OH - Annabelle Richardson, newborn, found in shallow grave, Carlisle, 7 May 2017 #1

[Hope4More]

[gitana1, post: 15392616, member: 6459"]I don't think you're necessarily in the minority. We shall see what evidence there is. And whether these detectives who kept reassuring her and calling her sweetheart "coerced" her into confessing to squeezing her baby too hard and admitting the baby was moving and gurgling prior to that, on the second day of interrogation.

Agree that whether or not the jurors think her confession was coerced will be key.

The only people I have seen angrily dissecting other's point of view are those who believe there has been a witch hunt. Not those who believe she killed her infant.

I must have missed the angry dissections, or the angry anything on this thread. This is actually one of the least contentious, most respectful WS threads I've been on over the years, one that hasn't devolved into US v THEM, and WE'RE RIGHT, Y'ALL JUST PLAIN WRONG camps. Yay that.

 

[Gardenista]

Guess I'm in the minority here because all I can see is a sick girl and a witch hunt by the state. The state can't show physical evidence of murder and dismally failed with their sensational burning baby ruse along with the postmortem skull fractures used to incite the masses. Add to that, some of the state's witnesses have been less than helpful to the point that they should be unemployed. The defense attorney is doing a good job and I am waiting for him to lay bare the coercion used during those wretched interrogations of Sky. I could go on and on but I realize some people make up their minds and stick to their viewpoint no matter what. BTW I really like Dr. Latham and Attorney Charles H. Rittgers as they are both appear to be very accomplished in their fields. That should earn me some boo's from the peanut gallery.

I just joined one of the FB groups for the case. They are taking a poll and there are more people who are either Undecided/NG/Hung/Guilty on the lesser charges categories than those who think she is G of murder. So we aren't really in the minority.

I'm in the NG/Undecided/Guilty of the lesser charges areas.

 

[Seattle1]

KIM: (Sniffling). it’s really hard for me right now. I’ve lost my (?), I’m stressed about Jackson (sniffs).

I recall Kim making this all about her own grief -- she lost her dad that year, and stressed about her son Jackson for some reason.

 

[Knox]

I recall Kim making this all about her own grief -- she lost her dad that year, and stressed about her son Jackson for some reason.

If her concern was about the effect this would have on him, I guess my earlier question is answered.

 

[Wishbone]

I'm new to this case and don't have all the details. But on first blush I'm going to say I sort of agree with you. Strictly from a parental point of view, I really feel compassion for this girl. It seems to me she is a product of her raising and there is generational dysfunctional parenting going on (Mom). I'd be very curious to know if the Mom's relationship with her son is vastly different than with Skylar?

Legally, I think there needs to be a consequence. I'm just not sure it should have been brought to trial. As a parent, I would have done all in my power to try to initiate a plea deal. As I said, I'm not fully up to speed, just offering some thoughts.

So you have someone sitting in the minority with you Wishbone.

Nice to know I have company. If you watch ALL the testimony and search out various articles you'll get up to speed quickly. I breezed through a few of the issues in my post but you should read and see for yourself. Legally she will have consequences but I don't think murder will be one of them. I've stayed away from looking at the mother as I am waiting to hear her testimony since she is on the witness list. Some of the things I've read from different posts make me wonder about her relationship with Sky. I too am curious about the brother as well. Right now I see her family supporting her and they have made sure she has good representation, so thats a plus.

 

[Wishbone]

I just joined one of the FB groups for the case. They are taking a poll and there are more people who are either Undecided/NG/Hung/Guilty on the lesser charges categories than those who think she is G of murder. So we aren't really in the minority.

I'm in the NG/Undecided/Guilty of the lesser charges areas.

I'm glad to hear so many are in favor of the lesser charges.

 

[ilovematt]

The State's opening already revealed what Skylar "confessed" to during the 2nd interrogation:

1. That the baby was alive for about 5 minutes.
2. That she saw the baby's arms move.
3. That she heard the baby "gurgle."
4. That she squeezed the baby hard and might have killed her.
5. That she used a lighter on the baby's foot in order to "cremate her a little bit."

The defense has been & will continue to argue that Skylar's confession was coerced (false confession); that LE's pursuit of her after the first interview was recklessly hasty & predicated on the erroneous premise that the baby's bones were "charred;" and that there is no physical evidence the baby was born alive, much less that Skylar killed her, much less that the baby was alive and that Skylar knowingly killed her.

The jury will have to decide whether or not they believe Skylar's confession was coerced. If they believe it was, and especially if they also find her sympathetic, imo there is little to no possibility they'll convict her of aggravated murder.

To convict her of aggravated murder the jury will have to believe: that the baby was born alive; that Skylar knew the baby was born alive; and that Skylar intentionally killed her.

Sorry this is an icky question... be warned.

Did BS think that the baby would just ignite into flames? Like you use the toe as a wick? (Sorry) Surely she knows you’d need an accelerant since she was an honors student. The whole mental picture is just too much. Also, my next question is legit but gruesome.. would burning the toe of a baby leaving an open lesion or blister speed up the decomp process or was the amount of time in the ground on par with what one would typically “look” like when dig up? A baby that is. I’d assume the bigger the corpse the longer to decompose?

 

[buttonbaby]

Family dynamics….the 1st interview.
-------------------------------------------

DAD: You should have told us.

SKYLAR: I thought you’d be mad at me.

KIM (MOTHER): and we’re not now?

KIM: Kids get pregnant every day. Pregnancy is not the end of the world.

SKYLAR: I’m so sorry

DAD: What did they tell you?

SKYLAR: I think they want to know if I killed it myself.

KIM: Yah. You’ll go to jail.

SKYLAR: I didn’t though. I know.

SKYLAR: I promised them I didn’t do anything.

DAD: You know. But they don’t know.

KIM: You know, I had the perfect life..

DAD: Who is the father?

KIM: You lied to me about him (Tre). You lied to me about so much. And now you expect me (to go through this?).

SKYLAR: I didn’t lie…

DAD: You did lie…

SKYLAR: Not about…I didn’t hurt her.

DAD: Here’s the thing. What’s done is done. It would have been so much better if you’d told us. They’re over there digging up something we had no idea was there. Your mother didn’t even know you were pregnant.

DAD: Can you imagine the horror of what we just went through, not knowing what was going on?

SKYLAR: Yes. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

DAD: I know you’re sorry, honey, but lying is….

SKYLAR: I was completely honest with them.

DAD: But you lied to US.

KIM: I could have helped you.

SKYLAR: I know but you would have been so mad at me

DAD: The thing is, we can’t fix this. There isn’t anything we can…

KIM: You’ll go to jail. It’s in the papers. It’s everywhere. The neighbors already called me. And I know she’s telling me that they’re digging up in the back yard. You’re going to be in the news. How do you think (lists family member names) will feel?

SKYLAR: Mom, please support me. I didn’t..

KIM: Skylar, I am supporting you. I’m just saying…

DAD: (father wrestles with why didn’t you tell us) I know you’re sorry. I know you didn’t mean it. But you have to understand this is the worst possible scenario you could possibly have put us in

SKYLAR: I know. I’m sorry. I’ll do anything to fix it.

DAD: You can’t.

SKYLAR: I know

DAD: Do you swear you never looked up anything on the internet about that kind of thing?

SKYLAR: No. I told them everything.

SKYLAR: They’re going to take me to prison.

KIM: Yes, you gave to be prepared for that.

DAD: No. stop. Let’s not go there yet.

SKYLAR: Mommy, I love you.

KIM: Skylar, I love you. (flatly, almost mocking Skylar, imo).

SKYLAR: Can you ever forgive me?

DAD: I think we can forgive you, but you will have to never lie to us again

SKYLAR: I would never have to….

KIM: Skylar, you are not going not going home with us.

DAD: Honey, don’t start that….

KIM: Skylar, I’m telling you, it makes me sick, but you know that bag of popcorn you had, you’ll never finish …

DAD: Honey, please stop

SKYLAR: Moooom

SKYLAR: Do you know how that makes me feel?

KIM: Do you have any idea how WE feel?


SKYLAR: I never would (?) , never hurt a baby (?) by myself…

KIM: I would have helped you. I have told you so many times I’m always going to be here for you if you just tell me. I’ve always told you I love you. How do you think I feel losing MY baby?

SKYLAR: I’m sorry mommy

KIM: I’m losing MY child. And I’ve done everything right.

SKYLAR: You have! You…

DAD: Please stop, you guys. Both. We need to stop this right now. We don’t know what is going to happen yet.

KIM: (Sniffling). it’s really hard for me right now. I’ve lost my (?), I’m stressed about Jackson (sniffs).

Silence. Husband is sitting next to her but doesn’t touch her or comfort her. Skylar’s head stays buried in her hands. Kim rummages through her purse-endlessly and loudly. More silence.

Skylar eventually reaches her hand across the table and says, please hold my hand, mom.

Kim sighs, stretches out one hand, and keeps rummaging through her purse with the other.

Wowza!!! Talk about DYSFUNCTION... IMO, "Mommy" is a real piece of work. Cold, superficial... seems extremely passive aggressive and quite manipulative to say the least.

And this gem right here:

KIM: You’ll go to jail. It’s in the papers. It’s everywhere. The neighbors already called me. And I know she’s telling me that they’re digging up in the back yard. You’re going to be in the news. How do you think (lists family member names) will feel?

SKYLAR: Mom, please support me. I didn’t..

KIM: Skylar, I am supporting you. I’m just saying…

And OMG... not only does Skylar have to ASK Kim to hold her hand, she only offers up one and continues the purse rummaging with the other??? Wow... just wow. Talk about COLD.

MOO. JMO.

 

[Wishbone]

[gitana1, post: 15392616, member: 6459"]I don't think you're necessarily in the minority. We shall see what evidence there is. And whether these detectives who kept reassuring her and calling her sweetheart "coerced" her into confessing to squeezing her baby too hard and admitting the baby was moving and gurgling prior to that, on the second day of interrogation.

Agree that whether or not the jurors think her confession was coerced will be key.

The only people I have seen angrily dissecting other's point of view are those who believe there has been a witch hunt. Not those who believe she killed her infant.

I must have missed the angry dissections, or the angry anything on this thread. This is actually one of the least contentious, most respectful WS threads I've been on over the years, one that hasn't devolved into US v THEM, and WE'RE RIGHT, Y'ALL JUST PLAIN WRONG camps. Yay that.

[gitana1, post: 15392616, member: 6459"]I don't think you're necessarily in the minority. We shall see what evidence there is. And whether these detectives who kept reassuring her and calling her sweetheart "coerced" her into confessing to squeezing her baby too hard and admitting the baby was moving and gurgling prior to that, on the second day of interrogation.

Agree that whether or not the jurors think her confession was coerced will be key.

The only people I have seen angrily dissecting other's point of view are those who believe there has been a witch hunt. Not those who believe she killed her infant.

I must have missed the angry dissections, or the angry anything on this thread. This is actually one of the least contentious, most respectful WS threads I've been on over the years, one that hasn't devolved into US v THEM, and WE'RE RIGHT, Y'ALL JUST PLAIN WRONG camps. Yay that.

[gitana1, post: 15392616, member: 6459"]I don't think you're necessarily in the minority. We shall see what evidence there is. And whether these detectives who kept reassuring her and calling her sweetheart "coerced" her into confessing to squeezing her baby too hard and admitting the baby was moving and gurgling prior to that, on the second day of interrogation.

Agree that whether or not the jurors think her confession was coerced will be key.

The only people I have seen angrily dissecting other's point of view are those who believe there has been a witch hunt. Not those who believe she killed her infant.

I must have missed the angry dissections, or the angry anything on this thread. This is actually one of the least contentious, most respectful WS threads I've been on over the years, one that hasn't devolved into US v THEM, and WE'RE RIGHT, Y'ALL JUST PLAIN WRONG camps. Yay that.

When I made a post, I added that I would most likely be hearing from the "peanut gallery". By that phase I meant "a group of people who criticize someone, often by focusing on insignificant details." Well, long story made short, someone took offense and told me "witch hunter" believers like me were more likely to behave that way. I am assuming that poster took the meaning of peanut gallery at its worst. So, I guess my humor is not funny around here and I meant no offense to anyone. But I still believe this case is a witch hunt.

 

[gitana1]

About 14:54 Skylar says It's my own baby, I would never try to hurt it.
Dad says Unfortunately honey it's happened before and Skylar says I Know.

Maybe he means with other cases?

 

[gitana1]

Family dynamics….the 1st interview.
-------------------------------------------

DAD: You should have told us.

SKYLAR: I thought you’d be mad at me.

KIM (MOTHER): and we’re not now?

KIM: Kids get pregnant every day. Pregnancy is not the end of the world.

SKYLAR: I’m so sorry

DAD: What did they tell you?

SKYLAR: I think they want to know if I killed it myself.

KIM: Yah. You’ll go to jail.

SKYLAR: I didn’t though. I know.

SKYLAR: I promised them I didn’t do anything.

DAD: You know. But they don’t know.

KIM: You know, I had the perfect life..

DAD: Who is the father?

KIM: You lied to me about him (Tre). You lied to me about so much. And now you expect me (to go through this?).

SKYLAR: I didn’t lie…

DAD: You did lie…

SKYLAR: Not about…I didn’t hurt her.

DAD: Here’s the thing. What’s done is done. It would have been so much better if you’d told us. They’re over there digging up something we had no idea was there. Your mother didn’t even know you were pregnant.

DAD: Can you imagine the horror of what we just went through, not knowing what was going on?

SKYLAR: Yes. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

DAD: I know you’re sorry, honey, but lying is….

SKYLAR: I was completely honest with them.

DAD: But you lied to US.

KIM: I could have helped you.

SKYLAR: I know but you would have been so mad at me

DAD: The thing is, we can’t fix this. There isn’t anything we can…

KIM: You’ll go to jail. It’s in the papers. It’s everywhere. The neighbors already called me. And I know she’s telling me that they’re digging up in the back yard. You’re going to be in the news. How do you think (lists family member names) will feel?

SKYLAR: Mom, please support me. I didn’t..

KIM: Skylar, I am supporting you. I’m just saying…

DAD: (father wrestles with why didn’t you tell us) I know you’re sorry. I know you didn’t mean it. But you have to understand this is the worst possible scenario you could possibly have put us in

SKYLAR: I know. I’m sorry. I’ll do anything to fix it.

DAD: You can’t.

SKYLAR: I know

DAD: Do you swear you never looked up anything on the internet about that kind of thing?

SKYLAR: No. I told them everything.

SKYLAR: They’re going to take me to prison.

KIM: Yes, you gave to be prepared for that.

DAD: No. stop. Let’s not go there yet.

SKYLAR: Mommy, I love you.

KIM: Skylar, I love you. (flatly, almost mocking Skylar, imo).

SKYLAR: Can you ever forgive me?

DAD: I think we can forgive you, but you will have to never lie to us again

SKYLAR: I would never have to….

KIM: Skylar, you are not going not going home with us.

DAD: Honey, don’t start that….

KIM: Skylar, I’m telling you, it makes me sick, but you know that bag of popcorn you had, you’ll never finish …

DAD: Honey, please stop

SKYLAR: Moooom

SKYLAR: Do you know how that makes me feel?

KIM: Do you have any idea how WE feel?


SKYLAR: I never would (?) , never hurt a baby (?) by myself…

KIM: I would have helped you. I have told you so many times I’m always going to be here for you if you just tell me. I’ve always told you I love you. How do you think I feel losing MY baby?

SKYLAR: I’m sorry mommy

KIM: I’m losing MY child. And I’ve done everything right.

SKYLAR: You have! You…

DAD: Please stop, you guys. Both. We need to stop this right now. We don’t know what is going to happen yet.

KIM: (Sniffling). it’s really hard for me right now. I’ve lost my (?), I’m stressed about Jackson (sniffs).

Silence. Husband is sitting next to her but doesn’t touch her or comfort her. Skylar’s head stays buried in her hands. Kim rummages through her purse-endlessly and loudly. More silence.

Skylar eventually reaches her hand across the table and says, please hold my hand, mom.

Kim sighs, stretches out one hand, and keeps rummaging through her purse with the other.

I think those are horrible parents. Their feelings and what people would think were the priority. And the mother wanted her child to hurt.

 

[Peppery]

That is why I am waiting to see if the prosecution has those texts messages from 2017 where she tells her mother how happy she is and what she texted her boyfriend and what else was found on all of their electronics.


Jmo

I really want to see the moms response. I’m assuming she’s a 40-something woman, with two (assumed) biological children. There is just no way she saw that bathroom pic of BSR the day of delivery and didn’t know she was pregnant. The shape of her body just does not happen at any other time other than within days of delivery. It’s a classic, postpartum stomach that a woman who’s been through two pregnancies would instantly recognize. Imo

 

[gitana1]

Wowza!!! Talk about DYSFUNCTION... IMO, "Mommy" is a real piece of work. Cold, superficial... seems extremely passive aggressive and quite manipulative to say the least.

And this gem right here:

KIM: You’ll go to jail. It’s in the papers. It’s everywhere. The neighbors already called me. And I know she’s telling me that they’re digging up in the back yard. You’re going to be in the news. How do you think (lists family member names) will feel?

SKYLAR: Mom, please support me. I didn’t..

KIM: Skylar, I am supporting you. I’m just saying…

And OMG... not only does Skylar have to ASK Kim to hold her hand, she only offers up one and continues the purse rummaging with the other??? Wow... just wow. Talk about COLD.

MOO. JMO.

This is pretty much precisely why young women conceal their pregnancies and kill their newborns. Terrified of mommy's wrath.

 

[gitana1]

I really want to see the moms response. I’m assuming she’s a 40-something woman, with two (assumed) biological children. There is just no way she saw that bathroom pic of BSR the day of delivery and didn’t know she was pregnant. The shape of her body just does not happen at any other time other than within days of delivery. It’s a classic, postpartum stomach that a woman who’s been through two pregnancies would instantly recognize. Imo

Yeah that was bizarre. And she also clearly knew her daughter had gained a ton of weight prior to showing her that deflated post-partum stomach. How did she think her kid lost all that weight overnight?

The mother at least was in incredible denial.

 

[stmarysmead]

My observation of three young women I have known...all suffering with eating disorders is the following:

The manipulation...the lying...are massive...both avenues to secretly assert their own “control” while outwardly still “pleasing” those they feel oppressively controlled by.

But also there are moments of anger, almost rage, at circumstances that are totally out of their control. The birth of an unwanted child, the
culmination of an unwanted pregnancy would fit this category.
If she has successfully fooled her parents, including her controlling Mom...how frustrating to now have to deal with an actual baby and a painful, messy birth.

The fact that the baby was discarded, unwrapped, in a dirt hole...does not speak of tenderness to me.

I wonder if there is not some satisfaction mingling with her anxiety for herself...that she has ruined her Mother’s “perfect” life. Yes, she CONTROLLED that situation.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I think mom knew she was pregnant and that is why she is not saying much.

JMO

Or it's just starting to be real to Mom, and all the implications are landing and weighing on her like the proverbial ton of bricks.

 

[proctorelites]

I feel sorry for her Dad. What I hear is a man trying to make sense of absolute craziness. A seasearch warrant was served on his home, ppl are digging in his back yard, the police request he contact his 18 yr old daughter so she can be interrogated. His wife is very self involved, he is trying to understand and NO father wants to assume his daughter murdered and buried a baby in the backyard. Damn right he wants to blv it's the doctors fault. I would and I'd pray it was the case. Its heartbreaking all around.

 

[proctorelites]

Here is what got me:
That cute little bag of popcorn you were eating, you'll never get to finish that

Is that what she said? It would be comical if it wasn't so heartbreaking. I have a liat of her comments and Theyre more appalling to me than the daughter's comments. I've listened to it more than once bc I hear my own family dynamics in their family...it caught my attention right away.

 

[squareandrabbet]

This is pretty much precisely why young women conceal their pregnancies and kill their newborns. Terrified of mommy's wrath.

Don't forget the dad's doleful "I just hope you're not going to jail... you'll never get to finish that bag of potato chips" (!?). I'm not inclined to give her father a pass either. That strikes me as standard insecure behavior designed to keep Skylar off balance; closer, in fact, to the policeman doing the interrogation! #1, what is Skylar supposed to do about going to jail at this point in time? #2, what is the point of rubbing it in to her that she's losing an unaccustomed treat??

 

[Hope4More]

I recall Kim making this all about her own grief -- she lost her dad that year, and stressed about her son Jackson for some reason.

(Also in response to other posts about Skylar's mother).

Someone else here a few days ago nailed who Kim is, imo: a classic and controlling narcissist. What that is goes way beyond demanding that her daughter be perfect, as the defense describes their relationship.

If Kim is in a fact a narcissist, her "love" of Skylar is entirely conditional, and she's made Skylar aware of that her entire life. Translations of some of what she told Skylar in the interview room:

1. (I would have been there for you if you had just asked, I've told you I'd always be there for you if you told me)= What you don't tell me about you I can't control, and you will pay for taking that control away from me.

2. (I've lost MY baby)= I am the victim here, not you. If anyone is going to sorry about the loss of a baby, it will be for me, not you.

3. (I'm stressed about your brother)= You need to feel guilty about causing your brother pain too.

Skylar would have been programmed to never trust her own feelings, to constantly feel like she was failing, to constantly seek her mother's approval -which her mother would use as a way to control & punish her, and perhaps relevant here, to have a clinically diminished understanding of boundaries- where she "ended," as it were.