OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Johnny B Bad]

I agree their motive was to kill. If they are going that far and they think there is money in the safe might as well do both if you can. There could be secondary motives for the murders, it could be a combination of things with custody being the main reason. They may also have felt that they were owed money from him for some reason in their minds.

The other reason I think that Big Chris and the rest where killed was that Big Chris Kicked Billy’s A$$, JMO remember the song Kenny Rogers singed about the Coward of The County not saying Big Chris was a coward but Billy was a Bully JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

Did AW buy 3 pairs of shoes from Wal-Mart or 2 pairs? Just in case anyone knows! TIA

She bought two. The shoeprints that were left at DR and CRsr scenes were both left shoe prints. 10.5 and 11.

 

[Covert Operative]

Did AW buy 3 pairs of shoes from Wal-Mart or 2 pairs? Just in case anyone knows! TIA

She bought two pair. The shoeprints that were left at DR and CRsr scenes were both left shoe prints. 10.5 and 11 of the same size and type she bought.

 

[Betty P]

I am not sure exactly what we are allowed to say on here being new. It could be that there was money strewn on him from someone going through his pants pockets looking for something. I do not think some things fit in a murder suicide scenario plan but I think some things do. Each scenario I think about things do not fit.

That's possible, if they were looking for keys or some other item. The one shot could have also been because they had no particular animus against KR, but needed to kill him to prevent him being a witness or in seeking vengeance.

When it comes to trying to guess the plans of the Wagners, JMO, they don't often follow logic or common sense. They thoroughly executed a complicated plan, but they made mistakes and errors in judgment. We just don't know all those mistakes at this point. LE's focus elsewhere gave them time to get rid of evidence.

 

[Antimony]

She bought two pair. The shoeprints that were left at DR and CRsr scenes were both left shoe prints. 10.5 and 11 of the same size and type she bought.

This would imply that Billy and AW were not at the murder scenes. Imply, not prove.

 

[Covert Operative]

That's possible, if they were looking for keys or some other item. The one shot could have also been because they had no particular animus against KR, but needed to kill him to prevent him being a witness or in seeking vengeance.

When it comes to trying to guess the plans of the Wagners, JMO, they don't often follow logic or common sense. They thoroughly executed a complicated plan, but they made mistakes and errors in judgment. We just don't know all those mistakes at this point. LE's focus elsewhere gave them time to get rid of evidence.

Yes there could be multiple reasons he was killed and only shot once. Maybe they needed his phone or he had keys to CRsr home or it could be any number of reasons. It just seems out of character for them to only shoot him once and all others multiple times. Seems like there may have been a specific reason for it which brings up a possible murder suicide plan that did not go as planned. They may need to circle back to him to execute a plan like that and some things went awry that prevented it.

 

[Antimony]

Someone on here commented that CRsr's safe was big. Extreme size, I think was said.
Just how big/heavy was the safe? There is a practical limit on how big and heavy of an object that could be placed in a mobile home without extreme modifications.

 

[Covert Operative]

This would imply that Billy and AW were not at the murder scenes. Imply, not prove.

Or imply they did not go in. It also could imply he used some shoes he already had if he did go in or his shoes did not leave any shoeprints.

 

[Betty P]

I have to take off to run some errands, but I probably need to update some of my files to include the info from Scheiderer's testimony. Ballistics indicate 3 weapons, though not sure of 3 shooters. Shell casings of different calibers found at Chris Sr.'s home, but there were no casings of the larger weapon found at Frankie or Dana's homes, IIRC.

 

[Covert Operative]

I have to take off to run some errands, but I probably need to update some of my files to include the info from Scheiderer's testimony. Ballistics indicate 3 weapons, though not sure of 3 shooters. Shell casings of different calibers found at Chris Sr.'s home, but there were no casings of the larger weapon found at Frankie or Dana's homes, IIRC.

Yes, 30 Caliber and 40 Caliber found at CRsr. Only 22 caliber were found at DR and FR. He did say that DR,HR,CRjr, FR,HG were killed with 22. He did not say what caliber CRsr or GR were killed with. KR was not mentioned at all.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, 30 Caliber and 40 Caliber found at CRsr. Only 22 caliber were found at DR and FR. He did say that DR,HR,CRjr, FR,HG were killed with 22. He did not say what caliber CRsr or GR were killed with. KR was not mentioned at all.

In the bond hearing it was mentioned one of the bullets was a heavier type and Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets. Which gun has the larger caliber bullets is the question.

 

[Covert Operative]

In the bond hearing it was mentioned one of the bullets was a heavier type and Gary was shot with larger caliber bullets. Which gun has the larger caliber bullets is the question.

I know it was said in articles from the autopsy notes that GR was shot with a larger caliber but I do not recall that being said in bond hearing. It could have been and I missed it.

 

[Puzzles8]

Yes there could be multiple reasons he was killed and only shot once. Maybe they needed his phone or he had keys to CRsr home or it could be any number of reasons. It just seems out of character for them to only shoot him once and all others multiple times. Seems like there may have been a specific reason for it which brings up a possible murder suicide plan that did not go as planned. They may need to circle back to him to execute a plan like that and some things went awry that prevented it.

A single shot to the eye can imply the murder victim has "seen too much".

IMO, I don't think KR was in the W4's original plan. I think he accidentally saw something that night. Maybe KR just drove down UHR that night and noticed a familiar vehicle parked in CRsr's driveway. KR might have thought nothing of it....at the time.

All JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Cool Cats]

I know it was said in articles from the autopsy notes that GR was shot with a larger caliber but I do not recall that being said in bond hearing. It could have been and I missed it.

The weight was mentioned not Gary. Nothing was said at the Bond Hearing about Gary at all including nothing was said about the type of firearm and bullets he was shot with. He was shot 3 times with larger caliber bullets according to the autopsy report.

So there is no misunderstanding here is what was said regarding a heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
So at this location (Chris SR's) we have evidence that a 30 caliber rifle was used at this location. We also have evidence that a Glock 40 caliber firearm was fired and we recovered bullet fragments of the 30 caliber as well as the 40 caliber and a casing from the 40 caliber cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok and I believe you already testified that - that 40 caliber was determined to be fired from a Glock.

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
Ok and then you said a 30 caliber - was there an opinion about the projectile from the 30 caliber?

Scheiderer:
Yah it was a metallic cartridge and it was believed to be a military style round like a 7.62 cartridge.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
There was other 30 calibers that were eliminated as potential contributors.

Canepa:
Ok and specifically because that's a little bit heavier weight.

Scheiderer:
Yes it was a - yes it was a heavier - yes.

Canepa:
And can you tell us where were those - where was the ballistic evidence found at scene one?

Scheiderer:
In the living room which is the primary room of the residence and then also on the front porch leading up to the residence.

Canepa:
Ok.

Scheiderer:
And - and underneath the residence there was also a bullet retrieved from the dirt underneath the residence.

George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details
1 Hour 10 minutes into the video.

 

[OhioBlues]

Did AC or RS ever state that AW bought shoes to implicate JM?

 

[Dudly]

This would imply that Billy and AW were not at the murder scenes. Imply, not prove.

Or it could mean AW and Billy didn’t wear those size shoes...

 

[Dudly]

Did AC or RS ever state that AW bought shoes to implicate JM?

I don’t know if that was said in court. LM said in an interview that LE wanted to see his shoes. Somewhere I read the Walmart shoes were the same kind as JM wore but with no link it is rumor.
My opinions only...

 

[OhioBlues]

I don’t know if that was said in court. LM said in an interview that LE wanted to see his shoes. Somewhere I read the Walmart shoes were the same kind as JM wore but with no link it is rumor.
My opinions only...

I am concerned that it's a rumor.

Why would AW buy 2 different size shoes to try and implicate one person (JM)? It doesn't make sense to me.

At least one shoe size, would not have been the same as JM. JM's shoes would have much more wear and tear than the bloody footprints at the crime scene.

If I was a Crime Scene Investigator, I would have asked for everyone's shoes that were on scene that day too. It would help rule out footprints as well.

 

[Cool Cats]

Did AC or RS ever state that AW bought shoes to implicate JM?

Absolutely not. A rumor to be squashed.

The shoes have zero to do with JM and everything to do with the Wagners according to Angela herself.

Scheiderer said they separated the Wagners at the Montana boarder and asked them about the shoes. Angela said she bought them for George and Jake.

They asked her where the shoes were and she said she showed them to George and Jake but they didn't like the shoes so she threw them out. They were never recovered.

George and Jake said they didn't know anything about the shoes.

To frame someone you'd have to get one of their shoes and leave a print with that specific shoe. The only shoe prints at the scenes are the same make and model and size of the shoes Angela bought 2 weeks prior.

The tread on the shoes shows that the shoes are new, not worn. The prints are from the left shoes, the size 11 and the size 10.5

 

[Cool Cats]

I am concerned that it's a rumor.

Why would AW buy 2 different size shoes to try and implicate one person (JM)? It doesn't make sense to me.

At least one shoe size, would not have been the same as JM. JM's shoes would have much more wear and tear than the bloody footprints at the crime scene.

If I was a Crime Scene Investigator, I would have asked for everyone's shoes that were on scene that day too. It would help rule out footprints as well.

Been trying to find it. I'm pretty sure BJM said she gave her clothes to investigators, I assume shoes also. They took DNA from Brentley's mom that day too....2 cents..need to find link.