GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

[gitana1]

My prediction is that when all is said and done she will walk free on a hung jury and the prosecution won't retry the case. I think that given the circumstances - recklessness on the part of VV including drinking, no life jacket, time of day, etc, plus the appearance and size of AG - that at least one, maybe more, juror will not be able to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Based on her reported confession I predict guilty of second degree murder. Jurors are not going to be happy hearing what she said.

 

[gitana1]

Her lawyer goes from him having a few beers to thinking they will find acute alcohol poisoning. That's quite a range there! The drinking aspect sure seems to be growing and growing in his statements.

Will they be able to reliably assess his BAC in the tox tests?

How long was he in the water? I bet it's going to be very hard to determine his alcohol level. But I'm not an expert.

<snip>

Meanwhile, Graswald appeared in court armed with new recruits on her defense team. The experts hired to prove her innocence now include co-counsel Jeffrey Chartier, who successfully represented two MTA train engineers involved in fatal crashes; John Fleming, a retired NYPD homicide detective; and forensic scientist Michael Archer.

Portale refused to say how Graswald, who used to work as a waitress and bartender, would pay for their services, calling the question inappropriate.

BBM

http://nypost.com/2015/05/29/kayak-killer-says-fiance-was-wasted-when-he-capsized/

So who's paying for this defense?

I'm speculating that perhaps one or more accounts were joint, and she had and maybe still has access to the account/s...but wouldn't his half share have been frozen as soon as she was ??--unsure at what point this may have occurred, if at all.

Or is it similar to an impending divorce situation, where one party can empty the joint bank account prior to submitting papers, etc and the other must then proceed through the legal system to poss regain his/her portion?

My other thought is perhaps an interested party is funding her defense.

Gitana or anyone else: When would her defense have to state how they are being paid?

They certainly are working hard for AG at this point imo. Two recent NYT articles illustrate defense is savvy and smart: no apples please.

They don't have to say. And look, this question comes up all the time. These high profile cases are a huge boon to defense attorneys. Free, incredible advertising, name recognition, immediate higher prestige.

At at some point they may attempt to have the state pay their fees like what happened in the Casey Anthony case. But otherwise they are willing to take the gamble of non-payment. Believe me.

I must admit I am really :fence: with this one. If she did do something to cause this, I hope they have more than what has been released because with what we have so far, it could easily be chalked up to accident and poor communication and a lack of judgment on her part. That doesn't equal murder IMO.

I really can't see how, "I felt trapped in the relationship. I tampered with his kayak. I moved his paddle away from him. I felt happy as I watched him die. I can't wait to spend the insurance money." can be attributed to poor communication. But defense attorneys are smart. They plant and idea and bam- it takes off. Despite the fact that we've heard the quite articulate and fluent defendant speak, suddenly people are willing to buy what the defense is saying.

It's the Chewabacca defense. And it works.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Here are the links to the NY state statutes. borndem:

New York First Degree Murder Laws - FindLaw 125.27
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-first-degree-murder-laws.html
New York Second Degree Murder Laws - FindLaw 125.25
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-second-degree-murder-laws.html
New York Voluntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw 125.20
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html



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[sunflowerchick]

I really can't see how, "I felt trapped in the relationship. I tampered with his kayak. I moved his paddle away from him. I felt happy as I watched him die. I can't wait to spend the insurance money." can be attributed to poor communication. But defense attorneys are smart. They plant and idea and bam- it takes off. Despite the fact that we've heard the quite articulate and fluent defendant speak, suddenly people are willing to buy what the defense is saying.

SBM

My doubt comes from the fact that we don't know what she said word for word. It is possible that LE (or media) has "twisted" her wording because they believe she is guilty. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

 

[gitana1]

SBM

My doubt comes from the fact that we don't know what she said word for word. It is possible that LE (or media) has "twisted" her wording because they believe she is guilty. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

Well then, respectfully, if it happens all the time, can you cite to 4 or 5 such cases in recent history? My law partner is a criminal defense attorney. In my experience, the opposite of what you say is true- rarely does the state exaggerate what was said in a statement/confession or surveillance recording, with the exception of things like traffic cops or whatever who may make up stuff to justify a search or a traffic stop. In murder investigations? Especially high profile ones? No.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Hudson River Kayak Case: Angelika Graswald Pleads Not Guilty - ABC News
May 29, 2015 12:30 pm
According to the comments by the reporter at the end of the embedded video at link below, the defense attorneys were able to get the approval for observing the autopsy.

That's news to me. I haven't seen that in print anywhere. I thought it was already completed.

:thinking:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/hudson-river-kayak-case-angelika-graswald-pleads-guilty/story?id=31388687



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[wfgodot]

Interesting LA Tmes long overview:

Kayak murder case has created some national buzz

 

[silly1]

SBM

My doubt comes from the fact that we don't know what she said word for word. It is possible that LE (or media) has "twisted" her wording because they believe she is guilty. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

Our LE doesn't have a reputation for twisting words, especially our State Troopers. Yes, I understand we see some crazy things that police have done but I have to believe that they are outliers. There are good and bad in every profession. This is definitely not some wild conspiracy.

Also, everyone has different writing styles and levels of reading/listening comprehension thus the reasons for 10 different reporters having at times what appears to be differing facts. Again, in my opinion not some wild conspiracy to make people believe she is guilty. I think she did that all on her own.

 

[silly1]

Interesting LA Tmes long overview:

Kayak murder case has created some national buzz

Interesting mention of a similar case that was the basis of a novel and movie. Hmmmm?????? Could she have studied up on these, so to speak, in order to try to pull of a perfect crime?

 

[OldSteve]

SBM

My doubt comes from the fact that we don't know what she said word for word. It is possible that LE (or media) has "twisted" her wording because they believe she is guilty. Unfortunately it happens all the time.

If I were on the jury, what I'd like to see is a video tape of saying what she said. I want to see how it came about that said these things.

 

[borndem]

Here are the links to the NY state statutes. borndem:

New York First Degree Murder Laws - FindLaw 125.27
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-first-degree-murder-laws.html
New York Second Degree Murder Laws - FindLaw 125.25
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-second-degree-murder-laws.html
New York Voluntary Manslaughter Laws - FindLaw 125.20
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html



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Excellent, Kimi -- just what I wanted to see, but I'm not familiar enuff with each state's statute law resource to dig them up. I only know how to "drive" the NC State Statutes!

Thanks, my sweet friend!

 

[OldSteve]

Interesting LA Tmes long overview:

Kayak murder case has created some national buzz

Reading the article in the above^

&#8220;Initially, we believed her to be the survivor of a tragic accident,&#8221; Police Maj. Patrick Regan said after Graswald&#8217;s arrest. -

Wow, scary - makes you think about how a person could get away with murder by simply keeping quite....

&#8220;Even if she doesn&#8217;t understand what you&#8217;re saying, she&#8217;ll answer it in an affirmative tone,&#8221; Portale said of Graswald,

I figured they would use this, but let's hope they have video of her being questioned. I imagine she gets caught up in trying to come with, well (how does it go) the truth has only one version, while a lie has many.

 

[frisson]

I cant open links. Is she a citizen? Was she born here? To become a citizen one has to pass a test/s and have command of English (in my friends' experiences.)

 

[kimi_SFC]

I cant open links. Is she a citizen? Was she born here? To become a citizen one has to pass a test/s and have command of English (in my friends' experiences.)

Hi frisson,

IIRC, she is not a citizen. Here's a snip from a DM article.

Angelika Graswald worked near river she claimed fiancee Vincent Viafore disappeared in | Daily Mail Online

Updated May 21, 2015

Mr Caplan said that Viafore had visited Bannerman Island with Graswald once last year but members of his organization didn't get to know him as well as they knew his wife-to-be, who was born in Latvia.

Images posted to online sites show an active, affectionate couple who enjoy spending time outdoors, particularly on the water, and a message about their plans to be married at a spot on the Baltic Sea.

Graswald formerly lived in Connecticut, where newspaper accounts show her winning honors in local photography contests. Records show she married twice there and divorced at least once.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accident-police-reveal-not-victim-s-body.html

I'm not certain of her exact immigration status. Perhaps one of my fellow WSers can chime in with the precise details. I will see what else I can find.
HTH.....


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[frisson]

Hi frisson,

IIRC, she is not a citizen. Here's a snip from a DM article.

Angelika Graswald worked near river she claimed fiancee Vincent Viafore disappeared in | Daily Mail Online

Updated May 21, 2015

Mr Caplan said that Viafore had visited Bannerman Island with Graswald once last year but members of his organization didn't get to know him as well as they knew his wife-to-be, who was born in Latvia.

Images posted to online sites show an active, affectionate couple who enjoy spending time outdoors, particularly on the water, and a message about their plans to be married at a spot on the Baltic Sea.

Graswald formerly lived in Connecticut, where newspaper accounts show her winning honors in local photography contests. Records show she married twice there and divorced at least once.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...accident-police-reveal-not-victim-s-body.html

I'm not certain of her exact immigration status. Perhaps one of my fellow WSers can chime in with the precise details. I will see what else I can find.
HTH.....


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thank you! I have friends and loved ones who became citizens and English is a big deal in the process (according to my experience with them.) Thanks. So now I wonder... did she have a visa? was she married to an American after coming here legally and obtaining legal resident status via marriage etc? I guess what I'm getting at is if there is going to be a claim of "I dont' speak English" that is going to rub me so wrong... unless I see some other videos in which she is struggling to understand - which would be kind of odd ....after having many videos/interviews in which she clearly did understand and responded appropriately as someone who most certainly does understand. I just cant buy such things as "I'm happy he's dead...drowned" (ok now I'm paraphrasing) but I cant see that as being cultural. That seems personal and serious and cold to me. FWIW I'm not at all anti-immigrant, far from it, in case it may be read that way.

 

[silly1]

I cant open links. Is she a citizen? Was she born here? To become a citizen one has to pass a test/s and have command of English (in my friends' experiences.)

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...pleads-guilty-kayaker-fiancs-murder/28181813/

Graswald, who is originally from Latvia and is in the U.S. with a permanent resident card.

 

[silly1]

thank you! I have friends and loved ones who became citizens and English is a big deal in the process (according to my experience with them.) Thanks. So now I wonder... did she have a visa? was she married to an American after coming here legally and obtaining legal resident status via marriage etc? I guess what I'm getting at is if there is going to be a claim of "I dont' speak English" that is going to rub me so wrong... unless I see some other videos in which she is struggling to understand - which would be kind of odd ....after having many videos/interviews in which she clearly did understand and responded appropriately as someone who most certainly does understand. I just cant buy such things as "I'm happy he's dead...drowned" (ok now I'm paraphrasing) but I cant see that as being cultural. That seems personal and serious and cold to me. FWIW I'm not at all anti-immigrant, far from it, in case it may be read that way.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Missing-New-York-Hudson-River-302204221.html

A calm, soft-spoken Graswald told NBC 4 New York Friday she came to the United States when she was 15 and worked for a few months as a nanny in Greenwich, Connecticut. She had no legal right to be in the U.S. at the time, she said, but she has a green card now. Graswald said she got her first real job tending bar at the age of 21 and is relying on emotional support from her family in Latvia now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/14/n...r-kayaker-accused-of-killing-fiance.html?_r=0

Ms. Graswald, who first came to this country from Latvia at age 20 as an au pair for a family in Connecticut.


http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/...elika-graswald-poughkeepsie-profile/26742931/
Graswald is not a U.S. citizen, he said, but has a green card valid until 2018.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Removed by me.

 

[sunflowerchick]

Removed by me.

 

[silly1]

You assume that they are reporting accurately what she actually said but I would guess the reporters weren't in the room when she was being questioned so they don't know.

For what it's worth, I didn't post my opinion to have to defend myself or to argue with everyone who disagrees. I also didn't say I think she is innocent. I said I DON'T KNOW! I have doubts and that's ok. Please stop attacking me.

:sorry: Sorry if you felt attacked by me. That was totally not my intent. :whiteflag: I was just trying to provide an opinion from a local who lives and works in the communities involved. Differing opinions are great because they open up the discussion and allow people to banter back and forth. As of right now, the only thing I assume is that AG is the only one who truly knows what happened that evening. Everyone else is just trying to make sense of this baffling story. I value the words of my LE and DA over the media, FWIW.