OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #59

[Ann99]

G4 is the only one of the 4 that answered the civil suit. Does that mean he is the only one that thinks he may be found not guilty? Not answering could be construed as admitting guilt although not technically. A default judgment will be filed against the other 3 and granted. FW has at least one trust made in
Sept 1993 so most of her assets are probably protected and would be hard to get. Robin is the trustee of that irrevocable trust amended in Feb, 2019.

I dont know how this will work out according to the courts and local jurisdiction- here is the most detailed article I could find
Relative Of 8 Slaying Victims In Ohio Files Wrongful Death Lawsuit

It could be possible that this civil law suit is a "placeholder" and can not be successfully addressed until the criminal cases are settled.
I really don't know, just a best guess.
The attorneys who filed this civil suit sure seem to be qualified and must know what they are doing. So, there must be something we don't understand.

 

[Covert Operative]

I dont know how this will work out according to the courts and local jurisdiction- here is the most detailed article I could find
Relative Of 8 Slaying Victims In Ohio Files Wrongful Death Lawsuit

It could be possible that this civil law suit is a "placeholder" and can not be successfully addressed until the criminal cases are settled.
I really don't know, just a best guess.
The attorneys who filed this civil suit sure seem to be qualified and must know what they are doing. So, there must be something we don't understand.

FW still may have assets that can be gotten if found guilty. They do not have to wait for the trials for a default judgment but they may. It would help their civil case against any remaining defendants to wait because they could use any info from the trials to their advantage. FW attorney was suppose to depose Lucy Wilck in January for the civil suit but canceled that.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

If the trust was made in 1993 to go to Male Wagners and the ones it is going to is on trial for murder and goes to prison, when FW pass away the boy’s inheritance would be for the victims right????

 

[Ann99]

FW still may have assets that can be gotten if found guilty. They do not have to wait for the trials for a default judgment but they may. It would help their civil case against any remaining defendants to wait because they could use any info from the trials to their advantage. FW attorney was suppose to depose Lucy Wilck in January for the civil suit but canceled that.

Did anyone google this name? what the?
I guess we cant talk about it/her/them here,
I will self report.

 

[Ann99]

If the trust was made in 1993 to go to Male Wagners and the ones it is going to is on trial for murder and goes to prison, when FW pass away the boy’s inheritance would be for the victims right????

I see your point, but Estate and Inheritance Law can be both simple and very complicated, especially when there is any dispute as to biological parents and/or extensive number of siblings, legal entanglements, murder for profit, etc.
Specific Trust's make it even more complicated.
So, it is nearly impossible to predict on this one.
I can't imagine RW or her other brother being silent, meaning not have lawyers represent them when it comes time to figure this all out.
It will be interesting.

 

[Covert Operative]

If the trust was made in 1993 to go to Male Wagners and the ones it is going to is on trial for murder and goes to prison, when FW pass away the boy’s inheritance would be for the victims right????

The trust could be amended and was several times it appears. I do not know if it was an irrevocable trust the whole time, I would doubt it, so she could change it. I would think that if it still names them as beneficiaries and TR won the civil suit then their parts would be awarded to the civil suit once she is deceased.

 

[Covert Operative]

Did anyone google this name? what the?
I guess we cant talk about it/her/them here,
I will self report.

Did anyone google this name? what the?
I guess we cant talk about it/her/them here,
I will self report.

Did anyone google this name? what the?
I guess we cant talk about it/her/them here,
I will self report.

I am not sure what you mean. She is listed in court view and was suppose to be deposed in the civil trial. There is information on her. She was the farm manager at
Flying W. It is not stated or indicated that she is involved in the murders.

 

[Ann99]

I am not sure what you mean. She is listed in court view and was suppose to be deposed in the civil trial. There is information on her. She was the farm manager at
Flying W. It is not stated or indicated that she is involved in the murders.

Maybe I am reading too much into this.
Read it before it is deleted. I did self report as above.

A Small-Town Official Was Ousted and Headed to Prison. Then He Vanished. - NewsAAA

Apparently this has been discussed a little in the past. Sorry, I missed it.
page 7.
I am seeing a wide range of very shady characters that seem to be around FW and residing in the Pike County area. Birds of afeather flock together.
What do you all think? Why would she have been a subject to depose?
Character witness?
Timing? Was this intent to depose before the arrest of her fugitive companion?
Sorry for being unaware of this discussion.

 

[sunshineray]

Wonder if she said those those things before or after the W4 arrests. If not, does she still speak as highly? Just curious. TIA

It was definitely after their arrests. that Oxygen Network show was filmed after W's arrests.

 

[Cool Cats]

G4 is the only one of the 4 that answered the civil suit. Does that mean he is the only one that thinks he may be found not guilty? Not answering could be construed as admitting guilt although not technically. A default judgment will be filed against the other 3 and granted. FW has at least one trust made in
Sept 1993 so most of her assets are probably protected and would be hard to get. Robin is the trustee of that irrevocable trust amended in Feb, 2019.

The other 3 can't afford attorneys, they will need different attorneys. Billy's attorney Collins said he would set Billy up with the right attorney to answer the civil suit and likely Fred paid for it or is having her attorney Owens take care of both her and Billy.

Maybe she will pay for the others but who knows. The Wagners are not able to go get help answering their civil law suit by driving over to legal aid like they otherwise could if not in jail.

Can't get a default judgement when there is no proof (through confession or trial) that they murdered 8 people. The plaintiff can't just tell the court that this person murdered my family and now owes me money without it being proved.

The plaintiff has to prove the Wagners murdered his family members.

This is why Tony is asking for a trial, he knows it has to be proved first. If found guilty at criminal trial then I don't know if a civil trial will still be nessessary.

All just my view on it

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I see your point, but Estate and Inheritance Law can be both simple and very complicated, especially when there is any dispute as to biological parents and/or extensive number of siblings, legal entanglements, murder for profit, etc.
Specific Trust's make it even more complicated.
So, it is nearly impossible to predict on this one.
I can't imagine RW or her other brother being silent, meaning not have lawyers represent them when it comes time to figure this all out.
It will be interesting.

But, FW ran out last year and made a new trust naming RW, (WHY)

 

[Johnny B Bad]

The other 3 can't afford attorneys, they will need different attorneys. Billy's attorney Collins said he would set Billy up with the right attorney to answer the civil suit and likely Fred paid for it or is having her attorney Owens take care of both her and Billy.

Maybe she will pay for the others but who knows. The Wagners are not able to go get help answering their civil law suit by driving over to legal aid like they otherwise could if not in jail.

Can't get a default judgement when there is no proof (through confession or trial) that they murdered 8 people. The plaintiff can't just tell the court that this person murdered my family and now owes me money without it being proved.

The plaintiff has to prove the Wagners murdered his family members.

This is why Tony is asking for a trial, he knows it has to be proved first. If found guilty at criminal trial then I don't know if a civil trial will still be nessessary.

All just my view on it

CC, civil suits are different and there is already enough proof for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George iv to lose , I was like you, when the Goldman’s suited OJ Simpson’s? JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

But, FW ran out last year and made a new trust naming RW, (WHY)

September 24, 1993 Robin was named successor on the Trust. Through out the years the Trust has been amended 5 times including February 2, 2019.

I was right, I was sure that FW would update her financial matters after all of them, including herself, were arrested.

Note that they were arrested November 13, 2018 and the updated/amended Trust was submitted on February 2, 2019 less than 3 months later.

With a Trust money is dolled out over time so you can't just get a lump sum and spend it all.

I think that FW had Billy and Jake and George receiving money from her Trust as an inheritance.

After the arrests she could see that her Trust was in jeopardy because if her family were found guilty - in a civil law suit - their Trust money would be frozen and siphoned off to the victim's families.

Thus I think she took Billy and Jake and George out of her Trust.

Let's say eveything gets resolved and the Wagners are all in the clear. In that case FW or RW could again update the Trust to again include Billy, Jake and George.

I don't know if FW would have included Angela in her Trust. Usually it's only your own family that you put in a Trust and an in-law like Angela would benefit only by being married to a family member.

My point of view

 

[Covert Operative]

The other 3 can't afford attorneys, they will need different attorneys. Billy's attorney Collins said he would set Billy up with the right attorney to answer the civil suit and likely Fred paid for it or is having her attorney Owens take care of both her and Billy.

Maybe she will pay for the others but who knows. The Wagners are not able to go get help answering their civil law suit by driving over to legal aid like they otherwise could if not in jail.

Can't get a default judgement when there is no proof (through confession or trial) that they murdered 8 people. The plaintiff can't just tell the court that this person murdered my family and now owes me money without it being proved.

The plaintiff has to prove the Wagners murdered his family members.

This is why Tony is asking for a trial, he knows it has to be proved first. If found guilty at criminal trial then I don't know if a civil trial will still be nessessary.

All just my view on it

If you do not reply to a civil suit in the required time frame, yes they can motion for a default judgement. They have already missed the deadline to respond so it does not matter what attorney they get at this point. They could have responded on their own behalf like RN did to at least meet the deadline but they did not. That is why the others met the time frame allowed to respond. It's similar to admitting guilt when you do not respond. A civil suit would be required to sue them monetarily regardless of whether they were found guilty or not guilty in the criminal trial. It was filed and they did not respond.

 

[Cool Cats]

CC, civil suits are different and there is already enough proof for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George iv to lose , I was like you, when the Goldman’s suited OJ Simpson’s? JMO

Yes. The Wagners could be aquited of their criminal cases and still be taken to trial civilly. A civil lawsuit requires a less higher standered to win than a criminal case does.

So yes there probably is enough evidence for Tony to win a civil suit but he would have to prove it by going to trial unless the Wagners admitted they owed him damages which they never would.

Only a judge and or jury can award damages unless it is settled out of court among both party's attorneys.

...2 Cents...

 

[Cool Cats]

If you do not reply to a civil suit in the required time frame, yes they can motion for a default judgement. They have already missed the deadline to respond so it does not matter what attorney they get at this point. They could have responded on their own behalf like RN did to at least meet the deadline but they did not. That is why the others met the time frame allowed to respond. It's similar to admitting guilt when you do not respond. A civil suit would be required to sue them monetarily regardless if they were found guilty in the criminal trial.

Your points are valid thank you.

They could have asked the court for an extention of the deadline and because they are in jail I think it would be granted.

I think this is more complicated than simply your credit card company suing you for $300 and you have to answer the lawsuit in writing within three or four weeks then if you don't a default judgement is entered in favor of the credit card company and they can freeze your bank account or garnish your wages.

If this, oddly, turns out to be the case it's not a foregone conclusion. An attorney can fight the default judgement such as "He needed an attorney to help him understand the lawsuit but he could not obtain one because he is or was incarcerated and without funds due to the incarceration."

"Her court papers turned up missing from her cell" or "She wasn't served directly" or "He was ill." Angela was going off-site for some type of medical care and Jake was too ill to go to court at one point.

 

[Covert Operative]

Yes. The Wagners could be aquited of their criminal cases and still be taken to trial civilly. A civil lawsuit requires a less higher standered to win than a criminal case does.

So yes there probably is enough evidence for Tony to win a civil suit but he would have to prove it by going to trial unless the Wagners admitted they owed him damages which they never would.

Only a judge and or jury can award damages unless it is settled out of court among both party's attorneys.

...2 Cents...

I think this is more complicated than simply your credit card company suing you for $300 and you have to answer the lawsuit in writing within three or four weeks then if you don't a default judgement is entered in favor of the credit card company and they can freeze your bank account or garnish your wages.

If this, oddly, turns out to be the case it's not a foregone conclusion. They can fight the default judgement if they get out of jail.

Also, they could have asked the court for an extention of the deadline and because they are in jail I think it would be granted.

They did not file an extension. There is a lot of information about not responding to criminal civil suits in Ohio and what happens if you do not, that can be found.

 

[Ann99]

But, FW ran out last year and made a new trust naming RW, (WHY)

My opinion is because FW knows the others are guilty and FW thinks she is saving her FWF.
And/or Robin has had a few stern and serious things to say to Mom.
Or, as has been theorized (although not seriously) FW plans to tell LE who the real killers are. HA!

 

[Covert Operative]

September 24, 1993 Robin was named successor on the Trust. Through out the years the Trust has been amended 5 times including February 2, 2019.

I was right, I was sure that FW would update her financial matters after all of them, including herself, were arrested.

Note that they were arrested November 13, 2018 and the updated/amended Trust was submitted on February 2, 2019 less than 3 months later.

With a Trust money is dolled out over time so you can't just get a lump sum and spend it all.

I think that FW had Billy and Jake and George receiving money from her Trust as an inheritance.

After the arrests she could see that her Trust was in jeopardy because if her family were found guilty - in a civil law suit - their Trust money would be frozen and siphoned off to the victim's families.

Thus I think she took Billy and Jake and George out of her Trust.

Let's say eveything gets resolved and the Wagners are all in the clear. In that case FW or RW could again update the Trust to again include Billy, Jake and George.

I don't know if FW would have included Angela in her Trust. Usually it's only your own family that you put in a Trust and an in-law like Angela would benefit only by being married to a family member.

My point of view

It is very hard to modify an irrevocable trust but not impossible under certain conditions. A will is a different story, it can be changed every day if someone wants to.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yes. The Wagners could be aquited of their criminal cases and still be taken to trial civilly. A civil lawsuit requires a less higher standered to win than a criminal case does.

So yes there probably is enough evidence for Tony to win a civil suit but he would have to prove it by going to trial unless the Wagners admitted they owed him damages which they never would.

Only a judge and or jury can award damages unless it is settled out of court among both party's attorneys.

...2 Cents...

CC, in a civil suits the Wagners can each be called to the witness stand and have to answer questions about the murders and in the criminal trials the Wagners do not have to testify against their self and each other, am I right by saying this???? JMO