NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[MrsG728]

It's NOT at all a place where call girls would be hanging out and it's pretty unlikely anyone would would ask one to go out there. The few bars or clubs that are there are very casual - really just local watering holes, nothing upscale in the least.

Snipped by me

thanks for the additional Fire Island info. I wasn't sure if the media made this mistake, or shannan just got some wrong info...
Lots of prostitutes go to Fire Island, however. You just don't see them hanging out trying to get picked up. In fact, they are pretty well-hidden because instead of taking the ferry, most of the time they take a water-taxi. They're called in by the party animals who hang out in their houses/rented houses.

welcome to the board! :seeya:

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

Hi Righteous, I thought someone in Shannan's family said that in that 911 call she named the person who she thought was going to kill her.

I don't know if that's a fact or not. It would mean LE told the Family what was said or parts of, I have been trying to stick with LE Press releases One thing is for sure there is a lot of misinformation you know anyone can say,Blog anything and claim it as fact. The Photo Bucket site is very detailed and factual .

 

[scandi]

I don't know if that's a fact or not. It would mean LE told the Family what was said or parts of, I have been trying to stick with LE Press releases One thing is for sure there is a lot of misinformation you know anyone can say,Blog anything and claim it as fact. The Photo Bucket site is very detailed and factual .

Hi, I thought I read that in a link but now I have read so many that unless I bookmark it I'd have to read back to find it. I might do that tonight as I want to bookmark some more links. We need a sticky thread, eh?

 

[chemcopout]

This confirms what I speculated: That the killer was more pragmatic than ritualistic.

do you mean the killer is more philosophical that ritualistic? i'm not understanding here..?

 

[chemcopout]

Hi, Concentric. This seems unlikely. There was a hired driver who has apparently been cleared who was waiting to take her back home; much more security, I note, than streetwalkers or most call girls can claim. She had 21 minutes to explain her situation to the 911 operator and she fled the older man's house as he was calling 911.

To me, it seems obvious that this poor young woman was irrational and somehow intoxicated. She certainly had known problems: "The missing persons flyer issued by the Jersey City Police Department described Gilbert as "bi-polar" and known to use cocaine, marijuana and prescription drugs. She was facing a 2009 charge of "promoting prostitution" when she disappeared." [This is from the Bayridge article cited below.]

It should also be noted that JB, though he might be a loathsome john, has cooperated with police and is not designated as a suspect or a person of interest.

this wouldn't be the first time le has "cleared" someone who is suspect just so that the suspect is in the dark.

a lot of us give shannon more credit than just thinking she was an irrational druggie that night. it's kind of disrespectful to the dead, imo.

it's very possible shannon was afraid of the driver, we don't know.

she did run out of the house when the driver came in. all we have is the driver's word to go on for his actions.

also gc actually went up to the driver and asked if he could help him, as the driver was crawling in the suv stopping and looking with the door of the car open.
why not just call out for shannon? wouldn't matter if he yelled out to shannon or not, as he used the excuse a girl had ran from a party upset.
his stealth way of looking for her is definitely an odd choice.

i would have been calling her name, not just crawling along in a car opening the door every so often looking around. now that looks suspicious imo.

 

[mahmoo]

Thanks for the update MrsG!!! Love having feedback from those that are local. Would you ask your friend if a vehicle could pass through those unmanned barriers. If it’s not possible then…..Shannan’s driver must have had the code to punch in. Or I probably should say “whoever’s” driver because apparently, there was someone’s driver inside that residential area but it's not clear WHOSE driver it was.....is it?

Your point #2…..all reports are that the bodies were ABOUT 25’ off the roadway….not very far at all actually. I think LE was trying to search a little further into the brush than where the women were found just to rule out there were no more bodies in each area. I did a little “ride” up and down a stretch of Ocean Parkway (via the Google man) and have a sense of where the bodies were found in relation to the roadway. This person obviously stopped, got out of their vehicle and carried the bodies toward the brush line…..just to the edge of it sounds like. As small and light as those girls were….I don’t doubt the killer could have done the “dumping” in under 60 seconds. Even under 30 seconds wouldn’t be unrealistic or out of the question to me. This person is precise location wise so it’s easy to believe they are also precise in estimating how quickly they can get in and out of the actual act of disposing of bodies.

This person also seems to be tied to coastal areas/water as you mentioned. The AC victim's site is very near the coast. I “think” I know where the AC victims were found and, if I’m correct with that…..I kind of have to scratch my head and wonder how a killer was able to go undetected to be placing that many bodies in that area. From what I’ve read, the women were found behind a string of hotels and….if I’m zeroed in on the correct location….there looks to be a major freeway in that same area!!!

IF there is a common killer between LI and AC……I get the sense the person was feeling “bolder” during the AC killings and possibly realized at some point what they were doing, disposal wise, was a bit too risky and migrated towards secluding future kills in a more remote, not as easily noticed area. I think the real comfort zone for this killer is in the Ocean Pkwy area though.

 

[chemcopout]

now this is very disturbing and explains le's lack of searching when shannon went missing and also their slow response time.

"In Ellenville, the mother of missing Craigslist prostitute Shannan Gilbert said she’s still waiting.

“I believe the police, at first, dismissed her,” Mari Gilbert said. “If we weren’t always on the phone, they may not have searched at all.”

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...al-killer-victims-to-expand-to-nassau-county/

i really feel bad for the family. they had to keep bugging le to actually search for shannon. had the k9 officer not been out that day, we'd still have a sk running loose and victims unidentified.

shannon's sisters are the ones that found her earring around jb's street. why didn't le find this?

i'm very glad the fbi is helping. thank god for that. if the fbi wasn't helping, it's likely this wouldn't get solved alone by the local le.

 

[Chanler]

(SBM) - What if the john was working with an accomplice? The john could act completely innocent in this case and that would probably throw LE for a loop because they too would think that he could not possibly be guilty if he himself made a phone call to the driver, etc. :twocents:

Hi, Reannan, there is isn't a crime in the world in which an imaginary accomplice can't be added that would explain away objections. In this case, the john not only called the driver; he apparently allowed Ms. Gilbert to make a 911 call from his house and then leave with the cell phone still in hand.

 

[chemcopout]

I don't know if that's a fact or not. It would mean LE told the Family what was said or parts of, I have been trying to stick with LE Press releases One thing is for sure there is a lot of misinformation you know anyone can say,Blog anything and claim it as fact. The Photo Bucket site is very detailed and factual .

the only way it wouldn't be factual is if the media got it mixed up. i doubt it though. the family said that:

""Her last phone call was 21 minutes to 911, when she was grabbed and pulled into a truck, the police missed her by about 5," said Mari Gilbert, Shannon's mother.

"She was basically running away, trying to leave, and it was her going 'get away from me, get away from me', running and knocking on neighbor's doors," said Sherre Gilberg, Shannon's sister.

"Screaming, 'help me, help me, he's trying to kill me," Mari Gilbert said.

Gilbert's family did not hear the 911 calls themselves, but say detectives told them about it and that Shannon, who was working as a prostitute, named her attacker."

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=7843812

"Shannon Gilbert's family believe police know the identity of the man she was running from on that night 8 months ago, and now hope that the 911 call will help solve this case."

i doubt that this is a mistake by the media. abc news is a good channel. the family is counting on the 911 call to help solve shannon's case. they state that, the context of the paragraphs regarding the 911 call all make sense. the whole article is a good one.

she named her attacker, she ran from a truck, well was the truck the suv the asian driver had or jb...?
imo, the 911 call is very important and thats why its not been released, le could make a ton of money selling that to the media, yet they won't release it.
there's importance in that 911 call. between that and the odd way the driver was "looking" for shannon. gc mentions it himself in that video. the driver crawled up, stopped, door opens, looks around, repeat pattern. it's not like he was calling out for shannon. gc actually had to stop the driver and ask if he could help him.

 

[Chanler]

do you mean the killer is more philosophical that ritualistic? i'm not understanding here..?

Hi, ChemCopOut. I think that practical considerations are more central to his actions. Some serial killers pose bodies or mutiliate them. He might be taking clothing and personal effects to make identification more difficult; but, of course, it might also indicate that he's taking remembrances of his slaughters.

 

[chemcopout]

(SBM) - What if the john was working with an accomplice? The john could act completely innocent in this case and that would probably throw LE for a loop because they too would think that he could not possibly be guilty if he himself made a phone call to the driver, etc. :twocents:

it's very imo. it wouldnt be the first time a sk had an accomplice. either that the driver may be the culprit or a witness at the least. i've actually considered maybe the driver was working with jb on this.

we just never know sometimes.

do we know for a fact whose phone shannon used and which of the 2 times was it? did she use jb's house or cell? was it her own cell phone? we know gc called as well.

it makes sense in a way her running from his house, even if he were to call 911. she was just on the phone with 911 who never sent anyone to help her. so she wouldn't trust 911, she likely thought that gc wouldn't be able stop whoever was after her. and possibly could endanger gc as well. not to mention if the killer went into gc's house she would have to hide. so she ran.

fight or flight instincts. then the guy catches up with her in the suv truck.
sounds like the driver to me. imo

 

[chemcopout]

Hi, ChemCopOut. I think that practical considerations are more central to his actions. Some serial killers pose bodies or mutiliate them. He might be taking clothing and personal effects to make identification more difficult; but, of course, it might also indicate that he's taking remembrances of his slaughters.

i hear you on that. he likely does take some trophies. however until he's caught we might not kno what he's taking from them. it was mentioned by several awhile back in the thread.

so are you saying that he's more practical than ritual and thats why...?

 

[mahmoo]

snipped:

i'm very glad the fbi is helping. thank god for that. if the fbi wasn't helping, it's likely this wouldn't get solved alone by the local le.

I want to throw something into the arena. I don't know if it's factual....maybe someone can check further into it but......just because the FBI gets thrown in, and mentioned in the mix, doesn't necessarily mean the FBI is actively investigating the case or the lead investigators. I think the investigations are left to whatever jurisdiction is responsible and the FBI only offers some investigative services (lab & initial consultations....MAYBE a profile) to those jurisdictions. In other words....they are a support/back up service only. It doesn't excite, or give me MORE hope, when I read that the FBI has been brought in.

 

[chemcopout]

snipped:

I want to throw something into the arena. I don't know if it's factual....maybe someone can check further into it but......just because the FBI gets thrown in, and mentioned in the mix, doesn't necessarily mean the FBI is actively investigating the case or the lead investigators. I think the investigations are left to whatever jurisdiction is responsible and the FBI only offers some investigative services (lab & initial consultations....MAYBE a profile) to those jurisdictions. In other words....they are a support/back up service only. It doesn't excite, or give me MORE hope, when I read that the FBI has been brought in.

mahoo, you are right though in what you say the feds might not be helping exactly they are just offering help if needed. local le needs to take that help, it would make me feel better...

i know this article has liked also been linked, mentioning the possible ac link:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/0...g-island-beach-victims-atlantic-city-murders/

now for this new "possible link" do you think that when they were investigating the hotels some may have stayed at they found out that the ac raffo had stayed around there?

it also says the fbi hasn't gotten involved =( that makes me dismayed

"The Suffolk County Police Department is spearheading the investigation and the FBI has not gotten involved, according to Tim Flannelly, media spokesperson for the FBI's New York field office."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/0...-victims-atlantic-city-murders/#ixzz1ItKCS9gL

 

[ElizaAvalon]

shannon's sisters are the ones that found her earring around jb's street. why didn't le find this?

Hey, if you don't mind, I can't find any info about the earring in MSM. Can you help me find it?

 

[Chanler]

this wouldn't be the first time le has "cleared" someone who is suspect just so that the suspect is in the dark.

a lot of us give shannon more credit than just thinking she was an irrational druggie that night. it's kind of disrespectful to the dead, imo.

it's very possible shannon was afraid of the driver, we don't know.

she did run out of the house when the driver came in. all we have is the driver's word to go on for his actions.

also gc actually went up to the driver and asked if he could help him, as the driver was crawling in the suv stopping and looking with the door of the car open.
why not just call out for shannon? wouldn't matter if he yelled out to shannon or not, as he used the excuse a girl had ran from a party upset.
his stealth way of looking for her is definitely an odd choice.

i would have been calling her name, not just crawling along in a car opening the door every so often looking around. now that looks suspicious imo.

Hi, ChemCopOut, you're certainly right. People's status can be upgraded and, as someone said, the john hasn't be cleared; but he is not a suspect or a person of interest. For the reasons that I have given though, I honestly don't think he or the driver are homicidal culprits.

We don't show any respect for Shannan and other murdered women if we misrepresent the circumstances of their disappearances. Shannan's history of bipolarity and drug use is relevant here.

We don't know that she ran out of the house "when" the driver walked in. We know that she was on the phone before and after his arrival inside.

The police know what person or people Shannan named on the 911 tape. If it was the driver, one imagines that he would have interrogated again and again like Raymond Clark in the Yale lab murder case. As far as we know, he hasn't been.

Driving around and looking for the person you are responsible for returning home is not an odd choice. We don't know whether he called out for Shannan while he was behind the wheel. And we don't just have his words to verify his action: He said that he called her cell phone repeatedly, something that could be verified; his actions in the house can be verified by the john, who, as far as we know, was a stranger. He also spoke with the old man instead of moving on. If this behavior is stealthy, most people are downright invisible.

 

[Claudette]

snip

the only way it wouldn't be factual is if the media got it mixed up. i doubt it though. the family said that:

""Her last phone call was 21 minutes to 911, when she was grabbed and pulled into a truck, the police missed her by about 5," said Mari Gilbert, Shannon's mother.

"She was basically running away, trying to leave, and it was her going 'get away from me, get away from me', running and knocking on neighbor's doors," said Sherre Gilberg, Shannon's sister.

"Screaming, 'help me, help me, he's trying to kill me," Mari Gilbert said.

Wait....what? She was pulled into a truck? Am I the only one that has never heard this before? I can't imagine a witness' mix up of an SUV and a truck when it comes to the last moments of a missing person, they look so different, even in front.

 

[tfrohning]

UPDATED Timeline: The Gilgo Beach Bodies Investigation
It's been 118 days since the first set of female remains were discovered at Gilgo Beach along Ocean Parkway. Patch offers up a timeline of the continuing investigation.

http://babylonvillage.patch.com/articles/timeline-the-gilgo-beach-bodies-investigation

 

[mahmoo]

snipped:

We don't show any respect for Shannan and other murdered women if we misrepresent the circumstances of their disappearances. Shannan's history of bipolarity and drug use is relevant here.

Her mental state and history probably are relevant. To what degree.....I'm not sure though. Under other circumstances.....I would probably put a lot of weight into her mental status but the fact that she was in EXTREMELY close proximity, scared out of her ever loving mind, apparently, in an area where 8 bodies would soon be discovered pretty well assures me (and makes up my mind) that Shannan wasn't just hallucinating & "imagining things" that night. Her fear was real and justified. Maybe she was on drugs but I think she still had just enough reality about her that she KNEW she was in danger. I'd be real surprised if she's found alive.

 

[goathairjones]

The Story finally made USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-08-nykilling08_st_N.htm?csp=34news