OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Fight4justice]

Yah. When LE took out a sworn affidavit for a search warrant for Fred's place in May 2017, it makes sense they could have had probable cause to obtain a wiretap warrant. So while dozens of swat officers were distracting the family others were wiring up the place. Like the kitchen and living areas.

Yeah, I was thinking that or maybe someone on the inside (brother, sister)that knows what happened, knows who is the mastermind, who is fueling the mastermind. They got scared. Started thinking what if they get away with it? Will we be murdered next for our inheritance? So they planted a tape recorder. My opinion only!

 

[Cool Cats]

Yeah, I was thinking that or maybe someone on the inside (brother, sister)that knows what happened, knows who is the mastermind, who is fueling the mastermind. They got scared. Started thinking what if they get away with it? Will we be murdered next for our inheritance? So they planted a tape recorder. My opinion only!

I think if the 4 did this they kept it between them. Yes after the fact a family member could have been suspicious about the 4s' behavior or what-not, but what could they do really?

Your between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Her is something about Chris Watts that is a lot like Jake Wagner it talks about the smiling that both of them displays, JMO

This is a classic display of what is known as “Duping Delight”, wherein a person feels a true joy-happiness in their belief that they are fooling you. Of course, the action/lie in which they’re taking pleasure may very well not be something with which you would associate joy — it may be evil and malicious. Moreover, they may not be truly duping you — but they believe they are. Don’t let these factors throw you off track.

 

[Betty P]

Monday, December 2nd:
*Motions Hearing (@ 1pm ET) - OH - Pike County 8 people dead: Christopher Rhoden, Sr. (40), his ex-wife, Dana Manley Rhoden (37), their three children, Clarence "Frankie" Rhoden (20), Christopher Jr. Rhoden (16), Hanna May Rhoden (19); Frankie's fiancée, Hannah Hazel Gilley (20), Christopher Rhoden Sr.'s brother, Kenneth Rhoden (44), & a cousin, Gary Rhoden (38). Hanna Rhoden's baby girl (5 days old), another baby (6 mos.) and a young child (3) were unharmed. (April 21-22, 2016, Pebbles) – Only for *Rita Jo Newcomb (65) (Maternal grandmother) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18), charged & arraigned (11/15/18) with 3 counts forgery (5th degree), 1 count obstructing justice (5th degree) & 1 count perjury (3rd degree). Plead not guilty. $50K Surety bond.
Trial was scheduled for 11/18/19-continued. (should last about 4 days)
Court information from 10/22/19 to 11/15/19 reference post #132 here:
OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52
11/18/19 Update: Trial has been continued. Jurors who were summoned were released. Motion hearing on 12/2 @ 1pm.
*George Washington Wagner III (47) – Fact Specific Motions hearing on 12/9.
*Angela Jo Wagner (48) – Pretrial motions hearing on 12/11.
*Edward Jacob "Jake" Wagner (26) - Fact Specific Motions hearing on 12/11.
*George Washington Wagner IV (28) - Next pretrial & scheduling conference hearing on 1/21/20.
*Fredericka Carol Wagner (76) – 6/26/19 Charges dismissed without prejudice.

Bumping this up as info. for everyone. As always, much thanks to Niner!

 

[Dudly]

"A special prosecutor for the state, Angela Canepa, urged Deering to deny the request, citing conversations Wagner apparently had with what Canepa called a "confidential, reliable source."

"If one or more of them were arrested and one of them remained at-large, then that person should take revenge on anybody who went against them," Canepa said. "And they specifically also named special agent-in-charge (inaudible), Sheriff Reader and Mike DeWine and/or help the other individuals escape. ... I would say that specifically, George Wagner is probably the most vocal in making those threats."

Prosecutor: Pike County massacre suspect plotted revenge on anybody


Apple watches are so discreet to record with??? JMO

Even your smart TV can be used to spy on you... Then there are the devices waiting for a command from you that can be used to listen in...

 

[Puzzles8]

Guardian of the assets? That’s not the same as custody or guardian of the person is it? Makes no sense unless they thought the kids would inherit something. Are these documents posted somewhere here?

IANAL

Fred and Bob might have protected their assets by setting up some family trusts. If the assets to be inherited are in trusts, the trust document only establishes who the trustee is (custodian of the trust assets). The legal guardian of a child would not necessarily also be trustee of the assets.

But again, I am not a lawyer.

JMO, MOO

 

[Ann99]

Coming up starting week, the Fact Specific Motions Hearings should be very interesting, revealing.
We may learn new facts, evidence. I hope.

 

[Puzzles8]

I always thought the same, if someone was present in the home when these discussions were taking place then they would know who the informant was therefore I always felt the discussion was captured via other sources.

Just a thought, but we still don't know who John Doe is.

 

[Cool Cats]

IANAL

It looks like Fred and Bob have protected their assets by setting up some family trusts. If the assets to be inherited are in trusts, the trust document only establishes who the trustee is (custodian of the trust assets). The legal guardian of a child would not necessarily also be trustee of the assets.

But again, I am not a lawyer.

Yes I'm sure there are trusts where money is doled out over time and you can't spend it all at once. A very common practice for millionaires. She is worth 4 million according to one MSM article out there.

But I think it's all up to Robin. If Robin wants to keep the rentals and the animal business and Crystal Springs and go on running them like she already does, I doubt Fred would tell her: " No you have to sell and liquidate everything. "

I think Fred will leave the entire farm, rentals and Crystal Springs to Robin. I think after the arrests she took Billy and his sons out of her will and set up a Living Will for Robin to step in and continue to run the farm like she already does.

There probably are some trusts for the grand/great grandkids, but I doubt the farm would be sold off as long as Robin wants to run it. She has lived and worked there her whole life, I think in the end it will be Robin deciding what ultimately happens to Flying W Farms.

Only Opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

Coming up starting week, the Fact Specific Motions Hearings should be very interesting, revealing.
We may learn new facts, evidence. I hope.

What's a Fact Specific Motion?
All I can find are Substantive Motions. Maybe they are the same thing.

 

[sunshineray]

Yeah, I was thinking that or maybe someone on the inside (brother, sister)that knows what happened, knows who is the mastermind, who is fueling the mastermind. They got scared. Started thinking what if they get away with it? Will we be murdered next for our inheritance? So they planted a tape recorder. My opinion only!

I think they wired someone and I believe she was frightened beyond reason. AJMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I think they wired someone and I believe she was frightened beyond reason. AJMO

Hey Thanks!

I never thought of someone being wired, only bugs being planted. Interesting..

 

[Ann99]

What's a Fact Specific Motion?
All I can find are Substantive Motions. Maybe they are the same thing.

I was wondering the same thing and tried to find a definition, but didn’t see that exact wording anywhere.
The word fact made me hopeful that the hearing would be more substantive, so maybe substantive motions..idk

Definition of Fact as it applies to Law is very encouraging.

fact

Fact
Incident, act, event, or circumstance. A fact is something that has already been done or an action in process. It is an event that has definitely and actually taken place, and is distinguishable from a suspicion, innuendo, or supposition.
A fact is a truth as opposed to fiction or mistake.

fact
n. an actual thing or happening, which must be proved at trial by presentation of evidence and which is evaluated by the finder of fact
(a jury in a jury trial, or by the judge if he/she sits without a jury).
fact
an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law.

Maybe someone will know more and explain.

 

[Ann99]

Just a thought, but we still don't know who John Doe is.

Maybe this is something that will be an issue in the Fact Specific Hearings. I would expect defense attorneys will try to get this information. AC will resist until forced.

 

[Ann99]

D.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was wondering the same thing and tried to find a definition, but didn’t see that exact wording anywhere.
The word fact made me hopeful that the hearing would be more substantive, so maybe substantive motions..idk

Definition of Fact as it applies to Law is very encouraging.

fact

Fact
Incident, act, event, or circumstance. A fact is something that has already been done or an action in process. It is an event that has definitely and actually taken place, and is distinguishable from a suspicion, innuendo, or supposition.
A fact is a truth as opposed to fiction or mistake.

fact
n. an actual thing or happening, which must be proved at trial by presentation of evidence and which is evaluated by the finder of fact
(a jury in a jury trial, or by the judge if he/she sits without a jury).
fact
an event, occurrence or state of affairs known to have happened; to be distinguished from opinion or law.

Maybe someone will know more and explain.

So in Billy's Journal entry it says:

The Court took under advisement the remainder of the "non-substantive" motions or motions not based upon the specific facts of this action and will issue written decisions concerning the same.

According to this Journal entry substantive motions are motions based in fact. So I think I'm correct that fact based and substantive motions are the same.

Examples of non-substantive motions would be all those common standard identical motions the Wagners have that are typical in DP and other cases:

MOTION TO PROHIBIT THE STATE'S USE OF PEREMPTORY CHALLENGES TO EXCLUDE PERSONS WITH CONCERNS ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY

MOTION TO PROHIBIT REFERENCES TO THE JURY THAT A DEATH PENALTY VERDICT IS ONLY A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TRIAL JUDGE

MOTION FOR A COURTROOM DECORUM ORDER

MOTION FOR ACCUSED TO APPEAR IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING AND WITHOUT RESTRAINTS

MOTION TO EXCLUDE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DECEASED FILED

Junk and Canepa did argue some of the non-substantive motions. Like they won't back down on showing photographs of the victims.

Remember when Rita's attorney Gerlach argued a motion to throw out Rita's Grand Jury testimony and one reason was because "the mysterious ghost man" wasn't suppose to be there?

I'm pretty sure (but just opinion) that was considered a substantive motion but was successfully argued against by the prosecution.

Anyway, fact/substantive motion hearings will be way more interesting in my opinion. And thanks for bringing it up...

 

[Ann99]

So in Billy's Journal entry it says:

The Court took under advisement the remainder of the "non-substantive" motions or motions not based upon the specific facts of this action and will issue written decisions concerning the same.

According to this Journal entry substantive motions are motions based in fact. So I think I'm correct that fact based and substantive motions are the same.

Examples of non-substantive motions would be all those common standard identical motions the Wagners have that are typical in DP and other cases:

MOTION TO PROHIBIT THE STATE'S USE OF PEREMPTORY CHALLENGES TO EXCLUDE PERSONS WITH CONCERNS ABOUT THE DEATH PENALTY

MOTION TO PROHIBIT REFERENCES TO THE JURY THAT A DEATH PENALTY VERDICT IS ONLY A RECOMMENDATION TO THE TRIAL JUDGE

MOTION FOR A COURTROOM DECORUM ORDER

MOTION FOR ACCUSED TO APPEAR IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING AND WITHOUT RESTRAINTS

MOTION TO EXCLUDE PHOTOGRAPHS OF THE DECEASED FILED

Junk and Canepa did argue some of the non-substantive motions. Like they won't back down on showing photographs of the victims.

Remember when Rita's attorney Gerlach argued a motion to throw out Rita's Grand Jury testimony and one reason was because "the mysterious ghost man" wasn't suppose to be there?

I'm pretty sure (but just opinion) that was considered a substantive motion but was successfully argued against by the prosecution.

Anyway, fact/substantive motion hearings will be way more interesting in my opinion. And thanks for bringing it up...

Thanks for solving that mystery.
I do hope they will be more interesting.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for solving that mystery.
I do hope they will be more interesting.

Ha! Not sure I solved it but I think when these hearings get into fact-based motions, what will be interesting is the facts presented will be based on what the Wagners' are actually charged with as opposed to those standard typical motions. Maybe if we're lucky we will get a little insight into defense and prosecution strategy. One can only hope.

My understanding is fact-based motions are based on the facts of the specific case such as the evidence, the witnesses ect..(I'm still trying to understand it)

 

[eanspratt]

Yah. When LE took out a sworn affidavit for a search warrant for Fred's place in May 2017, it makes sense they could have had probable cause to obtain a wiretap warrant. So while dozens of swat officers were distracting the family others were wiring up the place. Like the kitchen and living areas.

Any device with a microphone can be made “hot” by LE with little effort. That is anyone’s cell phone, computer, answering machine, tv, etc. All that is needed is a search warrant and that would be a cinch with the reasonable cause that LE would have had that late in the game.

 

[Cool Cats]

Any device with a microphone can be made “hot” by LE with little effort. That is anyone’s cell phone, computer, answering machine, tv, etc. All that is needed is a search warrant and that would be a cinch with the reasonable cause that LE would have had that late in the game.

Right. I keep thinking how it used to be done, like when they would sneak into mob hang outs to hide bugs etc...Nowadays you can feel like "Alexa" is stalking you!

Maybe they could listen in by going through cable, phone and internet companies without always having to be in your house, just have the search warrant.