NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[KEVINinTO]

The reason for no CPR that was bandied about is that it was said that he was still breathing. The presumption was that if he could say that he couldn't breathe, he must have been breathing. Go figure... JMO

When the EMT arrived she immediately assessed his vitals. The first thing she did was grab is left wrist to check for a radial pulse. She then checked for a carotid pulse. You also see her placing her hand on his stomach. I am sure the EMT would have immediately initiated CPR had she not detected a pulse.

 

[cady]

I agree. I feel if EMT's had begun to work on the patient quickly ( like i assume they would do in any OTHER circumstance ) that he would be alive today. That part makes no sense to me.

I guess they thought he was breathing.......duh. JMO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I don't mean to judge your feelings. You sound like a good compassionate person. I have seen what happened to EG many times on the tube without it resulting in death. Maybe I've become immune to it. I've seen so many vicious attacks on helpless women & children that what happened to EG doesn't even register a blip on my radar screen.

No offense taken bwt42. Thanks for being considerate. ws is a great place for us to bring up any and all points of view. That's how we learn. I've also changed opinions several times during convos with sleuthers. That's what makes this place tick. Thanks and I appreciate your point of view.

 

[XXXXXXXX]

Isn't it funny how we can all look at the same thing and see something different! I like it too. Maybe he was. Thanks for this!

That's why I enjoy exchanging ideas and points of view. The reason I interpreted the video differently than you is because the cop that had his hand on Pantaleo's back? If he had been attempting to pull him back, his hand would have been gripped on his shoulder rather than laying flat on Pantaleo's back.

His hand would have been clasped over his shoulder in a restraining type pose rather than placed flat on his back as though he were urging him to keep up applying more and more force. JMO.

 

[KEVINinTO]

I agree. I feel if EMT's had begun to work on the patient quickly ( like i assume they would do in any OTHER circumstance ) that he would be alive today. That part makes no sense to me.

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

 

[cady]

That's why I enjoy exchanging ideas and points of view. The reason I interpreted the video differently than you is because the cop that had his hand on Pantaleo's back? If he had been attempting to pull him back, his hand would have been gripped on his shoulder rather than laying flat on Pantaleo's back.

His hand would have been clasped over his shoulder in a restraining type pose rather than placed flat on his back as though he were urging him to keep up applying more and more force. JMO.

YUP Or, he could have been gesturing "enough already" as he knew that someone was recording. I tend to think that he was a bit nervous about the "hold". JMO

 

[XXXXXXXX]

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

They were negligent (IMO) by assuming just because he (supposedly) had a pulse that he was FINE. Granted the EMTs most likely didn't know he was asthmatic. Just because someone is breathing, doesn't mean they are taking quality breaths.

Anyone with pulmonary disease has reduced blood oxygen even when breathing. The very fact he was unresponsive for 7 minutes (4 minutes prior to EMT, 3 minutes after) should have set off an immediate alert to both EMTs and the LEOs.

Instead, even after the EMTs arrived, there was just a cursory check to see if he had a pulse. Then they stood around staring. Even heard on camera asking "So how many of us is it going to take to get this guy on a stretcher"?

It sounded to me like they were just annoyed about too much heavy lifting for their job grade.

 

[cady]

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

They do look sort of puzzled, to me. They were probably accepting LE's estimation of the situation. JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They were negligent (IMO) by assuming just because he (supposedly) had a pulse that he was FINE. Granted the EMTs most likely didn't know he was asthmatic. Just because someone is breathing, doesn't mean they are taking quality breaths.

Anyone with pulmonary disease has reduced blood oxygen even when breathing. The very fact he was unresponsive for 7 minutes (4 minutes prior to EMT, 3 minutes after) should have set off an immediate alert to both EMTs and the LEOs.

Instead, even after the EMTs arrived, there was just a cursory check to see if he had a pulse. Then they stood around staring. Even heard on camera asking "So how many of us is it going to take to get this guy on a stretcher"?

It sounded to me like they were just annoyed about too much heavy lifting for their job grade.

As someone who has EMT's in her family, I can tell you that an unresponsive person gets a heck of a lot more treatment than their pulse being checked. It should look fast and purposeful as they have someone unconscious and don't know the root cause.

 

[XXXXXXXX]

As someone who has EMT's in her family, I can tell you that an unresponsive person gets a heck of a lot more treatment than their pulse being checked. It should look fast and purposeful as they have someone unconscious and don't know the root cause.

But I didn't see the EMTs behave with any sense of urgency in this case. All I saw was the woman lightly put two fingers on his neck. With a morbidly obese person, it would be hard to tell if there was a pulse (don't mean to be offensive) through layers of fat.

Gawd. I just hope I never see another video like that. Ever.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

My problem is with the placement of her fingers to check for a carotid pulse. (A radial pulse may be barely detectable if the carotid is weak and thready). I also saw no movement of the chest at all. Not even of the accessory neck muscles or stomach which can happen when someone's distressed. There was no placement of O2 by mask or nasal cannula, cardiac monitor, O2 sat monitor or even an attempt at getting a blood pressure. The man's pupils weren't even checked for dilation. With darker skin, mucous membranes of the gums, tongue and lips help to assess. No one placed an ear to EC's nose or mouth to listen and feel for breathing. (Not that anyone could have heard anything in all the noise). EC was clearly unconscious. I realize that I am only watching a video but the man appeared out. No one even tried a sternal rub to assess for the response to pain. I know it's easy to play Mon morning quarterback, but the lack of effort is what upsets me so much. OK, done with my rant.

 

[XXXXXXXX]

My problem is with the placement of her fingers to check for a carotid pulse. (A radial pulse may be barely detectable if the carotid is weak and thready). I also saw no movement of the chest at all. Not even of the accessory neck muscles or stomach which can happen when someone's distressed. There was no placement of O2 by mask or nasal cannula, cardiac monitor, O2 sat monitor or even an attempt at getting a blood pressure. The man's pupils weren't even checked for dilation. With darker skin, mucous membranes of the gums, tongue and lips help to assess. No one placed an ear to EC's nose or mouth to listen and feel for breathing. (Not that anyone could have heard anything in all the noise). EC was clearly unconscious. I realize that I am only watching a video but the man appeared out. No one even tried a sternal rub to assess for the response to pain. I know it's easy to play Mon morning quarterback, but the lack of effort is what upsets me so much. OK, done with my rant.

Thank you. Since you are medical professional, I take your assessment of the situation seriously. I've been saying pretty much the same for the last couple of days, but my opinion doesn't carry the weight your does.

 

[bwt42]

What bothers me is why would the EMT talk to EG if she knew he wasn't breathing. She tells him who she is & that she's there to help him. Baffling. If he was in distress, why no urgency. We may never know, but it would be interesting to find out what his vitals were & why EMS reacted the way they did. I wonder if the suspended EMS personnel will have a hearing & if it will be made public.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

What bothers me is why would the EMT talk to EG if she knew he wasn't breathing. She tells him who she is & that she's there to help him. Baffling. If he was in distress, why no urgency. We may never know, but it would be interesting to find out what his vitals were & why EMS reacted the way they did. I wonder if the suspended EMS personnel will have a hearing & if it will be made public.

I agree, I'd love to know that too. I would think vitals and any monitoring would have been recorded in the ambulance. I read that he arrested in the ambulance or just as he arrived at the hospital and that they tried to resuscitate him for an hour. He was just so still... Hard for us to know only watching the video...

 

[epiphany]

<snip> Israel Miranda, president of Local 27 of the Uniformed EMT and Paramedics, said that responding emergency personnel should have provided Garner with supplemental oxygen, even if he had a pulse.

"She should have either put him on oxygen or put an airway in his mouth," a veteran EMS source said. "They were there for four-and-a-half minutes and they did none of that."

https://nycpba.org/news/sia/sia-140802-me.html


<snip>...Miranda's union represents FDNY EMS personnel, but not RUMC EMTs...Said Miranda, "Knowing that he's saying he's having trouble breathing, at this point, you're going to be giving him oxygen."

One veteran EMS source questioned why the responding EMTs didn't bring any equipment when they arrived on the scene.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/10/2_emts_suspended_after_eric_ga.html

 

[bwt42]

But I didn't see the EMTs behave with any sense of urgency in this case. All I saw was the woman lightly put two fingers on his neck. With a morbidly obese person, it would be hard to tell if there was a pulse (don't mean to be offensive) through layers of fat.

Gawd. I just hope I never see another video like that. Ever.

OT The video I can't get out of my mind is of a woman walking down the street during the Knockout game craze & two guys run up on her from behind & one knocks her unconscious with a brick & skips off. Then one comes back & I'm thinking guilty conscience. Wrong. He bends down, looks at her face & then kicks her in the head. I'll never forget this.

 

[KEVINinTO]

What bothers me is why would the EMT talk to EG if she knew he wasn't breathing. She tells him who she is & that she's there to help him. Baffling. If he was in distress, why no urgency. We may never know, but it would be interesting to find out what his vitals were & why EMS reacted the way they did. I wonder if the suspended EMS personnel will have a hearing & if it will be made public.

I wonder what his vitals were when they hooked him up to monitors inside the ambulance? They should release this information. That would put an end to speculation.

 

[XXXXXXXX]

What bothers me is why would the EMT talk to EG if she knew he wasn't breathing. She tells him who she is & that she's there to help him. Baffling. If he was in distress, why no urgency. We may never know, but it would be interesting to find out what his vitals were & why EMS reacted the way they did. I wonder if the suspended EMS personnel will have a hearing & if it will be made public.

I heard on either CNN or FOX yesterday (can't remember which since I watch/read both) that ALL of them have been returned to their jobs. Not all are on active call at this point, though. BUT they all still have jobs and are all still drawing a salary. That's just another part of this story I can't wrap my head around.

 

[Archangel7]

Prosecutors left off the table a criminal charge that would have allowed a Staten Island grand jury to indict the cop who killed Eric Garner &#8212; even if the panel believed the officer didn&#8217;t intend to choke him to death, WNBC reported Friday.

It&#8217;s called reckless endangerment and all a majority on the grand jury would have needed to do is agree that Officer Daniel Pantaleo&#8217;s actions &#8212; clearly visible on a horrific cell phone video obtained by The Daily News &#8212; figured in Garner&#8217;s death.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...l-bratton-defends-de-blasio-article-1.2034559

Grand Juries do not hear misdemeanors (2nd degree Reckless Endangerment) and someone(police)have to swear an affidavit that the conditions occurred that contravene a written law. You can't charge someone for breaking a law that doesn't exist nor charge someone if what they did doesn't fit the written law. Here's the other RE that the GJ COULD hear if he had broken it under the parameters set forth.......

S 120.25 Reckless endangerment in the first degree.
A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the first degree when,
under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he
recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to
another person.
Reckless endangerment in the first degree is a class D felony. http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article120.htm#p120.20

I don't see a "depraved indifference" in order to warrant a criminal contravention of the law. I wouldn't swear and sign an affidavit that I did based on the facts and video as I see them. Civil culpability is another matter.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I wonder what his vitals were when they hooked him up to monitors inside the ambulance? They should release this information. That would put an end to speculation.

Right?! Because when he hits the ground they don't know if he just passed out. If it was caused by a cardiac event, or a stroke.. they just don't know. I just don't see any urgency.