OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM
I have read several times that two different size bullets means two shooters. Why can it not mean someone was carrying two guns?
Also, there is nothing from a reliable source that says a .22 was used.

Two different size bullets can mean one person carrying two different guns. However, imoo, that's unlikely in a close-quarters situation. Having to keep up with an extra weapon while in a small space, potentially while fending off would be victims, there are many risks. (It being taken off of your person, used against you, dropped and evidence left behind...) Imoo, in this scase it's more likely that two different bullets means multiple shooters.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

BBM
I have read several times that two different size bullets means two shooters. Why can it not mean someone was carrying two guns?
Also, there is nothing from a reliable source that says a .22 was used.

Two different size bullets can mean one person carrying two different guns. However, imoo, that's unlikely in a close-quarters situation. Having to keep up with an extra weapon while in a small space, potentially while fending off would be victims, there are many risks. (It being taken off of your person, used against you, dropped and evidence left behind...) Imoo, in this case it's more likely that two different bullets means multiple shooters.

 

[Berrybell]

Two different size bullets can mean one person carrying two different guns. However, imoo, that's unlikely in a close-quarters situation. Having to keep up with an extra weapon while in a small space, potentially while fending off would be victims, there are many risks. (It being taken off of your person, used against you, dropped and evidence left behind...) Imoo, in this case it's more likely that two different bullets means multiple shooters.

IMO the only reason to carry more than one gun is to make sure you have a backup incase of the gun jamming, however, you would most likely carry one gun with multiple magazines.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

BBM
I have read several times that two different size bullets means two shooters. Why can it not mean someone was carrying two guns?
Also, there is nothing from a reliable source that says a .22 was used.

Do you think if a person was shot 4 times in the head and once under the chin with anything bigger than a 25 automatic that the funeral home could have an open casket, remember everyone expect Big Chris was shot close up, execution style! JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

A

Yes it is, but we do not know a 1911.22 was used to kill anyone... Is JW's set up for a silencer?

Another thing to keep in mind, the suppresser works more effectively on a smaller caliber gun than a big caliber

 

[Cool Cats]

Two different size bullets can mean one person carrying two different guns. However, imoo, that's unlikely in a close-quarters situation. Having to keep up with an extra weapon while in a small space, potentially while fending off would be victims, there are many risks. (It being taken off of your person, used against you, dropped and evidence left behind...) Imoo, in this case it's more likely that two different bullets means multiple shooters.

Yes. And now we know it's multiple shooters.

Before the arrests we didn't know how many shooters but now we know we are dealing with 3 or 4 shooters so I don't think it was necessary for 3 or 4 shooters to go in with guns in both hands or to go in and shoot - then stop -
then reholster- then unholster a 2nd gun. That's too slow, DeWine said they did this quickly.
I do think they each had an extra gun holstered away in case the gun of choice jammed up.

With Gary being shot with larger caliber bullets I have theories about this:

1.) One of the shooters was carrying a gun with larger caliber bullets but it was the other 2 or 3 who did all the shooting. The killer with the gun with the larger caliber bullets only shot Gary and no one else.

2.) The killer who shot Gary carried the gun with larger caliber bullets into the house, shot Gary, then decided for some reason not to use it again. So that killer holstered it and then unholstered a 2nd gun with smaller caliber bullets and helped shoot the others with that 2nd gun only.

...Just my take on it....

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes it is, but we do not know a 1911.22 was used to kill anyone... Is JW's set up for a silencer?

I don't know why the prosecution has actual photos of a 1911.22 gun but I can guess. Ballistics shows a 1911.22 was used in the murders and the prosecution wants to show the jury photos of what one looks like.

And if this type of gun was used in the murders you can bet sweet
aunt Jean that it was an automatic (per indictments) equipped with a maglite silencer (per evidence).

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

Just jumping in to bump Tricia's post from earlier this week.

Right I did it in a few seconds, no problem.

 

[StrangeOne]

Does anyone have the make and model of the trailers the Rhodens owned?

 

[Piffcat]

Well, you have certainly brought up some things to think about.

I can't readily find proffer being used at the State level. From what I found, "Forgery" is a white collar crime and "big stuff."

All of a sudden, after seeing the latest Discovery and noting the dates, I believe the Prosecution found some overwhelming evidence in the latest searches and used it as bargaining chips with RN. Apparently it was enough to shake her hard and heavy. JMO But what was it??

Or could it be that RN, along with the others, is part of a much, much bigger crime- the undercurrent of drugs - and faces hard time for Engaging in a Pattern of Corrupt Activity? The SECOND motive for the murders? Just my opinion, thinking out loud.

• If you've seen the public argument on Facebook between rj and sheriff over the shatter operation/26 lb post office seizure. Junk is furious with reader because reader publicly arrested the defendant after said defendant had signed a proffer offer with the da. It's a common legal term for pike county just like Ohio as a state has confusing grand jury rules. The term proffer definitely denotes cooperation on a local level- it's a junk term. Moo since I can't find convo ss

 

[Puzzles8]

Yes. And now we know it's multiple shooters.

Before the arrests we didn't know how many shooters but now we know we are dealing with 3 or 4 shooters so I don't think it was necessary for 3 or 4 shooters to go in with guns in both hands or to go in and shoot - then stop -
then reholster- then unholster a 2nd gun. That's too slow, DeWine said they did this quickly.
I do think they each had an extra gun holstered away in case the gun of choice jammed up.

With Gary being shot with larger caliber bullets I have theories about this:

1.) One of the shooters was carrying a gun with larger caliber bullets but it was the other 2 or 3 who did all the shooting. The killer with the gun with the larger caliber bullets only shot Gary and no one else.

2.) The killer who shot Gary carried the gun with larger caliber bullets into the house, shot Gary, then decided for some reason not to use it again. So that killer holstered it and then unholstered a 2nd gun with smaller caliber bullets and helped shoot the others with that 2nd gun only.

...Just my take on it....

What if the second gun was either Chris sr or Gary's? Maybe they tried to fight back in self defense and the W's were able to wrestle away the R's gun and killed Gary or CRsr with it?

If there were shells/casings found from the second gun, I'd tend to believe the gun belonged to the R's. The R's would not likely have a bullet catcher on a gun they kept for protection.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Puzzles8]

A

Another thing to keep in mind, the suppresser works more effectively on a smaller caliber gun than a big caliber

Can you please shed some light on guns/ammo/suppressors?

Is the caliber indicative of the type of gun? Hand gun, rifle or automatic/semi-automatic weapon?

 

[Cool Cats]

What if the second gun was either Chris sr or Gary's? Maybe they tried to fight back in self defense and the W's were able to wrestle away the R's gun and killed Gary or CRsr with it?

If there were shells/casings found from the second gun, I'd tend to believe the gun belonged to the R's. The R's would not likely have a bullet catcher on a gun they kept for protection.

Just thinking out loud.

Interesting.

You are correct, there would most likely not be a brass catcher on the gun. But, that also means there was most likely no silencer on the gun either, and they could not use it without a silencer.

Also they cannot test fire a found gun in the home, and there may not have even been 4 bullets in it. Just too many variables for me to believe they used any guns but their own.

Also, if Gary pulled a gun - the Wagners would have shot him before trying to take it from him. It just happened too fast. When someone pulls a gun the first thing anyone does is shoot them. No one stops to get the gun.

...2 Cents...

 

[Puzzles8]

• If you've seen the public argument on Facebook between rj and sheriff over the shatter operation/26 lb post office seizure. Junk is furious with reader because reader publicly arrested the defendant after said defendant had signed a proffer offer with the da. It's a common legal term for pike county just like Ohio as a state has confusing grand jury rules. The term proffer definitely denotes cooperation on a local level- it's a junk term. Moo since I can't find convo ss

Please link all of your stated facts.

 

[Loomis124]

I don't know why the prosecution has actual photos of a 1911.22 gun but I can guess. Ballistics shows a 1911.22 was used in the murders and the prosecution wants to show the jury photos of what one looks like.

And if this type of gun was used in the murders you can bet sweet
aunt Jean that it was an automatic (per indictments) equipped with a maglite silencer (per evidence).

...2 Cents...

CC, I thought that was an actual photo in evidence of a gun found in searches, but I'd have to go back and look. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

• If you've seen the public argument on Facebook between rj and sheriff over the shatter operation/26 lb post office seizure. Junk is furious with reader because reader publicly arrested the defendant after said defendant had signed a proffer offer with the da. It's a common legal term for pike county just like Ohio as a state has confusing grand jury rules. The term proffer definitely denotes cooperation on a local level- it's a junk term. Moo since I can't find convo ss

No, I've never seen nor heard about a Proffer with the shatter lab guys. Can you please provide a link? Boyer and Higgins were their last names. Opinion

 

[Loomis124]

Please link all of your stated facts.

I didn't bring this subject up, but I do remember it. I do not recall a FB conversation between RJ and Sheriff Reader about it.

THC Lab

https://amp.chillicothegazette.com/amp/86145380

https://amp.chillicothegazette.com/amp/89201948

Also, I do notice comments by Reader at the end of the first link above, but nothing about a proffer.

Boyer and Higgins arraigned in Pike County Court, released on OR Bond

 

[Loomis124]

To my knowledge, the shatter lab case got dropped after the Rhoden murders. Boyer is a member of a local prominent family who owns a funeral home. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

PROFFER:

Differences Between Proffer and Offer | Difference Between

Proffer letter - Wikipedia

 

[Cool Cats]

CC, I thought that was an actual photo in evidence of a gun found in searches, but I'd have to go back and look. JMO

You are right, I bet this is a photo of an actual gun they found!

The Discovery page says:

(.....Other items listed.....)

Bethel Hill Road Search (7/13/17):
____Photos from search (318)
____Inventory (3 pp)
Photos of 1911.22 (2)
Ballistics:
____Submission Form (2pp)
____Report of Findings (2pp)
Billy Wagner's cell tower records:
____March 2016 calendar (1p)
____April 2016 calendar (1p)