he dropped her off. Since Shannon said "they" are trying to kill me, maybe there is a third individual who we do not know about yet, and as soon as Shannon ran from the house, this person started looking for Shannon while JB stayed at the house to call Shannon's driver and set up the story about Shannon freaking out. The unidentified third man/woman would have been looking desperately for Shannon and may have seen her run from GC's home and off into the weeds, where he then followed and ultimately found her. All of this is just my speculation, but it makes sense to me. Everything else that the media is reporting does NOT make sense.

Yes, this would make much much more sense. If the driver is not the asian guy - then this is likely what happened.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Are we sure that SG refused to leave JB's home?? I can see a scenario where she goes there for the 'party', gets high, passes out, wakes up in something equivalent to Hannibal Lechter's basement, freaks OUT, and runs madly from the house. JB realizes she is gone, and he makes up the story about her refusing to leave. SG went to the home of GC, and was screaming hysterically that "they" were after her. When GC called 911, she ran from the home. According to this article, that is when the SUV with an Asian man drove up looking for Shannon. (BBM)

"He told the neighbor he was looking for Gilbert; that they had been partying and that Gilbert had gotten upset."

The article also says this.....which I have not heard before:

"The "Asian" man who was looking for her that night returned, with members of Gilbert's family, to search for her in the weeks that followed.

Gilbert made a 21-minute 911 call that morning, but wasn't able to tell the emergency operator where she was. She said she feared for her life and was trying to escape from a john.

Her mother, who lives in upstate Ellenville, told a New York Post reporter that her daughter was screaming the man's name on the 911 tape, saying that he was trying to kill her and asking for help."

If Shannon was screaming the guys name on the 911 call, and an arrest has not been made, then the guy was probably using an alias also. In other words, Shannon may not have known the real name of the John. If the Asian guy returned to look for Shannon with her family, then he has to be her boyfriend, driver, etc. He may have gone to JB's home, and believed the story about Shannon freaking out.

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Great article Reannan!!! Thanks much for posting! this part stuck out like a sore thumb......

The boyfriend/pimp had driven Shannon, who sold sex on Craigslist, to meet a client somewhere in the Oak Beach vicinity, and the client took her back to his house in the predominantly white, upper-middle-class Oak Beach enclave, where residential property taxes run from $15,000 to $20,000 a year.



The bf/pimp drove her to MEET a client in the Oak Beach VICINITY, and the client TOOK her back to his house

This explains why Shannon did not know her location!!! I wonder if the 'client' who picked her up was the actual client or a driver for that client.

Lot's of new info here to pick apart!!!

wm

 

[OldSteve]

"while searchers and cadaver dogs alike contend with poison ivy and ticks regardless of the weather."

Sniped from:
http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/04/07/ocean-parkway-search-pushes-west-into-day-4/

Not easy - but check locally with doc's, hospitals for anyone getting Lyme disease, or poison ivy... I know, probably too much work involved on this very long shot...

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

The only problem is the boyfriend isn't Asian and if the Boyfriend did the driving why is there a Driver? Fact Check.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I am beginning to think there may be 2 drivers....Shannan's and JB's. MOO

PS. I agree with whoever said that the name Shannan gave in the 911 call is not that person's the real name. It makes sense. The ladies don't use their real names and I'll bet the John's and drivers don't either.

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

The "Asian" man who was looking for her that night returned, with members of Gilbert's family, to search for her in the weeks that followed.

Can't confirm this, I have been trying to find anything on this Driver.

 

[kemo]

The events surrounding the disappearance of SG are very strange but the stories of the driver/boyfriend/pimp, JB, GC and the 911 record are all vaguely consistent. It looks a lot like SG was fleeing an imaginary threat, perhaps due to a combination of mental illness and drug intoxication.

In California there was a situation where a woman (Mitrice Richardson), apparently suffering some sort of psychotic event, was arrested then released from a remote sheriff’s post and subsequently "wandered off" into the wilderness where she was later found dead. The terrain was very different in Gilgo Beach. Instead of steep scrubland, SG would have encountered open water. There is always the possibility that she attempted to flee by swimming and drowned and her body was swept out to sea. It is very likely that this case is entirely unrelated to the SK who is obviously working LI.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Moments after Gilbert left, a man Colletti described as Asian drove past the house in an SUV. He told the neighbor he was looking for Gilbert; that they had been partying and that Gilbert had gotten upset.

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Was this a slip of the tongue or was he qualifying a reason to be looking for her?

I also find it confusing that Mr C. first stated SG was shouting THEY'RE trying to kill me but later backed off that statement. But with the inimidating tone of the drivers telling him 'you shouldn't have done that' when he was told 911 had been called, I can't say that I really blame him.

 

[Chanler]

releasing that tape would make le a lot of money since all the media networks would want it regardless of the contents. as long as it had to do with shannon and the sk that night, i know a lot of us here would love to hear what was on that 911 call.
i agree about shannon being the only info we have so we focus on it.
yet it is shannon that started the whole search which led to bodies being found. she is the only one whose narrative we have to work with.
however i don't rule shannon out like she is just some rambling nut junkie.
she obvious was extremely scared out of her wits, and she did go to the neighbors for help (which is logical) then she left there, soon after the driver was looking. now if she thought someone was after her, yet wasn't sure who it was exactly while in the house with jb and driver, she would be suspect of both of them. there is a lot of info we are all missing here. so i wouldn't be so quick to write shannon off. those 911 calls are important.

they won't release it as it contains info vital to the case.
i understand you've seen "case studies" of individuals on coke however how do you know they were on coke and not crack or lsd or pcp? not to mention the drug may affect everyone different. usually people do not bug out like that on coke. if they are on crack for a long time then they will become paranoid, same goes for meth.

as for the cluster burying and "if it worked the first time, it would again" that may very well be the case. there's been numerous killers who have kept their victims in their own houses and yards while they live there.

as for the burlap for transporting bodies, yes, as someone else had mentioned it could also work as "camuflage" for the underbrush when dumped.
as far as wild animals go, they would still get through and smell the burlap, as burlap is porous and decomposes. it depends on what types of wild animals are around there and the food supply of the ecosystem there in general. it might be easier for some to eat washed up fish or people's trash than to go eat a body. it would also depend on how well the killer secured the burlap. were the bags tied at one point? we don't know..
yet i'm sure animals have gotten to some. like the cadaver dogs, normal animals can smell. the brush there seems thick where some were found. i don't think the burlap would slow the decomp process that much at all.

Thanks, ChemCopOut, for your thoughtful response. I think that you're right: News media would play the Shannan 911 tape regardless of its usefulness to the case.

Please don't think that I'm dismissing Ms. Gilbert as a human being. I have real pity for young woman who become involved in prostitution because of drugs and previous physical or sexual abuse. Shannan seems to have been a bright young woman who had psychological or emotional problems and drug problems. (It's possible that her behavior that night was caused by some combination of cocaine, meds, illegal pills, and/or alcohol.) Getting into some stranger's car is a dangerous, frightening business. (Joel Rifkind "shopped" for victims on my block.)

I do think however that Gilbert's hysteria tells us nothing about the culprit. If her john or the driver wanted to kill her, allowing her to make a 21-minute 911 call hardly seems like the strategy of a practiced serial killer. When she fled into the darkness, she had lost her means of returning home. That kind of vulnerability and intoxication are things that predators prey on.

I'm not even certain that Shannan was one of the serial killer's victims. If the investigation so far isn't being deceptive (which I'm convinced it isn't), she wasn't killed by a client, but more likely by a drive-by. From what little we know so far, the other women practiced their trade by appointments, though I would imagine that there are places in southern Long Island where they can also meet clients in person. As I said, so far, we know very little.

I can agree with what you say about the burlap. Unprotected corpses are not only more exposed to the damaging elements, they are also more available to scavenger land animals and birds who disperse the remains over time. Whether the killer used the burlap merely because of transport convenience or because of plan, it worked.

 

[OldSteve]

Great article Reannan!
Eerily reminds of something I've seen on one of crime shows a while back where two girls from England went to Japan ... they would go to a bar that served as sort of a Craigslist equivalent ... upscale clients would invite whom they liked to be taken to their homes for "dinner" ... clients had their own drivers bring the woman to them...
Because the clients had money and rich homes, a gal would be too trusting... and one would slip strong date rape drugs to those he met with .. he wound up over drugging one or more and if I remember the show correctly... he would disposing his "accidents" in or near the ocean...
If anyone remember this crime show and does it remind you of what's happening here?

Are we sure that SG refused to leave JB's home?? I can see a scenario where she goes there for the 'party', gets high, passes out, wakes up in something equivalent to Hannibal Lechter's basement, freaks OUT, and runs madly from the house. JB realizes she is gone, and he makes up the story about her refusing to leave. SG went to the home of GC, and was screaming hysterically that "they" were after her. When GC called 911, she ran from the home. According to this article, that is when the SUV with an Asian man drove up looking for Shannon. (BBM)

"He told the neighbor he was looking for Gilbert; that they had been partying and that Gilbert had gotten upset."

The article also says this.....which I have not heard before:

"The "Asian" man who was looking for her that night returned, with members of Gilbert's family, to search for her in the weeks that followed.

Gilbert made a 21-minute 911 call that morning, but wasn't able to tell the emergency operator where she was. She said she feared for her life and was trying to escape from a john.

Her mother, who lives in upstate Ellenville, told a New York Post reporter that her daughter was screaming the man's name on the 911 tape, saying that he was trying to kill her and asking for help."

If Shannon was screaming the guys name on the 911 call, and an arrest has not been made, then the guy was probably using an alias also. In other words, Shannon may not have known the real name of the John. If the Asian guy returned to look for Shannon with her family, then he has to be her boyfriend, driver, etc. He may have gone to JB's home, and believed the story about Shannon freaking out.

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

The events surrounding the disappearance of SG are very strange but the stories of the driver/boyfriend/pimp, JB, GC and the 911 record are all vaguely consistent. It looks a lot like SG was fleeing an imaginary threat, perhaps due to a combination of mental illness and drug intoxication.

In California there was a situation where a woman (Mitrice Richardson), apparently suffering some sort of psychotic event, was arrested then released from a remote sheriff’s post and subsequently "wandered off" into the wilderness where she was later found dead. The terrain was very different in Gilgo Beach. Instead of steep scrubland, SG would have encountered open water. There is always the possibility that she attempted to flee by swimming and drowned and her body was swept out to sea. It is very likely that this case is entirely unrelated to the SK who is obviously working LI.

This is possible. But you have to discount many things, Craigslist the 8 bodies they found while looking for her. I just don't see this as a Coincidence.
LE has heard the 911 calls and knows things we don't this lead them to search for her in an area where dead girls are found who have used CL.

 

[concentric]

Could the "they're trying to kill me" mean she felt her employers were trying to make her vulnerable to a killer by insisting that she leave the home of JB without security knowing that other callgirls had disappeared from that area?

 

[Reannan]

Could the "they're trying to kill me" mean she felt her employers were trying to make her vulnerable to a killer by insisting that she leave the home of JB without security knowing that other callgirls had disappeared from that area?

She was obviously in a complete state of panic when she left JB's house, when she pounded on the door of GC's house, and when she then ran out of his house as he was calling 911. I think she was referring to a "they" that was much more of an immediate threat to her right then and there. I wish she had stayed at the home of GC!!! Interesting that she ran as he was calling 911 - what could she have had to fear from that??? I wish someone would go and do a much more thorough interview with GC.

 

[stillwatersc]

The bf/pimp drove her to MEET a client in the Oak Beach VICINITY, and the client TOOK her back to his house

This explains why Shannon did not know her location!!! I wonder if the 'client' who picked her up was the actual client or a driver for that client.

Thank you. This answers the question that I asked this morning. Maybe she was afraid of the driver that was sent for her, which would explain why she wouldn't leave the house, but ran after her driver came in.

Also, do we know if this driver brought her there or someone else? Maybe she thought someone else was going to pick her up & panicked when she saw who her driver was.

 

[mahmoo]

snipped:

I haven't seen burlap bags in years. Had to google and see where you could get one and what they still use them for:

I only remember them being full of grain on an Uncles farm.

I've actually gotten used ones from a local produce market to use for a nativity scene.

 

[Chanler]

Could the "they're trying to kill me" mean she felt her employers were trying to make her vulnerable to a killer by insisting that she leave the home of JB without security knowing that other callgirls had disappeared from that area?

Hi, Concentric. This seems unlikely. There was a hired driver who has apparently been cleared who was waiting to take her back home; much more security, I note, than streetwalkers or most call girls can claim. She had 21 minutes to explain her situation to the 911 operator and she fled the older man's house as he was calling 911.

To me, it seems obvious that this poor young woman was irrational and somehow intoxicated. She certainly had known problems: "The missing persons flyer issued by the Jersey City Police Department described Gilbert as "bi-polar" and known to use cocaine, marijuana and prescription drugs. She was facing a 2009 charge of "promoting prostitution" when she disappeared." [This is from the Bayridge article cited below.]

It should also be noted that JB, though he might be a loathsome john, has cooperated with police and is not designated as a suspect or a person of interest.

 

[Betty P]

[/I]Her mother, who lives in upstate Ellenville, told a New York Post reporter that her daughter was screaming the man's name on the 911 tape, saying that he was trying to kill her and asking for help."

If Shannon was screaming the guys name on the 911 call, and an arrest has not been made, then the guy was probably using an alias also. In other words, Shannon may not have known the real name of the John. If the Asian guy returned to look for Shannon with her family, then he has to be her boyfriend, driver, etc. He may have gone to JB's home, and believed the story about Shannon freaking out.

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

The article at the above link has a great deal of information that answers a lot of questions.

SG made the 911 call from inside JB's home, #8 Fairway, Oak Beach, NY

SG told 911 the name of the person who was trying to kill her

The "john", JB, was given a lie detector test and results were inconclusive

JB drives an SUV, which was impounded, searched and released

JB's family owns several rental properties around Suffolk County, including the Oak Beach house

JB had been living apart from his wife and children. He lived at the Oak Beach family owned rental property while his wife and kids lived with his mother. After the SG incident, JB moved back into his mother's home in W Islip, NY. The Oak Beach house has been sold. Its on the market again, here's the listing

JB's neighbors at Oak Beach were suspicious of him, recounting an incident when he and another man were seen loading something into a UHaul van next to his house at night, with no lights on.

Melissa Barthelmy, was one of the women whose bodies were discovered in the area. Her teenage sister received obscene phone calls from a male using her dead sister's cell phone. The calls were traced from Massapequa to Manhattan before the signal died.

Article link

http://bayridgejournal.blogspot.com/2011/01/body-dump-at-gilgo-beach.html

Hope the police are checking the cell phone records of the other women to see if they have calls made to/from the same phone numbers and if someone used their cell phones after they disappeared.

They should also search areas around other the other LI rental properties owned by JB and his family.