OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[OhioBlues]

Been trying to find it. I'm pretty sure BJM said she gave her clothes to investigators, I assume shoes also. They took DNA from Brentley's mom that day too....2 cents..need to find link.

I remember that as well (just in case the news articles have been changed).

 

[Cool Cats]

I remember that as well (just in case the news articles have been changed).

Great! I was sure I read that. I assume, since JM is considered a witness because he discovered a crime scene, that LE got his clothes and shoes that day also. No doubt
they checked the Manley's shoes against the bloody prints because BJM said they were treating her family like suspects. Hauling then out of bed in the middle of the night, demanding polygraphs, LM said she took 3, a bit excessive considering she passed all 3.

LE definately looked hard at the Manleys before looking that hard at the Wagners.
Wagners were not put under surveillance until a year later. Summer of 2017 and summer of 2018, for George anyway.

...2 Cents...

 

[Covert Operative]

The weight was mentioned not Gary. Nothing was said at the Bond Hearing about Gary at all including nothing was said about the type of firearm and bullets he was shot with. He was shot 3 times with larger caliber bullets according to the autopsy report.

So there is no misunderstanding here is what was said regarding a heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
1 Hour 10 minutes into the video.

Yes that is what I remember. There was no mention of what caliber shot GR. Thanks

 

[Covert Operative]

Been trying to find it. I'm pretty sure BJM said she gave her clothes to investigators, I assume shoes also. They took DNA from Brentley's mom that day too....2 cents..need to find link.

Investigators have possession of the clothes Bobby Jo Manley wore on April 22. They've swabbed her mouth for DNA and taken her fingerprints. They've interviewed her at least four times, she said. Investigators took DNA swabs from Leonard Manley as well and asked him for details related to his whereabouts and those of his family in the hours before the bodies were found.
Ohio scientists work with cops to solve Rhoden massacre | kgw.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Investigators have possession of the clothes Bobby Jo Manley wore on April 22. They've swabbed her mouth for DNA and taken her fingerprints. They've interviewed her at least four times, she said. Investigators took DNA swabs from Leonard Manley as well and asked him for details related to his whereabouts and those of his family in the hours before the bodies were found.
Ohio scientists work with cops to solve Rhoden massacre | kgw.com

Thanks! I couldn't find it. Appreciate it.

 

[Covert Operative]

Did AC or RS ever state that AW bought shoes to implicate JM?

It was never said in court at the bond hearing yet, however AC did refer to the shoes as "specific" shoes. That does make one wonder what she means by specific.

 

[Covert Operative]

A single shot to the eye can imply the murder victim has "seen too much".

IMO, I don't think KR was in the W4's original plan. I think he accidentally saw something that night. Maybe KR just drove down UHR that night and noticed a familiar vehicle parked in CRsr's driveway. KR might have thought nothing of it....at the time.

All JMO, MOO, etc.

You are correct, there could be several reasons for a single shot. I have thought of quite a few myself. It does seem to me he was probably in the original plan. Timing is everything they say.

 

[Covert Operative]

I am concerned that it's a rumor.

Why would AW buy 2 different size shoes to try and implicate one person (JM)? It doesn't make sense to me.

At least one shoe size, would not have been the same as JM. JM's shoes would have much more wear and tear than the bloody footprints at the crime scene.

If I was a Crime Scene Investigator, I would have asked for everyone's shoes that were on scene that day too. It would help rule out footprints as well.

They may not realize the FBI has a shoe database to identify shoes. Tennis shoes are the most used footwear in murders. They also may not have thought about the tread being compared or the size being compared.

 

[Covert Operative]

I remember that as well (just in case the news articles have been changed).

Bobby Jo Manley said she, her brother and his son as well as the two people who were with her that morning were taken to be questioned. They took her shirt and her pants and her shoes. They took her fingerprints and swabbed the inside of her mouth, presumably for her DNA, she said.
Ohio massacre: 'I was not leaving those babies in there' | firstcoastnews.com

 

[Dudly]

I am concerned that it's a rumor.

Why would AW buy 2 different size shoes to try and implicate one person (JM)? It doesn't make sense to me.

At least one shoe size, would not have been the same as JM. JM's shoes would have much more wear and tear than the bloody footprints at the crime scene.

If I was a Crime Scene Investigator, I would have asked for everyone's shoes that were on scene that day too. It would help rule out footprints as well.

I am sure they looked at the shoes of everyone that was in the homes that day. LM is the only one, that I recall, that said anything about LE looking at his shoes. It could be LM and JM wore the same type of shoes, also. Then buying that particular shoe would make more sense IF they were intending to try to get the Manleys accused of the crime. Hopefully some day we may know about all these things...

 

[OhioBlues]

Great! I was sure I read that. I assume, since JM is considered a witness because he discovered a crime scene, that LE got his clothes and shoes that day also. No doubt
they checked the Manley's shoes against the bloody prints because BJM said they were treating her family like suspects. Hauling then out of bed in the middle of the night, demanding polygraphs, LM said she took 3, a bit excessive considering she passed all 3.

LE definately looked hard at the Manleys before looking that hard at the Wagners.
Wagners were not put under surveillance until a year later. Summer of 2017 and summer of 2018, for George anyway.

...2 Cents...

Thanks.

If BCI truly didn't look into the Wagner's during the first couple of weeks then I do not understand why not.

There were photos of JW and GW with black hair posted by them on FB and their friend questioned why JW had black hair. GW also had black hair FTR.

Only one child was not at the crime scenes.

I would like to know if officers went to visit all 4 W's immediately after the crimes.
Did they see black hair?
Did it appear that any of the W4 had been in a physical altercation?

 

[OhioBlues]

It was never said in court at the bond hearing yet, however AC did refer to the shoes as "specific" shoes. That does make one wonder what she means by specific.

Thanks. I do wonder what she meant by 'specific'.

I guess that I will watch the hearing one more time to see if the context changes anything.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks.

If BCI truly didn't look into the Wagner's during the first couple of weeks then I do not understand why not.

There were photos of JW and GW with black hair posted by them on FB and their friend questioned why JW had black hair. GW also had black hair FTR.

Only one child was not at the crime scenes.

I would like to know if officers went to visit all 4 W's immediately after the crimes.
Did they see black hair?
Did it appear that any of the W4 had been in a physical altercation?

"Police questioning can be either formal (i.e. at a police station with a record of interview made of the proceedings) or informal."

"If an officer has cause to conduct a field interview, the proceedings are more informal than a traditional interview. Such as details immediately pertinent to the investigation or to allay the officer’s suspicions."

Police questioning and interviewing

What Is a Field Interview?

Over a 11 month time period Jake, Angela and Billy are interviewed formally only one time each and this is not much at all. Not like in May 2017 when the investigation turned toward them and they were formally interviewed many times.

Jake - May 13, 2016 - Video
Billy - September 9, 2016 - Audio
Angela - October 5, 2016 - Audio

BCI did tons of interviews and follow ups on tips but they were not necessarily all formal where they record and video everyone. There just is no way they could even conduct an investigation without talking to Jake about where his daughter is and making sure she is safe, plus he needed to be notified about what happened.

I believe BCI did informal and field interviews on all the family members and Jake, and then recorded some of them like CN (opinion) who will likely be a witness at trial.

In the Bond Hearing when Canepa asked Scheiderer if investigators were looking at the Wagners (durring a certain time period) he said no.

But to make sure this is accurate I will transcribe exactly what the question was and the context.

 

[Betty P]

Yes that is what I remember. There was no mention of what caliber shot GR. Thanks

IIRC There was mention of it in the autopsy report.

 

[Covert Operative]

IIRC There was mention of it in the autopsy report.

Yes it was in the autopsy report.

 

[Covert Operative]

<ModSnip>

I am not sure the items in the homes would be listed individually on discovery. I also believe all of discovery is not filed yet so it is possible it could be on there. When I compare the Omnibus Identification of Discovery that Junk filed June 2020 to the discovery that is in courtview there are some that appear to be missing from courtview. I think 3-2019 and 7-2019 discovery lists are not filed in courtview. They were turned over to Defense but not filed. Some newer discovery may also not be filed. The 7-2019 file had 2.00 TB on it.

 

[Betty P]

I am not sure the items in the homes would be listed individually on discovery. I also believe all of discovery is not filed yet so it is possible it could be on there. When I compare the Omnibus Identification of Discovery that Junk filed June 2020 to the discovery that is in courtview there are some that appear to be missing from courtview. I think 3-2019 and 7-2019 discovery lists are not filed in courtview. They were turned over to Defense but not filed. Some newer discovery may also not be filed. The 7-2019 file had 2.00 TB on it.

Good point. There is probably more evidence that we won't know about until the trial.

Another alternative is that the defense chooses not to list any evidence related to the grow ops because they weren't part of the motive for the murders and would only be a distraction from the Wagners and their motives.

 

[Ann99]

Covert Operative and Betty,
I see what you both are saying and I agree.
Just like all the vehicles that were hauled away. No further mention of contents, details, etc. Iirc.
However, since the safe was mentioned initially, does anyone know if LE / BCI would be able or expected to open the safe?

 

[Covert Operative]

Covert Operative and Betty,
I see what you both are saying and I agree.
Just like all the vehicles that were hauled away. No further mention of contents, details, etc. Iirc.
However, since the safe was mentioned initially, does anyone know if LE / BCI would be able or expected to open the safe?

I would imagine they called in a company that deals with safes to open it unless BCI has someone that also can do that.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

We haven’t even seen a list of guns retrieved from the Rhodens homes yet, all you Sluthers know that the Rhodens was owner of guns, so why haven’t LE said anything about them????