NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[rosemadderlake]

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...nd-Missing-Maryland-New-Jersey-199390461.html

"The remains -- a skull found in August 2010 by a fishing boat in Ocean City, Md., and a tibia found in April 2011 by another fishing boat -- have been identified as Sylvia Cuttitta, 54.

The ID was made by the New Jersey State Police forensics division through DNA. The medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains."

The part I don't understand, how can the state police announce that the remains belong to this woman when the medical examiner is still working to positively identify the remains? Is it possible the remains belong to someone else?

bbm: I would be surprised if these remains found in the ocean in 2011 belonged to Sylvia Lwowski. Would human remains in the ocean even be in tact, or on the east coast after 35 plus years?

And I agree the article is not very clearly written.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I have been thinking about how the current publicity about Sylvia’s disappearance perhaps mirrors exactly what was felt by some (few or many) in 1975, but has now been expressed in a bigger way publicly in 2013 via the surrogate blogs and video, and through the speculations on this forum. Seems there were those who always felt they knew who was responsible and maybe this year has been cathartic in some way. It may not solve the mystery but it surely expresses the deeper anguish of those who loved her and have lived in the state of not knowing for so many years. It also seems that the “silence piece” in this case mirrors 1975 as well. With no perceptible clue, or body and possessions ever found, sadly, it has left me with big doubts as to whether her disappearance will ever be solved. It is a different kind of sadness for sure – I had big hopes for finding Sylvia.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I have been thinking about how the current publicity about Sylvia’s disappearance perhaps mirrors exactly what was felt by some (few or many) in 1975, but has now been expressed in a bigger way publicly in 2013 via the surrogate blogs and video, and through the speculations on this forum. Seems there were those who always felt they knew who was responsible and maybe this year has been cathartic in some way. It may not solve the mystery but it surely expresses the deeper anguish of those who loved her and have lived in the state of not knowing for so many years. It also seems that the “silence piece” in this case mirrors 1975 as well. With no perceptible clue, or body and possessions ever found, sadly, it has left me with big doubts as to whether her disappearance will ever be solved. It is a different kind of sadness for sure – I had big hopes for finding Sylvia.

BBM: It ain't over til it's over, Rose Hang tough.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM: It ain't over til it's over, Rose Hang tough.

Thanks, GBMG – good to see we are all still here. :seeya:
- I am rooting for Detroit tonight -Go Tigers!

 

[alliemay]

Hard to keep this thread going without more info from our VI's. The silence is really strange to me.

 

[Jmoose]

Hard to keep this thread going without more info from our VI's. The silence is really strange to me.

Me, too. Ironic that the reason she wasn't located in 1975 was that nobody wanted to publicize her disappearance, and silence is still the reason that no progress is being made.

 

[Jmoose]

If only Sylvia's family had not decided to keep her disappearance quiet-would we now know what happened to her? Maybe not, but we might be farther along.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Staten Island is the greenest of the NYC boroughs. Even though it has been developed to the max in certain areas, there are some very forward thinking planners and engineers working toward land and urban preservation. The Blue Belt video shows how many workers, engineers, scientists, and officials traverse and manage the land. I read the ships graveyard will not be dismantled because to do so would cause harm to the existing underwater eco-system. The historic neighborhoods and wooded trails are all potential places where a body may someday be found. But, if Sylvia ended up in the ocean, or Fresh Kills Landfill, her disappearance could remain a mystery forever.

I guess I was hoping for that definitive clue that would give a more absolute direction to her disappearance. I don’t feel I have a solid enough read on her engagement or nature of her relationship to really know if she was killed and disappeared that night, though it is a distinct possibility.
–Did she accept a ride from the wrong person that night?
–Go to Wagner and meet up with an unknown person?
–Accidently kill herself running through a treacherous landscape in a state of panic and fear?
–And, the rarer possibility, she is alive somewhere.
–Was she headed towards a nervous breakdown? It is possible, and if she wasn’t killed, a big clue as to which direction she may have gone could be in the argument that night, and perhaps some unknown pieces of her state mind before then. (imo)

Maybe the silence is the answer – because until her body is found, someone out there knows, and knows no one else knows… And, those who do not know are not getting involved in speculating on the internet, which is understandable, too.

I know we’ve covered all this before but I am bumping up the thoughts, anyway… It is remarkable how the significance of finding a body brings me into a laser focus on Sylvia when I hear a news report of human remains found, somewhere.

Historic neighborhoods -
http://forgotten-ny.com/2013/05/richmondtown-to-bulls-head-staten-island/


Blue Belt – man made wetlands for storm water runoff with future areas cited to be developed
Staten Island Bluebelt on Vimeo


Fresh Kills Windmills & Roads: Future plan for Landfill reclamation
Fresh Kills Windmills & Roads on Vimeo

 

[Jmoose]

Staten Island is the greenest of the NYC boroughs. Even though it has been developed to the max in certain areas, there are some very forward thinking planners and engineers working toward land and urban preservation. The Blue Belt video shows how many workers, engineers, scientists, and officials traverse and manage the land. I read the ships graveyard will not be dismantled because to do so would cause harm to the existing underwater eco-system. The historic neighborhoods and wooded trails are all potential places where a body may someday be found. But, if Sylvia ended up in the ocean, or Fresh Kills Landfill, her disappearance could remain a mystery forever.

I guess I was hoping for that definitive clue that would give a more absolute direction to her disappearance. I don’t feel I have a solid enough read on her engagement or nature of her relationship to really know if she was killed and disappeared that night, though it is a distinct possibility.
–Did she accept a ride from the wrong person that night?
–Go to Wagner and meet up with an unknown person?
–Accidently kill herself running through a treacherous landscape in a state of panic and fear?
–And, the rarer possibility, she is alive somewhere.
–Was she headed towards a nervous breakdown? It is possible, and if she wasn’t killed, a big clue as to which direction she may have gone could be in the argument that night, and perhaps some unknown pieces of her state mind before then. (imo)

Maybe the silence is the answer – because until her body is found, someone out there knows, and knows no one else knows… And, those who do not know are not getting involved in speculating on the internet, which is understandable, too.

I know we’ve covered all this before but I am bumping up the thoughts, anyway… It is remarkable how the significance of finding a body brings me into a laser focus on Sylvia when I hear a news report of human remains found, somewhere.

Historic neighborhoods -
http://forgotten-ny.com/2013/05/richmondtown-to-bulls-head-staten-island/


Blue Belt – man made wetlands for storm water runoff with future areas cited to be developed
Staten Island Bluebelt on Vimeo


Fresh Kills Windmills & Roads: Future plan for Landfill reclamation
Fresh Kills Windmills & Roads on Vimeo

Right on target, as always.

 

[rosemadderlake]

If only Sylvia's family had not decided to keep her disappearance quiet-would we now know what happened to her? Maybe not, but we might be farther along.

Bbm: It is an unfortunate twist of fate. Today, Sylvia’s disappearance would be all over the internet, Facebook, Twitter, Classmates, and Websleuths, blogs, videos, you name it… Would we be farther along in knowing what happened to Sylvia? That is a million dollar unknown question, Jmoose.

It was such a different time in 1975. I know it has been mentioned that there is the New Yorker, “none of our business” response to certain tragic situations and I think that was very true across the board for that era, in general. Tragedy defines and in some ways separates people from each other. I think of how alienating Sylvia’s disappearance must have been for her family, her nearest and dearest.

In another heartbreaking case, the disappearance of Steven Chait, gone missing from Columbia University in 1972, whose mother Gloria (like Eva) never gave up hope, said something in this article (quoted below) that, to me, really speaks to those dealing with the life-altering ‘aftermath of the unspeakable’. The article gives a glimpse as to the kind of strength it takes to carry on, the test of faith endured each and every day, told from the experience of this incredibly strong woman. She is one of many mothers in this situation, and hers is a particularly enlightening story in her willingness to share the details all these years later, in what must seem like so many lifetimes ago.

I think the article about Gloria Chait’s missing son speaks to the many that went missing from that era (particularly the ‘60’s and 70’s) which never generated the “national intrigue” or “massive emotional outpouring” and who are mourned quietly every day, and whose cases are still very much unsolved.

New York Times, 2007: For 35 Years, Waiting for News of a Missing Son
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/12/nyregion/12missing.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

“Ms. Chait, who is 78, has made new friends but rarely tells them about Steven. The tragedy of what happened, and the pained joy his memory brings, is so deeply ingrained in her that it has become almost too enormous to mention”.

 

[Jmoose]

Rose-I was familiar with the disappearance of Steven Chait, but I had never read this article before. Reading it made me so sad, and made me think that this woman, Gloria Chait, expressed what Eva Lwowski must have felt-and what the Lwowski family must have experienced.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/sto...-remains-found-in/q_SKhcXdSEqH_YXr4x1wag.cspx

I am glad when the newspapers inform us when remains are found, usually you don't hear any more information after that though. About 30 miles from where I live a skull was found on the side of a mountain, it's been about a year now. Even if they can't identify the skull you would think something would be printed in the local paper just to let us know, "hey we still don't know, but if anyone has any information," etc etc. It could jog someone's memory, someone who may not have seen the paper that day or saw the news. I just wish there they would do follow up stories on these incidents.

 

[Jmoose]

You know, after reading the Times article about Steven Chait, and the phone calls his mother got, I started wondering if the Lwowskis had the same experience-phone calls where nobody was there at regular times, leaving them wondering if it was Sylvia calling? I wonder if this could have contributed to Eva's thought that Sylvia took off?

 

[alliemay]

Wish there were dental records for her, not sure where I read it, but I did read that more bodies are identified by dental records than by DNA.

 

[alliemay]

https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll...d=kZlo-A3CgiSmaHEG6yGgEg&cbp=12,35.16,,0,3.24

I wonder how much the appearance of the house has changed since then?
....and it seems like it was only about five miles from her house to Richmond Avenue.

 

[alliemay]

It all started with painting for my folks. Then word of mouth spread and we had more jobs than we could handle. '73 or '74?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-204582-p-2.html

"....It took a while to get the paint out of our hair. I think that took care of the summers of 72 & 74. We had decided to take off the summer of 75 as we figured we would be working after that. The summer of 73 I worked for my dad at his office answering the phone. Don't recall what SL did that summer."

I knew if I had the time to search for that I would find it. So we are not sure what Sylvia did the summer of 73. They didn't do anything the summer of 75 because they figured that they would be working after that, I wonder if either of them put in any job applications anywhere, where did either of them plan on working. I would think for Sylvia, since there was no official wedding date announced yet that she would have been thinking about what type of job to look for.

 

[rosemadderlake]

https://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll...d=kZlo-A3CgiSmaHEG6yGgEg&cbp=12,35.16,,0,3.24

I wonder how much the appearance of the house has changed since then?
....and it seems like it was only about five miles from her house to Richmond Avenue.

Skeet -Fyi, the map link is to the Oakwood Heights Station on Guyon Ave... (?) which is not far from SL's address on Goodall.

 

[rosemadderlake]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-204582-p-2.html

"....It took a while to get the paint out of our hair. I think that took care of the summers of 72 & 74. We had decided to take off the summer of 75 as we figured we would be working after that. The summer of 73 I worked for my dad at his office answering the phone. Don't recall what SL did that summer."

I knew if I had the time to search for that I would find it. So we are not sure what Sylvia did the summer of 73. They didn't do anything the summer of 75 because they figured that they would be working after that, I wonder if either of them put in any job applications anywhere, where did either of them plan on working. I would think for Sylvia, since there was no official wedding date announced yet that should would have been thinking about what type of job to look for.

bbm 1: Skeet, thanks for bringing that forward... Would '73 be the summer she met her BF/F? They were together for 18-24 months, IIRC...

bbm 2: Good question - maybe she had applied for jobs - IIRC: Eva was concerned about 'Sylvia's job prospects' which was a reason for 'no publicity' on the PR when SL disappeared.

MMQC - When you have a chance, could you fill us in a bit more on the job question? If Sylvia was looking for work, there may be a connection, a person, or a place not thought of previously. Did she have aspirations to work in the biology field? Even if she did, there was a big recession in the 70's and I know many were grateful just to have a job and college grads often worked jobs that had nothing to do with their major.

 

[alliemay]

Skeet -Fyi, the map link is to the Oakwood Heights Station on Guyon Ave... (?) which is not far from SL's address on Goodall.

Thanks for catching that, I think I had that other address in my search engine for another case I was looking at.

If you type in 63 Goodall Street there is a picture of a house with red brick on the bottom and white siding on top. It looks like a double block though, I wonder when Sylvia lived there if it was just a one house unit.

 

[Jmoose]

Thanks for catching that, I think I had that other address in my search engine for another case I was looking at.

If you type in 63 Goodall Street there is a picture of a house with red brick on the bottom and white siding on top. It looks like a double block though, I wonder when Sylvia lived there if it was just a one house unit.

Didn't MMQC say at one time that her brother lived in the other side of the Lwowski's house before Sylvia disappeared? If I undertand your question, you're asking if the house, at one time, was not a duplex? I think it always was.