GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

[gitana1]

Keep in mind the plug was found in their apartment. That doesn't tell us WHEN the plug was removed because she could've removed it on the day of the murder and kept it for some reason. Or, it could've been removed beforehand and left at home.

It is strange that he made it TO the island without incident and only capsized on the way back.

Very strange.

Gitana,
Would charges and/or penalties be different? Would she be facing more prison time in one jurisdiction over the other? I guess I'm asking if she had the choice, what would be the better jurisdiction from her point of view. Or doesn't it really matter?
TIA

I'm not versed in federal law but federal penalties are not necessarily harsher.

And, perhaps falsely.

One need look no further than a few miles down the Hudson for ample evidence that confessions to crimes do not always correspond with actual involvement in them.

NYC has already paid out $41 million in damages to the defendants in the 1989 Central Park jogger case--a judgment meted out partly because of unlawful coercion of the defendants by law enforcement to implicate themselves in a crime they did not commit.

For your perusal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Central_Park_Five

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/20/n...r-case-are-to-settle-suit-for-40-million.html

==========================================

I don't know whether AG is guilty as charged or not, but I certainly wouldn't hang her on the basis of her confession.

Maybe we could wait for her trial to end first, at the least.

We are all aware of the phenomena of false confessions. A cite to one case involving juveniles who confessed in the 90's is not ample evidence of anything. Except regarding their own case.

Most convictions are won based on confessions. So while some wouldn't convict based on a confession, most jurors would.

Further, the stats are very clear regarding false confessions and AG does not fit the profile:

30% of cases involve multiple confessions by several innocent suspects.
63% of false confessors were under the age of 25, and 32% were under 18.
22% were intellectually disabled.
93% of those who falsely confess are men.

https://www.eaplstudent.com/component/content/article/124-false-confessions
http://www.falseconfessions.org/fact-a-figures

The profile of the false confessor is a juvenile male with an intellectual disability. That's not AG.

It's close to the vest as there is little to play, perhaps.

In 99% of the cases it's close to the vest.

Does anyone else find this odd? Sent pictures to whom? I wonder what was on those pictures.

I think she sent text messages to the couple with photos of them on the island in order to establish a partial alibi of sorts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/27/n...away-as-fiance-died-prosecutors-say.html?_r=0

Aw come on! The prosecution or someone is clearly lying! AG is innocent! No one saw her fling herself into the water! (Lol).

I still can't understand what's going trough AG mind. Apparently she deliberately took VV kayak plug out and kept it and took it home? Then she basically made incriminating statements to LE... that definitely doesn't make any sense, it sounds like she wanted to get caught?! Just MOO as usual.

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Early reports indicated that AG eventually confessed when confronted with multiple inconsistencies with her story. She probably figured she'd been caught. I do not believe most criminals are very smart.

 

[silly1]

Maybe AG was texting those folks? Are you home? We're paddling to the island, can you see us? Then sent them pics? IDK

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[silly1]

Am getting the feeling that there was alot of preplanning with Vincent's murder.

Totally agree.

 

[wfgodot]

Oh yes, totally planned. She did the deed in front of The Couple with the Telescope, people who knew her and who she knew watched activity on the river.

 

[JerseyGirl]

BBM there is a similar comment here:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/hudson-river-kayak-mystery-vincent-viafores-body-idd/story?id=31307061

I had suggested rocks in his storage hatch previously, because I just can't see how a little plug could have that effect, especially because he paddled out there with no problem.

If she put rocks in his hatch, wouldn't his kayak go down closer to the shoreline where he pushed off rather than in the middle of the Hudson?

It still doesn't make sense to me how she tampered with his kayak, other than the police finding that the plug was missing. And I still believe that there would not have been enough water to get into that tiny hole to cause the kayak to turn over, he did supposedly cling to that kayak for 5-10 minutes before he disappeared.

 

[BunnyHop]

If she put rocks in his hatch, wouldn't his kayak go down closer to the shoreline where he pushed off rather than in the middle of the Hudson? not necessarily, it would take a while as he struggled to paddle.

It still doesn't make sense to me how she tampered with his kayak, other than the police finding that the plug was missing. And I still believe that there would not have been enough water to get into that tiny hole to cause the kayak to turn over, he did supposedly cling to that kayak for 5-10 minutes before he disappeared.

Hi JG,
Since day one I was trying to think how she could have "tampered with" his kayak. That plug doesn't do it for me, 2 cents.

Years back I started kayaking. First was Long Island Sound, with guides in sea kayaks. Next I did white water, also with guides. One gal dumped her boat and dislocated her shoulder trying to get to her capsized boat.

I settled for flat, calm water, everywhere from NJ to Florida.
I moved to a lake and bought my own. For me, it was an investment.
$500 for boat, $100 for paddle, $75 for PFD.

I also passed my basic sailing certification on LI Sound and was a member of Ferry Sloops (Pete Seeger river keepers)

I paddled Bannerman with a male friend who drove down from Albany.
He had 2 sea kayaks, we were both experienced. Bannermans at that time was keep out. Very unfriendly environment. We departed from Cold Spring, we did not cross the river, it was also summer.

Back to "tampering". If you go by the pics of red and blue boats (time stamp 2007) His boat has a storage hatch with a lid. This is for keeping things dry.
While at the island, she may have put rocks in there, which would weigh him down making it harder to paddle. If his boat capsized, plastic tops pops off, there's a chance the rocks would dislodge and sink. Just thinking out loud.

 

[silly1]

Oh yes, totally planned. She did the deed in front of The Couple with the Telescope, people who knew her and who she knew watched activity on the river.

While I get that it seems far-fetched, I believe it all points to the ELABORATE RUSE that the investigators had mentioned numerous times.

I truly believe there was a lot if planning that went into this. The fact that they are not ruling out an accomplice I think is interesting. I do think COD will be drowning but since no mention of gun or other trauma has been noted, I think toxicology will be the key.

Perhaps like others have suggested she lured him out there for a photography session or maybe something she claimed she lost on the island that she needed to find (jewelry perhaps?). Perhaps she "forgot" her life vest and he gave her his because he wanted her to be safe and they really needed to get to that island. Perhaps she drugged him and he somehow got sluggish or passed out while on the way back. Combine that with the rough water and no drain plug causing the kayak to become unsteady. He falls out, goes under, and drowns.

Perhaps she sent the pictures when they were first there to establish her story. Even if the friends with the telescope did view them, it's highly unlikely that they would have been staring at them the entire time.

The investigators are keeping things close to the vest for obvious reasons. Hopefully people will come forward and shed more light on their relationship, if she was involved with anyone else, where they were before he died, and any other information that pertains to her personality.

I think she almost pulled off the perfect crime. Who would suspect a woman who appears to be spiritual, is into yoga, who volunteers at an animal sanctuary and Bannerman's island, and appears in love with her fiancee would be capable of murder?

 

[JerseyGirl]

From the Canoe & Kayak website:

“With no life vest, no leash fastening him to his kayak, no skirt to prevent water from splashing in and knowing what the water temperature was, he’s the master of his own destiny,” Portale, her attorney, said. “And now they’re trying to blame my client.”

First, prosecutors will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Viafore’s death was no accident. That could be a challenging task, given that Graswald and Viafore disregarded so many safe kayaking taboos.

A photo Graswald posted to facebook after Viafore’s dissapearance shows her paddling a sit-inside recreational kayak without a PFD or sprayskirt. She is holding the paddle upside down.

http://www.canoekayak.com/news/new-details-in-kayak-murder-case/

 

[BunnyHop]

From the Canoe & Kayak website:



http://www.canoekayak.com/news/new-details-in-kayak-murder-case/

Thanks JG. Yes, her paddle is upside down, she's also close to shore.
Kayaks don't have leash's (SMH) Surf boards, yes.

Remember on that April day, the leaves were not yet out on the trees.

 

[wfgodot]

While I get that it seems far-fetched, I believe it all points to the ELABORATE RUSE that the investigators had mentioned numerous times.

snip

Do you have a link to an LE source using that phrase? Right now I can only find it in the fevered prose of a tabloid caption writer.

If there's one thing I don't think think about AG it's that she is the sort to be able to manufacture "an elaborate ruse." The incident happened in sight of witnesses. Careful cunning? No. Madcap antic? -- sadly, perhaps.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Thanks JG. Yes, her paddle is upside down, she's also close to shore.
Kayaks don't have leash's (SMH) Surf boards, yes.

Remember on that April day, the leaves were not yet out on the trees.

I don't think that picture of her in the kayak was taken after he disappeared because she's wearing a tank top and I doubt she would have been wearing one on the Hudson in mid-April. I think the magazine posted it to show that she was not too knowledgeable about kayaks or safety issues.

 

[BunnyHop]

I don't think that picture of her in the kayak was taken after he disappeared because she's wearing a tank top and I doubt she would have been wearing one on the Hudson in mid-April. I think the magazine posted it to show that she was not too knowledgeable about kayaks or safety issues.

That picture could have been taken anytime so it holds no value to me.
Just like all my pics I have on my computer.
I take most news reports with a grain of salt.

 

[hot cawfeee]

Do we know who Vincent spoke with, texted, emailed etc his last week and specifically the last hours of his life ?

 

[BunnyHop]

I find it interesting that her Facebook profile hasn't been removed. In so many cases the accused's FB account disappears quickly after arrest, which I've always assumed was due to lawyers' recommendation to their clients. And her account seems like it would only work against her. Just some thoughts.

One of the first observations I had, was her FB page.
I found it interesting that prior to the accident, she posted no pics of him.

Then after the accident, pics galore. That was very telling to me. Moo.

 

[BunnyHop]

The fact that they are not ruling out an accomplice I think is interesting.

This^

 

[wfgodot]

This^

The fact that they are not ruling out an accomplice I think is interesting.

Is there a link to ^ this info? Not doubting the veracity;
LE seems greatly content to try this case first via media.

 

[BunnyHop]

Is there a link to ^ this info? Not doubting the veracity;
LE seems greatly content to try this case first via media.

It was the other day after press conference, someone else posted the link.

 

[epiphany]

DA:

No comment on whether one suspect or a conspiracy

Re tampering of the kayak: "...and an item on the paddle"

Bumping up for wfgodot

DA responded to question at the last presser

Prob need to be 100% sure that she has or had no other, in this case, male lover (that VV was unaware of)

 

[silly1]

DA:

No comment on whether one suspect or a conspiracy

Re tampering of the kayak: "...and an item on the paddle"

This is where I was drawing the conclusion that they haven't ruled out an accomplice. Maybe I should have said "haven't publicly ruled out an accomplice.". It was stated in one of the linked articles as well. As soon as I find it I'll provide a link.

 

[silly1]

Do we know who Vincent spoke with, texted, emailed etc his last week and specifically the last hours of his life ?

Nothing that has been publicly released in the media.