NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

Also strange, and a bit of trivia: They also wrote a song called Sylvia's Father (it was never recorded though) and it talks about the father talking to the BF on the phone angry that the BF got Sylvia pregnant. Found the lyric's ironic in some verses.

Weird! Oddly, they are from Union City, NJ And a little extra OT weirdness, acc. to Wikipedia, the song was written by Shel Silverstein, who I always thought of as a children's book writer (Where the Sidewalk Ends).

 

[Dushi]

I know that LE did not solve this, or did not bother too, and I feel that there is less hope for us to do so, but someone here just might stumble across that one overlooked vital bit of information that will light this up!! onwards team, the answer is out there!! lol..

Yes Saracen, Thats all it takes

I think we will...

 

[Jmoose]

Dr. Hook - Sylvia's Mother - YouTube

This is OT but I love the song.

This song came to my mind, too, when we started discussing this case!

 

[Jmoose]

I am taking a look at another dismal possibility here and am going to add lots of links to support it. Apologies to anyone who's raised this possibility before. I am just now seeing the strength of it.

(1) I went back to Bessie's map in Post 509. I don't know how to add a "balloon" to the map, or even if I'm allowed to, but if you look at the top of the Greenbelt, to the right of the only breach in the belt, you see Willowbrook Lake. Am I correct that the park that is now there is the site of the former state hospital? That's not terribly far from the site of the alleged fight.

(2) This site provides a long bio and history of Andre Rand. In reading about him, a few things stand out:

(a) He was known to be living in the area since 1972, working as house painter and sign painter, and "living" in the abandoned buildings and tunnels of Willowbrook.

(b) In spite of claiming to be mentally disabled, he was extremely predatory, decisive, and methodical in committing his crimes. He left few clues behind. To date, many of his alleged victims have not been found. There is a long period of time -- 1969-1979 -- in which little is known or even suspected about what he was doing. But the overarching time that he was active suggests he was must have been doing something, crime-wise, during this period.

(c) Most of his alleged victims are children, and he sometimes even boasted of his predilection for pedophilia, but he made exceptions. The text of a NY Daily News article printed on the above site says "In 1979, he was accused of raping a young woman and a 15-year-old girl, but neither pressed charges."

(d) Along the same lines, a 2011 article from the Staten Island Advance claims that at a sentencing hearing 7 years earlier, he "professed his love for older and lonely women and invited the female jurors to correspond with him."

(3) Rand (born 1944) would have been about 31 YO when SL disappeared. Could he have run into her when she was in the midst of emotional devastation? The above Daily News article also says, "People in the neighborhood described him as friendly, articulate and well read ..." Would he have been an attractive "knight on a white horse" to a distraught SL who may have thought she was out of options? Could he have offered her a ride in his trendy green VW beetle? In other places, he's referred to as a "the pied piper of Staten Island," so I think his charisma is well verified.

(4) One thing that really stands out to me is how successfully Rand hid his crimes. SL may have led her family to believe she would run away if pushed by her father (my speculation), leaving behind an unsettled family legend that she's alive somewhere (more speculation by me), but the silence about her fate after 1975 runs very parallel to Rand's "invisibility" during this period. As someone (epiphany? odyssey?) mentioned earlier, and as stated in the Daily News article, "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children ... still searches Willowbrook's 385 acres twice a year looking for the other girls." Yet we hear nothing on them finding any remains.

(5) Just FYI, here's an interesting first-hand account of what it was like to see same-age peers going missing during Rand's alleged later spree. Note this statement: "There is speculation that Andre Rand may be responsible for the disappearance of Audrey Lyn Nerenberg, an 18-year-old from Brooklyn (missing since 1977).")

Based on the MO of pedophilia, I initially dismissed Rand. I am now rethinking that. I wonder what the rest of you think?

Also, I am not finding a "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children" website. Anyone have any idea if there's an Internet outlet for their findings?

(I almost lost this mammoth post when I had to login in the middle! Am learning to save posts to another document before clicking "Preview Post." Perhaps a message from above to "end it already!")

As I said yesterday, as far as I am concerned, it's all still on the table for me, and Rand was out there at the time, doing his thing. I suppose it's certainly as possible as Sylvia running into R. Biegenwald. What I posted on the Lauren Spierer thread, though, was that after all of the stuff that had happened the day she disappeared, it would be extraordinarily bad luck to then run into a thrill killer-and think the same way about Sylvia. It is absolutely possible, though. There were at least 2 killers on Staten Island at the time (although Biegenwald did most of his work in NJ)

 

[Dushi]

As I said yesterday, as far as I am concerned, it's all still on the table for me, and Rand was out there at the time, doing his thing. I suppose it's certainly as possible as Sylvia running into R. Biegenwald. What I posted on the Lauren Spierer thread, though, was that after all of the stuff that had happened the day she disappeared, it would be extraordinarily bad luck to then run into a thrill killer-and think the same way about Sylvia. It is absolutely possible, though. There were at least 2 killers on Staten Island at the time (although Biegenwald did most of his work in NJ)

This is where I am

 

[Jmoose]

Weird! Oddly, they are from Union City, NJ And a little extra OT weirdness, acc. to Wikipedia, the song was written by Shel Silverstein, who I always thought of as a children's book writer (Where the Sidewalk Ends).

OT-Shel Silverstein was scary looking!

 

[Dushi]

Bringing some facts forward"

Goes out with BF/F early evening on sept 6/75
Wearing white button up sweather, light green skirt, browm shoes and bag, engagement ring (PR)
Had an argument with BF/F and left the car (PR)
Last seen by BF/F around 6pm, Sept 6/75, Kmart Plaza area (PR)
Left her glasses in the car (PR)
Born in Germany (PR) Town or country?
Official police report , sept 7/75 (PR)
PR stated no publicity
Det Lennon noted"will not handle" (PR)
At the time, she was not employed and not attending school (PR)
Her mood was depressed (PR)
She had not gone missing before (PR)


Engagement announcement says a Biology major@ Wagner ( undated)
Member of Tau Beta Sigma National band Society

 

[Saracen]

OT I know but just posted this from my tv! i feel young!!!

 

[Dushi]

OT I know but just posted this from my tv! i feel young!!!

WOWWWWWW!!!!

BTW, you are young... age is just a number

 

[rosemadderlake]

One productive thing I can think of to do is to contact the Staten Island Advance and ask them to run a story. If we do this, I think it would need to be a group effort, with enough people sending emails within a short time, to get their attention. Maybe we should wait until mid-late August, and note that the anniversary of her disappearance is approaching.

If they do run a story, they will probably be able to access more information from LE, and would probably track down the brother and fiance for comment...

Just a thought, it's all I can think of to get any more info on this poor girl...

Odyssey
An additional thought would be to put this idea out there to the FB page—I know there was one with her friend’s comments. Maybe they will think it is a good idea, too? -Could be a joint effort or WS can assist?

We certainly have assembled much of the preliminary information right here on WS for the SI Advance. Include the preliminary info, with a letter asking them to consider a story highlighting Sylvia’s disappearance in 1975, and that people are still searching for her after all these years….

This would be compelling coming from classmates and friends.

 

[Dushi]

Odyssey
An additional thought would be to put this idea out there to the FB page—I know there was one with her friend’s comments. Maybe they will think it is a good idea, too? -Could be a joint effort or WS can assist?

We certainly have assembled much of the preliminary information right here on WS for the SI Advance. Include the preliminary info, with a letter asking them to consider a story highlighting Sylvia’s disappearance in 1975, and that people are still searching for her after all these years….

This would be compelling coming from classmates and friends.

A stretch.. but someone may remember something

 

[Saracen]

Odyssey
An additional thought would be to put this idea out there to the FB page—I know there was one with her friend’s comments. Maybe they will think it is a good idea, too? -Could be a joint effort or WS can assist?

We certainly have assembled much of the preliminary information right here on WS for the SI Advance. Include the preliminary info, with a letter asking them to consider a story highlighting Sylvia’s disappearance in 1975, and that people are still searching for her after all these years….

This would be compelling coming from classmates and friends.

Even local radio stations, especially around the anniversay of the day she went missing..

 

[rosemadderlake]

A stretch.. but someone may remember something

Yes, you never know. For the press, I think it is about how you angle the story. The press is constrained like WS. Without evidence otherwise, this is a missing woman with family and friends searching for her, for a very long time.

If the story comes from "remembrances of Sylvia" and "location last seen" it could well trigger someone's memory from back in the day.

It would also serve as part of the collective voice for other missing persons and, at the very least, let the world know people still care deeply and will never forget.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Even local radio stations, especially around the anniversay of the day she went missing..

Ha! Do they even have local radio anymore? Everything is so internet... Maybe twitter for a get the word out "Miss You Sylvia" message... FB is a great gathering hub.

I am always touched when I read the "In memory of", "we miss you", "always in our prayers" "never forget" messages that families put in the local newspapers marking an anniversary passing.

For Sylvia, it is an anniversary of missing her and not knowing; another year, another decade, a lifetime ago.

 

[Dushi]

Yes, you never know. For the press, I think it is about how you angle the story. The press is constrained like WS. Without evidence otherwise, this is a missing woman with family and friends searching for her, for a very long time.

If the story comes from "remembrances of Sylvia" and "location last seen" it could well trigger someone's memory from back in the day.

It would also serve as part of the collective voice for other missing persons and, at the very least, let the world know people still care deeply and will never forget.

ROSE Amen

This should be presented from a familys point of view

When something like this happens, there are many victims (family, close friends)

A rembrance, perfect

 

[Dushi]

Out for dinner
happy night to all

such great suggestions today!!

 

[Jmoose]

A stretch.. but someone may remember something

And might be more likely to say something now

 

[Odyssey]

(c) Most of his alleged victims are children, and he sometimes even boasted of his predilection for pedophilia, but he made exceptions. The text of a NY Daily News article printed on the above site says "In 1979, he was accused of raping a young woman and a 15-year-old girl, but neither pressed charges."



(5) Just FYI, here's an interesting first-hand account of what it was like to see same-age peers going missing during Rand's alleged later spree. Note this statement: "There is speculation that Andre Rand may be responsible for the disappearance of Audrey Lyn Nerenberg, an 18-year-old from Brooklyn (missing since 1977).")

Based on the MO of pedophilia, I initially dismissed Rand. I am now rethinking that. I wonder what the rest of you think?

<respectfully snipped>

I actually was one of the ones who pointed out Rand as a possibility... although I think it is a possibility, I think we need to keep in mind that every time a female went missing, "it must have been Andre Rand."

You might remember earlier in the thread, I mentioned that I had tried to contact NYPD about another case because things just weren't matching up - and I got no reply. That was about Andre Rand. I didn't want to get into another MP case in this thread, but I think I should explain now so you can see what the whole deal was with Rand.

If you look up the name Tiahease Jackson - she went missing from Staten Island, also from a major street, in August 1983. Everything you find online on Tiahease, is in the context of her being a Rand victim...

But if you look here, there is a NY Daily News article (post #3): http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases...Hughs-1981-Staten-IslandNew-York#.UU1LCjes9zY

And in January 1983, Rand drove to a Staten Island YMCA, enticed 11 children into his van and drove to Elizabeth, N.J., where he treated them to White Castle hamburgers. He then took them to Newark Airport, where they watched planes arrive and depart. On return to the YMCA five hours later, Rand was charged with unlawful imprisonment and served 10 months in jail.

bbm

So if he was arrested in January 1983, and served 10 months, how could he have been involved in Tiahease's August 1983 disappearance?

Some bloggers caught that - but it doesn't look like anyone ever got an answer about when Rand was released. They just reword it to say he was sentenced to 10 months, then speculate that he must have been released early, since he was named a suspect in Tiahease's case.

I was trying to get an answer to that question... but so far, I haven't.

I'm leaning toward thinking they later realized that he couldn't have been involved, but would rather not come out and say it... JMO, of course...

But it just shows how quick they were to implicate Rand when in this (Tiahease) case, I don't know that he could have even been involved...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

<respectfully snipped>

I actually was one of the ones who pointed out Rand as a possibility... although I think it is a possibility, I think we need to keep in mind that every time a female went missing, "it must have been Andre Rand."

You might remember earlier in the thread, I mentioned that I had tried to contact NYPD about another case because things just weren't matching up - and I got no reply. That was about Andre Rand. I didn't want to get into another MP case in this thread, but I think I should explain now so you can see what the whole deal was with Rand.

If you look up the name Tiahease Jackson - she went missing from Staten Island, also from a major street, in August 1983. Everything you find online on Tiahease, is in the context of her being a Rand victim ...

But if you look here, there is a NY Daily News article (post #3): http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases...Hughs-1981-Staten-IslandNew-York#.UU1LCjes9zY

And in January 1983, Rand drove to a Staten Island YMCA, enticed 11 children into his van and drove to Elizabeth, N.J., where he treated them to White Castle hamburgers. He then took them to Newark Airport, where they watched planes arrive and depart. On return to the YMCA five hours later, Rand was charged with unlawful imprisonment and served 10 months in jail.

bbm

So if he was arrested in January 1983, and served 10 months, how could he have been involved in Tiahease's August 1983 disappearance?

Some bloggers caught that - but it doesn't look like anyone ever got an answer about when Rand was released. They just reword it to say he was sentenced to 10 months, then speculate that he must have been released early, since he was named a suspect in Tiahease's case.

I was trying to get an answer to that question... but so far, I haven't.

I'm leaning toward thinking they later realized that he couldn't have been involved, but would rather not come out and say it... JMO, of course...

But it just shows how quick they were to implicate Rand when in this (Tiahease) case, I don't know that he could have even been involved...

Thanks so much for that thoughtful reply, Odyssey. Re the 1st part UL&BBM, I do remember you saying that. And I appreciate you taking the time to explain. Yes, the Daily News article is the same one I cite in my post (it's all over the Internet, to the exclusion of almost anything else), but I did not catch that (the observation BBU). What I read about some of the other victims (e.g., Audrey Lyn Nerenberg) seems thin in other ways as well.

However, after reading AR's history and own comments, I am left with a sense of his "appetite" and predatoriness that makes it easy to see why they would speculate in that direction. It's as though his full-time job was lurking in the shadows of SI, sniffing out vulnerable women, and plucking them from the streets. It would not be a stretch for someone like that to be trawling a strip mall in the midst of his haunting grounds, watching and waiting, to see the fight with the BF and sense SL's distress. Or, as I was thinking last night, for SL to walk right into his lair. I remember shortcutting, by myself, through isolated cemeteries and along railroad tracks in those years. She may have tried to do the same though the Greenbelt.

My own intuition leads me to believe that AR must have done great harm inside Willowbrook during the few years he worked there and later, when he was simply making it his home. Given that many of the residents there were wards of the state, the facility so severely understaffed, and so many residents in a such a state of abandonment, I suspect that deaths were not often investigated.

I have no more of a factual basis for suspecting AR as a strong possibility for SL's disappearance than anyone else has for their POVs. But for me, it's a plausible scenario. By contrast, I don't think the MO of SL's disappearance aligns with Biegenwald -- mainly bc he was sloppy and his bodies were discoverable. I also don't think the BF scenario aligns well, given some of the information about his family that is available on the Internet. It also interests me that this kind of activity abated after AR was put away.

After reading so much on AR, I watched the documentary Crospey last night, and apropos of other discussions on this thread, found it really interesting to see and hear SI/NYPD detectives who were involved in these cases, and have since retired, speak about their experiences. They are not necessarily the ones who were around when SL vanished, but I was left with the sense that they cared.

A quick question: Do you have any sources for the two Willowbrook nurses who disappeared, one of whom was found deceased -- Ethel Atwell -- and Shin Lee -- the one missing/not found)? I could find NOTHING, and I would have thought there would have been articles at least on Atwell.

Again, thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[Dushi]

LETS JUST SAY......

Mom went to the police station alone to file a missing persons report
She gave the description etc.

No investigation had started at this time

Could the last seen @ 6PM be the last time she was seen by Mom as no one else had been spoken to at the time of the PR?

JMO