NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[SuziQ]

Way back when I contacted ACPD regarding the murders there. I suggested they take a look at the roofs and the rooms on the second floor of the hotels the bodies were found behind. I felt he wanted to keep an eye on his handiwork. I also couldn't imagine anyone carrying bodies between two busy parking lots filled with working girls. The back of the hotels was easier access. I was shocked when LE raided the hotels the next day. Evidently LE went back and checked their files and found a recent complaint from a prostitute that was attacked by a john. And get this, the guy was into feet. Wanted the girl naked except for socks. He had a perfect view of where the bodies were found. We nicknamed the murderer "Footie Dude". LE could not find a connection between him and the murders. All LE could do was hold the guy on a parole violation for a felon in possession of a firearm. He probably served some time and is out by now. This all took place on another sleuthing site that no longer exists. Another sleuther from there, Reannan might recall who, found Craigslists ads, IIRC, the Long Island area or New Jersey? They were into feet fetishes and soliciting for that.

 

[SuziQ]

There was also another guy who was from Egg Harbor ACPD looked at and couldn't make a definite connection.

 

[svpernin]

Thank you svpernin. I would LOVE to see that map!!!

We don't have many facts and the media reports have been so conflicting. Pure madness.....:crazy:

wm

I just edited my other post because I was mistaken but I want to clear it up again... the map in Newsday today goes more or less like this:

Five bodies in the same half mile stretch, then one a mile away from those, then two another mile down the parkway.

Put very simply, like this:
.---...--.--------------------------.-----------------------------..

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

A few things to know the cause of death was said to be Strangulation in AC all the girls had high levels of Drugs in their systems except one I think it was alcohol. This says a few things they were found close to the time they died these test could not have been done otherwise. A clear pattern was laid out, ritualistic no shoes a few other things. These were street girls there are plenty of Ladies in AC, they have Craigslist and a million other escort services. LI seems totally different, IMO.

 

[Chanler]

Wow, this all fits with the seasonal worker theory.....




Timeline: Found in November 2006, had been dead approx. 3 days. Husband had picked her up in AC in October and they stayed in LI for 5 weeks. Do we have more detailed info on these dates? This might help identify where they stayed.

Location of stay: Rented a house in Gilgo Beach for 5 weeks? I doubt it would be the campsite in November - too cold. There aren't any hotels "near Gilgo Beach", so where?

I think that he had been job hunting or perhaps working while there. I don't know Long Island, but I imagine that finding a cheap rent in the off-season near the beach would be relatively easy. A older woman I knew had a house in Provincetown that remained vacant for most of the year.

 

[mahmoo]

snipped:

Hi, Mahmoo; I tend towards thinking that there is a connection, but there is some distance between Atlantic City and that part of Long Island.

True....there is some distance between the two locations. But.....consider this. I live in Louisiana, about a 2 hour drive from New Orleans. The distance is probably just a bit further than the distance between the Oak Beach area and the Atlantic City area. It's a trip we've made frequently and many times over the years. We love New Orleans and, from so many trips there, are very familiar with the area. I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that this killer is familiar with both the AC area and the barrier island area where the 8 victims were found.

 

[Chanler]

I just edited my other post because I was mistaken but I want to clear it up again... the map in Newsday today goes more or less like this:

Five bodies in the same half mile stretch, then one a mile away from those, then two another mile down the parkway.

Put very simply, like this:
.---...--.--------------------------.-----------------------------..

This confirms what I speculated: That the killer was more pragmatic than ritualistic.

 

[snapdragon2]

The other thing I wanted to put forth:

I too was wondering why SG would have been in the house for 21 minutes talking to 911 if she was threatened by someone in the house, instead of running out right away.
First of all, we aren't sure exactly how much of that phone call took place while she was sill in the house, as I believe I read that she was still talking when (it sounded like) she was pulled into a truck.
In any case, what if she found something or saw something while she was at the house that scared her? She might even have barricaded herself in somewhere or locked herself in the bathroom or something, which might explain why she didn't flee right away. Although that wouldn't jive so much with the driver's account that when he came in she was sitting in the living room, on the phone, nor would it explain why she ran from him, if he did indeed come into the house.
As for her confused state- everyone keeps saying she was probably on drugs or drunk, but is it not possible that she was drugged? In fact, if she was drugged and she knew it (e.g. she was sober but started to feel the effects & realized she had been drugged) that might have set her off into a panic.
It seems to me that she would want to stay alert & not indulge when meeting a customer.
I'm wondering about the driver. I read that she had been working for an escort service and then decided to strike out on her own, using Craigslist, so she hired her own driver. Was this someone she knew? Did someone recommend him? Did he answer an ad? How well did she know him? How long had he been working for her?
It would be unusual for a SK to hire a prostitute with the intention of killing her when she has a driver, and not knowing who else and how many knew where she was. But hypothetically, if the client was the SK, who's to say he always kills the girls he hires? He probably frequents them regardless. He may have hired Shannon with no intention whatsoever of hurting her - his address was known and she had backup. But perhaps she saw something or somehow found something out while she was there, and then he felt he had no choice. I also read that the women were not found with clothes or any other personal articles. Where did that stuff go? SK keep things as trophies. Could he have a stash of all that stuff? Could Shannon have somehow seen it? Maybe that's pushing it a little, but perhaps something along those lines happened.
By the way, why was Nancy Grace constantly saying the other night that women - "locals and tourists alike" were being killed! That's not true, obviously! And she kept reading off the dates that the women disappeared but mixing them up with the dates the bodies were found...Jane Velez-Mitchell said the other night that JB had been 'exonerated" - but that isn't true either, is it?! Exonerated goes a lot further than "cleared." And I have questions about the reports that he was "cleared" as well. I haven't heard the police indicate that he is not in any way,shape or form a suspect. He might be "cleared" right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will stay that way, does it?
I feel terrible for Shannon and all the women and their families. But I feel certain that the perpetrator(s) will be arrested soon. It's just so terrible that more was not done to try and find Shannon at the time. I think it's outrageous actually.

 

[svpernin]

Snapdragon, just wanted to say welcome and keep the thoughts coming because you have some great ideas that I very much agree with and have been contemplating myself.

 

[mahmoo]

snapdragon2......HI and welcome to WS!!!

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

Very little information has been released by LE. We don't know what was said on any of the 911 calls or where they were made from. Did this john {pun} call 911? maybe the times are known a Family member could have seen the Bill. LE is keeping all the Cards very close.

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

One other thing They keep saying Shannon was Bi Polar so what that's not like being Schizophrenic, she had mood swings not delusions.

 

[Chanler]

The other thing I wanted to put forth:

I too was wondering why SG would have been in the house for 21 minutes talking to 911 if she was threatened by someone in the house, instead of running out right away.
First of all, we aren't sure exactly how much of that phone call took place while she was sill in the house, as I believe I read that she was still talking when (it sounded like) she was pulled into a truck.
In any case, what if she found something or saw something while she was at the house that scared her? She might even have barricaded herself in somewhere or locked herself in the bathroom or something, which might explain why she didn't flee right away. Although that wouldn't jive so much with the driver's account that when he came in she was sitting in the living room, on the phone, nor would it explain why she ran from him, if he did indeed come into the house.
As for her confused state- everyone keeps saying she was probably on drugs or drunk, but is it not possible that she was drugged? In fact, if she was drugged and she knew it (e.g. she was sober but started to feel the effects & realized she had been drugged) that might have set her off into a panic.
It seems to me that she would want to stay alert & not indulge when meeting a customer.
I'm wondering about the driver. I read that she had been working for an escort service and then decided to strike out on her own, using Craigslist, so she hired her own driver. Was this someone she knew? Did someone recommend him? Did he answer an ad? How well did she know him? How long had he been working for her?
It would be unusual for a SK to hire a prostitute with the intention of killing her when she has a driver, and not knowing who else and how many knew where she was. But hypothetically, if the client was the SK, who's to say he always kills the girls he hires? He probably frequents them regardless. He may have hired Shannon with no intention whatsoever of hurting her - his address was known and she had backup. But perhaps she saw something or somehow found something out while she was there, and then he felt he had no choice. I also read that the women were not found with clothes or any other personal articles. Where did that stuff go? SK keep things as trophies. Could he have a stash of all that stuff? Could Shannon have somehow seen it? Maybe that's pushing it a little, but perhaps something along those lines happened.
By the way, why was Nancy Grace constantly saying the other night that women - "locals and tourists alike" were being killed! That's not true, obviously! And she kept reading off the dates that the women disappeared but mixing them up with the dates the bodies were found...Jane Velez-Mitchell said the other night that JB had been 'exonerated" - but that isn't true either, is it?! Exonerated goes a lot further than "cleared." And I have questions about the reports that he was "cleared" as well. I haven't heard the police indicate that he is not in any way,shape or form a suspect. He might be "cleared" right now, but that doesn't necessarily mean he will stay that way, does it?
I feel terrible for Shannon and all the women and their families. But I feel certain that the perpetrator(s) will be arrested soon. It's just so terrible that more was not done to try and find Shannon at the time. I think it's outrageous actually.

Hi, SnapDragon2, and welcome! As far as I have read, no one has said that the 911 tape has led the police into believing that Shannan was pulled into a truck. That, of course, would be major news.

There are multiple witnesses to Shannan's visit: Her john; the driver (who she presumably hired); and the old man. There is also the 21-minute 911 audio tape during which she did got to say what she wanted said. In addition, there are cell phone records of the driver to confirm his account.

To believe that Ms. Gilbert was murdered by the john, we would have to believe that he would do so after she alerted emergency services of her peril. To believe that the driver did so would require us to believe that he did so not only after that call, but also after his presumed contact with the old man.

I wish I could share your belief that this crime would be solved soon. I honestly think that it will hang for some time.

 

[Chanler]

One other thing They keep saying Shannon was Bi Polar so what that's not like being Schizophrenic, she had mood swings not delusions.

Some people who are bipolar do suffer from delusions in their manic phase. Moreover, some of those afflicted also overmedicate. One of my in-laws qualifies tragically on both counts.

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

Hi, SnapDragon2, as far as I have read, no one has said that the 911 tape has led the police into believing that Shannan was pulled into a truck. That, of course, would be major news.

There are multiple witnesses to Shannan's visit: Her john; the driver (who she presumably hired); and the old man. There is also the 21-minute 911 audio tape during which she did got to say what she wanted said. In addition, there are cell phone records of the driver to confirm his account.

To believe that Ms. Gilbert was murdered by the john, we would have to believe that he would do so after she alerted emergency services of her peril. To believe that the driver did so would require us to believe that he did so not only after that call, but also after his presumed contact with the old man.

I wish I could share your belief that this crime would be solved soon. I honestly think that it will hang for some time.

Well said.

 

[mahmoo]

Very little information has been released by LE. We don't know what was said on any of the 911 calls or where they were made from. Did this john {pun} call 911? maybe the times are known a Family member could have seen the Bill. LE is keeping all the Cards very close.

Hopefully LE will release a little more info. I would think they'll at least release the identities of the rest of the victims anyway. I imagine the folks working closely on these cases are probably stunned right now. Never in a million years most of them ever thought they'd be so closely involved in something like this. It's probably in one way.....the dream of a lifetime to participate in the investigation of a crime of this magnitude....a serial killer case! And yet.....heartbreaking as well as they realize how many people are affected by the discovery of all these victims. I'm wishing strength and fortitude to all of you working the cases.

 

[scandi]

Very little information has been released by LE. We don't know what was said on any of the 911 calls or where they were made from. Did this john {pun} call 911? maybe the times are known a Family member could have seen the Bill. LE is keeping all the Cards very close.

Hi Righteous, I thought someone in Shannan's family said that in that 911 call she named the person who she thought was going to kill her.

 

[Reannan]

....To believe that Ms. Gilbert was murdered by the john, we would have to believe that he would do so after she alerted emergency services of her peril. To believe that the driver did so would require us to believe that he did so not only after that call, but also after his presumed contact with the old man.....

(SBM) - What if the john was working with an accomplice? The john could act completely innocent in this case and that would probably throw LE for a loop because they too would think that he could not possibly be guilty if he himself made a phone call to the driver, etc. :twocents:

 

[MrsG728]

Hi Everyone
After a long discussion and meeting with my friend who lives in Gilgo, I have some new information. :woohoo:

1. Oak Beach has a gated community indeed. It's not a fancy one, nor does it have a guard. There is a bar (like a railroad crossing) that is controlled by a punch-key code. You can cross the gate on foot without a problem.

2. The bodies were discovered in a narrow area of brush, not as deep nor wide as it looks on tv. In fact, I had her show me on the map. The body of water that borders the area is called Hemlock Cove. You can find it online, too. Boats always line up in this cove and anchor so people can boat-hop. We have always seen this during the summer. People wade and go clamming in there too. In fact, there are lots of these coves up there (garbage cove, oak cove)

Here are 2 maps of exactly where the bodies were discovered. The point is, they are very close to the water, and close to the road as well. She mentioned that it could be visible to someone jogging along the shoulder in winter, but not in summer. This is how the first police officer saw the bodies- it was pretty visible from the roadway in that spot.

">



I think when I blew this one up. the word OAK ISLAND appears in the wrong spot. please disregard. It's hemlock cove.

 

[scandi]

Hi, SnapDragon2, and welcome! As far as I have read, no one has said that the 911 tape has led the police into believing that Shannan was pulled into a truck. That, of course, would be major news.

There are multiple witnesses to Shannan's visit: Her john; the driver (who she presumably hired); and the old man. There is also the 21-minute 911 audio tape during which she did got to say what she wanted said. In addition, there are cell phone records of the driver to confirm his account.

To believe that Ms. Gilbert was murdered by the john, we would have to believe that he would do so after she alerted emergency services of her peril. To believe that the driver did so would require us to believe that he did so not only after that call, but also after his presumed contact with the old man.

I wish I could share your belief that this crime would be solved soon. I honestly think that it will hang for some time.

Hi Chanler, If LE finds any evidence from the crime scenes {disposal sites} that might speed the case up. Someone here pointed out how burlap has a tendency to grab ahold of what it comes in contact with, like carpet threads, hair, liquids, etc. Allot of those things might be hard to spot. And even tho we know this is an organized killer, there could be things his eye missed. IMO